Author Topic: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???  (Read 11239 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2016, 07:02:51 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2945
  • Tommy Points: 320
I'm not sure how irrational it is to point out that he's not very good at defense.

John Wall, for instance, is 6'4, can get to the hoop, and is very good at defense.

People are irrationally quick to throw IT under the bus because of his size. 

If he were 6'3'' with literally the exact same stats and performance people would be clamoring for him to be an MVP candidate.  He'd be considered untouchable.
It's not wrong to criticize him for his defense, it's wrong to criticize him for his height.  The point is that a 6'3" Isaiah Thomas that was just as bad at defense would be regarded way better despite being the exact same player

I'm not so sure about that. Your hypothetical argument is that IT could be just as bad at D if he was 6'3. That doesn't seem germaine to the conversation, as I don't hear anyone complaining about his defensive effort. I think they are commenting on his inability to defend bigger guards effectively. Everyone knows its b/c he is 5'9.

If I was 6'3 instead of 5'10, I may have been a good high school player, instead of an undersized power forward. My coach didn't care that I wasn't tall enough. He cared that he had someone on the court that could defend other forwards 6'3 or taller....

You have to admit that there are players that are 6'3" that are just as bad, or worse, than IT on defense.  Guys like Lillard, Kyrie, and James Harden are just awful.  What I'm saying is that a 6'3" IT that was just as bad at defense (like the players mentioned previously, who are around that height and just as bad, if not worse, than IT on defense) would be criticized less even if he was just as good at O and D

Obviously, if IT were taller he could be better at defense, but that's not really relevant.  The point I'm making is that he is thought less of for his height outside of the effect it has on his defense.  If he were 6'3", but had the exact same struggles  on defense (still bad against bigger guards, still the weak link in the defense), he wouldn't be criticized as heavily as he is now

Do you have anyone in mind? I know that James Harden gets crushed for his defensive problems. He also is a top 5 scorer in the NBA. IT is a top 10 scorer right now.

IT is not a top 10 scorer considering his efficiency and TSP

Lebron
Irving
Curry
Durant
Thompson
RW
Harden
Anthony davis
Cousins
Derozan
Butler
Wall
Leonard

for example are all better

You are right. Those guys are all better.

My point was "IT is a top 10 scorer right now". He is ranked 8th with Jimmy Butler at 26ppg.

You argued my point by talking about something unrelated to my point.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2016, 07:05:30 PM »

Offline Chris22

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5081
  • Tommy Points: 460
We have plenty of guards, we need bigs.
So trade IT for a good big while his value is high.
Maybe one of Philly's bigs.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #77 on: December 08, 2016, 07:19:30 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1691
  • Tommy Points: 199
We have plenty of guards, we need bigs.
So trade IT for a good big while his value is high.
Maybe one of Philly's bigs.
Yes!  Except not one of Philly's bigs.  They stink.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2016, 07:23:01 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Tommy Points: 501
We have plenty of guards, we need bigs.
So trade IT for a good big while his value is high.
Maybe one of Philly's bigs.

One of their bigs not named Noel or Okafor.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2016, 07:45:45 PM »

Offline mctyson

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
  • Tommy Points: 372
My thing with IT is that if we aren't going to resign him (Which we CLEARLY are not) we should ship him to a team that would and get some assets in return.

and you know this how?

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2016, 07:48:16 PM »

Offline Rosco917

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6108
  • Tommy Points: 559
It's not like we're condemning IT to death here.

We're asking him to possibly come off the bench, and be a star doing it! He'll immediately be in the running for 6th man of the year. His position on the C's will be greatly solidified, and possibly for years to come.

I don't want to trade IT, (unless the trade is too good to pass up, like everyone else) I want to utilize everyone as best as we can, in order to win.

I think we all respect, and really enjoy his game. If we had no other option at PG (like the 76ers) this conversation would be over.



   


Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2016, 07:49:26 PM »

Offline mctyson

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
  • Tommy Points: 372
we're only going to go so far with IT.

This is such a meaningless statement.  How far is 'so far?'  Why will we only get there?  And why 'with IT?'

The guy is a great basketball player.  He fits a major need on this team, which is someone who can score in the 4th quarter, with the game on the line.

I would like to see him facilitate a bit more, instead of looking for his shot, but honestly he is the least of our concerns.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2016, 07:51:00 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1691
  • Tommy Points: 199
My thing with IT is that if we aren't going to resign him (Which we CLEARLY are not) we should ship him to a team that would and get some assets in return.

and you know this how?
You've got IT and Horford for $60M. Now explain what you're gonna do with the other 35M to bring home banner 18.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2016, 07:51:33 PM »

Offline NHCelticsFan

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 403
  • Tommy Points: 179
Would love to somehow end up with Hayward if we traded IT. Maybe trade IT to a team with young promising players (Lakers?) That could be shipped to Utah in a package that Nets us GH.

I am very interested in what IT's value might be around the league.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #84 on: December 08, 2016, 07:58:03 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
My thing with IT is that if we aren't going to resign him (Which we CLEARLY are not) we should ship him to a team that would and get some assets in return.

and you know this how?
You've got IT and Horford for $60M. Now explain what you're gonna do with the other 35M to bring home banner 18.
If we move the Nets pick for a star you can use Bird rights to sign Isaiah right?

Also, lets say we  keep the Nets pick and get say... Harry Giles and his knee turns out to be fine and he wins ROY and Brown looks terrific. Then you have a squad of Rozier-Brown-Crowder-Horford.

You then use Bird rights to keep 2/3 of Isaiah Marcus and Avery.

I think both those situations could see you contend for a ring with IT.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2016, 07:59:01 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257
we're only going to go so far with IT.

This is such a meaningless statement.  How far is 'so far?'  Why will we only get there?  And why 'with IT?'

The guy is a great basketball player.  He fits a major need on this team, which is someone who can score in the 4th quarter, with the game on the line.

I would like to see him facilitate a bit more, instead of looking for his shot, but honestly he is the least of our concerns.

Not sure if you heard about it his, but the C's only hang league championchip banners. 

The idea is that we aren't winning the title with him as starting pg. it doesn't matter much when we flame out.  The why is clear.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #86 on: December 08, 2016, 08:02:54 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1691
  • Tommy Points: 199
My thing with IT is that if we aren't going to resign him (Which we CLEARLY are not) we should ship him to a team that would and get some assets in return.

and you know this how?
You've got IT and Horford for $60M. Now explain what you're gonna do with the other 35M to bring home banner 18.
If we move the Nets pick for a star you can use Bird rights to sign Isaiah right?

Also, lets say we  keep the Nets pick and get say... Harry Giles and his knee turns out to be fine and he wins ROY and Brown looks terrific. Then you have a squad of Rozier-Brown-Crowder-Horford.

You then use Bird rights to keep 2/3 of Isaiah Marcus and Avery.

I think both those situations could see you contend for a ring with IT.
Bird rights don't give you cap relief.  You still have to pay the man and the salary cap still applies.  The problem is allocating 65% of your money to IT and Horford.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #87 on: December 08, 2016, 08:05:13 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
not looking to trade IT, just move him to the 6th man role.  he'd be great in that role.  problem is, he's currently our best option at PG.  one game without him didn't change that regardless of how Rozier and Smart played without IT available.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #88 on: December 08, 2016, 08:08:43 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
My thing with IT is that if we aren't going to resign him (Which we CLEARLY are not) we should ship him to a team that would and get some assets in return.

and you know this how?
You've got IT and Horford for $60M. Now explain what you're gonna do with the other 35M to bring home banner 18.
If we move the Nets pick for a star you can use Bird rights to sign Isaiah right?

Also, lets say we  keep the Nets pick and get say... Harry Giles and his knee turns out to be fine and he wins ROY and Brown looks terrific. Then you have a squad of Rozier-Brown-Crowder-Horford.

You then use Bird rights to keep 2/3 of Isaiah Marcus and Avery.

I think both those situations could see you contend for a ring with IT.
Bird rights don't give you cap relief.  You still have to pay the man and the salary cap still applies.  The problem is allocating 65% of your money to IT and Horford.
Im aware. I absolutely agree that we must have a championship core in place before we give Isaiah 25 mil. However, if we feel we have the core in place before it comes time to renegotiate Isaiahs contract then we can go over the cap to bring him back.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Really People... 1 Game And It's Already "Trade IT"???
« Reply #89 on: December 08, 2016, 08:09:29 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36703
  • Tommy Points: 2951
I'm telling ya

He ll sulk if you make him come off the bench .  Even if he gets equal minutes....or more .he is gonna be hurt.

His head is a little bigger than when he arrived.