Author Topic: Smart gets flop warning from NBA  (Read 9418 times)

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Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2016, 02:58:22 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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How much is Smart actually helping the Celtics?  Can't score, can't shoot and getting rep for being a flopper...

MikeB

Well ...

He's not getting as many steals, his rebounding is a little bit worse, his shooting isn't any better, he's getting to the rim less, his free throw rate is less ...

Also, his defensive rating stinks.

I guess the answer is that he's providing ballhandling and playmaking on the second unit.  His assist rate is significantly higher than it was last year.  But his point per-36 are down despite his usage rate being higher.

Combine that with the fact that his defense has not been up to his previous standard.

So, yeah, Smart seems to be stagnating.  It's pretty disappointing.
Love how people ignore his defensive skills.  C'mon.

Is it ignoring his defensive skills to note that his defense is measurably worse than it has been in the past, on top of everything else?

He's an OK backup ball-handler and defensive guard.  That's all.

You are just wrong Phosita.  His DRPM is actually higher regarding the ranking of PG's.

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1

Smitty77

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2016, 03:10:49 PM »

Offline walker834

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I've just noticed certain things is all. 

Also on marcus most great defenders study offensive player movements.  A lot of marcus's flops look that odd because what the offensive player is doing is that odd and out of place.

offensive players jump into their man, lead with their knee, are allowed to drive down the  lane like a mack truck, swing their elbows etc.  A lot of the time marcus is just trying to get out of the way and selling it.

They aren't addressing the real issues.  The  nba is just as biased and wrong.

This stuff has been going on for years and it's the nba's fault for letting it get to this point.  I've noticed it for years.  They let players do things because there is more money in it and then they are blaming marcus.

It's one thing if they really are trying to clean it up but I'll believe it when i see it.

They are the ones who created this mess in the first place.

It's no different than the steroid era in  baseball.  Were they concerned about it when espn was hyping it up and it was making them lots of money at the expense of people who understand playing the game fair? nope...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 03:16:09 PM by walker834 »

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2016, 03:20:38 PM »

Offline walker834

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you get flops out of the game that is a start where i hope they start calling the offensive stuff and it cleans up the game but I'll believe it when i see it.  I like to think they are doing that and people are genuinally good and know what's going on but I'll  believe it when i see it.

Still Marcus is supposed to take an elbow to the face now and if he gets hurt that's ok? The karma in that houston game was funny is all.  They called it but he still had to get as close to taking an elbow to teh face as he possibly could.

why should marcus have to take an elbow to the face?

Marcus came as close as possible as getting a flush one as he could without hurting himself and still had to sell it.

Be a man Marcus.  Take an elbow to the face.  lol.

I like to think they truly are trying to clean up the game but I'll believe it when I see it.  just a weird way to go about it is all.

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2016, 03:24:03 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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"Boston Celtics guard Marcus Smart received a flop warning from the NBA for his exaggerated dive at the end of Monday's 107-106 loss to the Houston Rockets. As Al Horford's last-second layup attempt rolled off the rim, Smart embellished contact chasing a rebound in hopes of a whistle. Smart is only the fourth player to receive a warning this year."

How much is Smart actually helping the Celtics?  Can't score, can't shoot and getting rep for being a flopper...

MikeB

I have a hard time with Marcus. Yes, he's a very good defender, but it seems like most, if not all, of his defensive contributions are negated by his generally subpar offensive output. It's great that his ballhandling and his assist rate have improved, but his shooting and overall offensive game are sorely lacking.

And the fact that he's bringing the worst of soccer to the NBA isn't cool, either.

Then WHY does he usually have the best of one of the best +/- on our team EVERY game???????????

Smitty77

He's played in 18 games this season; in 10 of them he finished in the positive, in 7 of them he finished in the negative, and in 1 game he was a 0. So I don't think he has as many great +/- performances as you're thinking.
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Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2016, 03:30:26 PM »

Offline walker834

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It's no different when the nfl  is telling fans its bad to beat your wife in commercials when it's their own mess.  I didn't need to learn those things. 

The media in general talks about this stuff constantly when it's their own mess.  It's really them that doesn't get it either.

It's like watching jerry jones get to work seriously.  I like to think some of these people are genuinally trying to clean up the game but like i say I'll believe it when i see it.

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2016, 03:36:42 PM »

Offline walker834

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marcus is a good dude and one of the good guys to my knowledge. he needs to be aware there is alot of bs out there though.  probably is anyways. if people genuinally care about other people thats one thing. 

its a competitive sport.  marcus is supposed to take an elbow to the face now apparently.  hopefully the call it and clean up the real issues.

When offensive players are jumping into their man etc, being allowed to be physical, use peds etc, and defenders cant combat that though and play defense it's a bit absurd though.

What is marcus supposed to do take a knee to the nuts and not have it be called?  because that's how it's been.


defenders like marcus have to take the brunt of it?  That doesn't seem fair
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 03:41:53 PM by walker834 »

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2016, 03:37:05 PM »

Offline clover

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"Boston Celtics guard Marcus Smart received a flop warning from the NBA for his exaggerated dive at the end of Monday's 107-106 loss to the Houston Rockets. As Al Horford's last-second layup attempt rolled off the rim, Smart embellished contact chasing a rebound in hopes of a whistle. Smart is only the fourth player to receive a warning this year."

How much is Smart actually helping the Celtics?  Can't score, can't shoot and getting rep for being a flopper...

MikeB

I have a hard time with Marcus. Yes, he's a very good defender, but it seems like most, if not all, of his defensive contributions are negated by his generally subpar offensive output. It's great that his ballhandling and his assist rate have improved, but his shooting and overall offensive game are sorely lacking.

And the fact that he's bringing the worst of soccer to the NBA isn't cool, either.

Then WHY does he usually have the best of one of the best +/- on our team EVERY game???????????

Smitty77

He's played in 18 games this season; in 10 of them he finished in the positive, in 7 of them he finished in the negative, and in 1 game he was a 0. So I don't think he has as many great +/- performances as you're thinking.

Rotation Celtics players with a better net rating than Smart, so far on the year, from the best on down:

JC
AH
TR
TZ
KO
AJ
IT

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2016, 03:46:37 PM »

Offline walker834

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I just question certain things and have noticed certain things is all since trump got in office.  I was reading an injury report where a team is keeping a player out 6-8 weeks on an injury that has never taken more than 2-3 weeks and that player has never been worse for wear.  I can understand being cautious and wanting to get things right.  But it reminds me of roger gooddell in ways.  It's one thing if they actually are trying to do that vs doing things at the sacrifice of teammates, fans, that player too for no reason whatsoever.

I can get that where some of these guys are rushed back end up getting reinjured and being cautious is good but at the same time some of it is just absurd is all and they aren't addressing the real issues.

I hope they do get it right.  But it's their own fault in the first place. 

If people were more understanding and less selfish this stuff wouldn't even be.

I just made a post about espn criticizing marcus's flops and TO was on there.  I knew this was coming.  I have no issue with these people but they aren't exactly the brightest tacks in the shed themselves.

I've noticed is all since trump got elected people get a sense of power and start attacking people who have nothing to do with it too.

Understanding is one thing.  Being anything but that is something else.

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2016, 03:54:44 PM »

Offline Denis998

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Should a fine be given even if the play wasn't called a foul? If a flop is defined as drawing a foul by exaggerating contact on a play; if no foul is called is it still a flop, or just a randomly awkward fall to the ground?

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2016, 03:55:02 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I just question certain things and have noticed certain things is all since trump got in office.  I was reading an injury report where a team is keeping a player out 6-8 weeks on an injury that has never taken more than 2-3 weeks and that player has never been worse for wear.  I can understand being cautious and wanting to get things right.  But it reminds me of roger gooddell in ways.  It's one thing if they actually are trying to do that vs doing things at the sacrifice of teammates, fans, that player too for no reason whatsoever.

I can get that where some of these guys are rushed back end up getting reinjured and being cautious is good but at the same time some of it is just absurd is all and they aren't addressing the real issues.

I hope they do get it right.  But it's their own fault in the first place. 

If people were more understanding and less selfish this stuff wouldn't even be.

I just made a post about espn criticizing marcus's flops and TO was on there.  I knew this was coming.  I have no issue with these people but they aren't exactly the brightest tacks in the shed themselves.

I've noticed is all since trump got elected people get a sense of power and start attacking people who have nothing to do with it too.

Understanding is one thing.  Being anything but that is something else.
Really Trump has made people this way. I guess you have not watch any Stephen A Smith or his blow hard buddy now on Fox Sports. They were the start and then you have people like me writing stuff that I should not but I am because deep down I wanted to be Stephen A Smith. Life in the fastlane of the instant news world. No more waiting to the Sunday Sport Section every hour is that today in the information world.
Smart will figure it out and over come as well. Go Celtics!!!
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Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2016, 03:58:11 PM »

Offline walker834

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I just hope they call it both ways.  MArcus got two quick fouls on harden.  flopped.  Then took an elbow to the face and sold it and got a call that game.

defenders should be allowed to be physical if offensive players are.

there is nothing in the rules that says you can't play physical defense.

They took handchecking out of the game that's about it.  You still should be allowed to body people up.

Pretty soon they won't even allow that where offensive players can push all they want.

They pretty much allow it anyways why players flop.

Offensive players can use their arms to create separation but defenders can't.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 04:06:39 PM by walker834 »

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2016, 04:13:16 PM »

Offline walker834

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good defense is with your hands up and mirroring the player with your body.  If an offensive players uses his arms to create separation.  Or uses movements to do that ie certain crab dribbles and hops ie travels, elbows etc.  They need to get both out of the game. palming etc.  All of it. 

defenders have the right to go for the steal but aren't allowed to reach in.  That stuff is never called anymore either.  Reach in's are allowed a lot of the time.  I shouldn't say that though because then defenders might as well not even be there the way some games are called.

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2016, 04:13:49 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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How much is Smart actually helping the Celtics?  Can't score, can't shoot and getting rep for being a flopper...

MikeB

Well ...

He's not getting as many steals, his rebounding is a little bit worse, his shooting isn't any better, he's getting to the rim less, his free throw rate is less ...

Also, his defensive rating stinks.

I guess the answer is that he's providing ballhandling and playmaking on the second unit.  His assist rate is significantly higher than it was last year.  But his point per-36 are down despite his usage rate being higher.

Combine that with the fact that his defense has not been up to his previous standard.

So, yeah, Smart seems to be stagnating.  It's pretty disappointing.
Love how people ignore his defensive skills.  C'mon.

Is it ignoring his defensive skills to note that his defense is measurably worse than it has been in the past, on top of everything else?

He's an OK backup ball-handler and defensive guard.  That's all.

You are just wrong Phosita.  His DRPM is actually higher regarding the ranking of PG's.

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1

Smitty77

It's interesting that his DRPM is that high (compared to other point guards) given that his Defensive Rating is way up and his steal rate is way down.

You're right to point out his DRPM ranking among point guards.  That's a mark in his favor, though RPM overall has him ranked very low because of how bad he is offensively.


Generally, what I see with Marcus is that he is as bad as ever on offense, apart from his passing.  While his defense is still good, especially for his size, he isn't the playmaker on that end he has been in the past.  Part of that dropoff may indeed be due to the fact he's been asked to guard larger players.

In any case, it seems fairly evident he isn't up to the standard we hoped he would be at this point.  He is a nice defensive backup, but he's a decided negative offensively and hasn't shown much development as a scorer.

Please note I'm as disappointed as anybody to reach that conclusion.  I had high hopes for Marcus as recently as a year ago.  It's not hard to find old posts of mine opining that he could become a quality starter.
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Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2016, 04:23:23 PM »

Offline walker834

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I see it a lot in the nba where a defender has position with his arms raised and the offensive player drives right into him and the defender is called for a foul. They have no other  option except to just get out of the way.  The defender is just standing there but doesnt fall down and just is moved that way because the offender is allowed to just drive into them like that.

There actually was no foul there but a foul was called because there was contact which was actually caused by the offensive player.

If the defender flops and tries to get a charge call its a beter defensive tactic then just standing there and having an offensive player plow into you and getting called for a foul.

KO in particular i see this happen to a lot. He's 7 feet and not a shot blocker and its impossible for him to get out of the way. He could fall over backwards and flop but probably doesnt want to do that.

You have to have quick feet and be smaller in todays nba to defend and even that is difficult.. Why we see big guys playing outside more.

Certain players are good at drawing charges because they have quick feet.

Re: Smart gets flop warning from NBA
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2016, 04:30:04 PM »

Offline walker834

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There's no such thing as physical defense in todays nba.  Marcus is about as good as it gets.

It's totally fine for offensive players to plow into people though who didn't even commit a foul and get called for it because there was contact.

Bill Russell used to contort his body and do all sorts of stuff.  Marcus does a lot of weird stuff too.