Author Topic: Guess the Players  (Read 6173 times)

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Re: Guess the Players
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2016, 06:26:46 PM »

Offline ssspence

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It's Wilson Chandler with the tat -- right?
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Re: Guess the Players
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2016, 06:30:14 PM »

Offline bdm860

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So now I'm left wondering why Wilson Chandler would choose to have a picture of Lloyd Daniels tatted on his neck.




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Re: Guess the Players
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2016, 06:32:35 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's Wilson Chandler with the tat -- right?

Indeed it is.

He's putting up 18 and 7 in 30 minutes per game this season.  Really glad to see him bounce back after missing virtually all of last season.
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Re: Guess the Players
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2016, 07:12:40 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Back to Giannis; the numbers he has been putting up so far this year are ridiculous.  Since they started keeping block and steal stats in the 1974 season, nobody has ever averaged at least 20PPG, 8RPG, 5APG, 2BPG, and 2SPG for a season.  So far on this young season, Freak is averaging 22.4 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.8 assists, 2.2 steals and 2.2 blocks per game.

He turned 22 years old yesterday.

Kelly Olynyk says hello.

I'd rather have Kelly than Giannis. He's more of a finished product.
TP.  You gave me a really good laugh. 

Re: Guess the Players
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2016, 07:38:13 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Here is one.  Both are active.

These are career stats (not per 36 since the mpg are fairly close)

10.7 p, 6.0 r, 1.1 a, 0.7 s, 0.4 b, 1.0 t, 47.6 2PT, 37.0 3PT, 77.0 FT - 24.1 mpg

8.0 p, 3.4 r, 1.3 a, 1.0 s, 0.3 b, 0.07 t, 51.4 2PT, 32.9 3PT, 77.9 FT - 21.4 mpg

Player B is Jae Crowder

Player A I'm thinking must be a PF?  Maybe a SF

Probably a journeyman. Ilyasova? Not the defender Jae is though.


EDIT: Yup.  http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilyaser01.html

It is pretty pointless to use Jae's career stats because they include 2 seasons where he hardly played and do not represent the player he is now. Conversely it is dumb to use a player's career stats that peaked years ago and has not been the same player statistically in several years.

This was put in another thread somewhere and for these reasons it is really misleading and bad. I would hope we can put this to bed because it is about as textbook manipulation of stats as you can get.
They both played very similar minutes per game in their career. It isn't a comparison of a guy playing 30 minutes vs. a guy playing 25 minutes.  And for the record between the two of them the career low for mpg was in fact 14.7 by Ilyasova in his rookie year.

But since you are crying about it, here are their totals for the year thus far this year.

12.5 p, 6.1 r, 1.5 a, 0.5 s, 0.2 b, 1.2 t, 51.3 2PT, 36.7 3PT, 80.4 FT - 26.1 mpg (Ilyasova)

13.0 p, 4.7 r, 2.5 a, 1.1 s, 0.4 b, 1.2 t, 59.3 2PT, 40.0 3PT, 93.8 FT - 29.6 mpg (Crowder)

Now if we look at Ilyasova just since he has been in Philly (and take out the OKC games) his numbers increase a bit.

13.7 p, 6.2 r, 1.7 a, 0.4 s, 0.2 b, 1.2 t, 50.5 2PT, 38.1 3PT, 80.4 FT - 26.9 mpg


This came up in a prior thread because someone said Saric couldn't earn his minutes when all he had to do was beat out Ilyasova which is different than Brown who had to beat out Crowder.  I posted those numbers to indicate there wasn't much difference between Ersan and Jae at least statistically.  Now Jae is a better defender, but he isn't All NBA type defender either.

I also think this is relevant because I think it shows that Jae is pretty easily replaceable.  He isn't a guy that Boston has to have and he should be among the names being brandied about in trade discussions.

Are you really pretending your career comparison wasn't super misleading? Jae Crowder has played 4.2 seasons. 2 of those seasons he played an average of 16.5 minutes and averaged less than 5 points and 2.5 rebounds. Since his role has changed and he has developed he has played an average of 30 minutes a game and averaged 13.5 points and close to 5 rebounds (not to mention other improvements across the board). As I have said to you in numerous threads, you are smart enough to know that this kind of stuff is misleading. Including Crowder's career stats is going to misrepresent him and drag down his average, so why do it? Make your points without this kind of nonsense. It misleads people that are not paying attention or don't have time to look up how you derive your numbers.

Ilasova is misleading in the opposite direction. While it is true he had one season of really low playing time he now has 7.2 seasons of playing time. So 1 season of  7.2 limited minutes drags down his career stats way less than 2 seasons do of 4.2 seasons for Crowder. (This is pretty basic stuff). Also aside from a small sample size so far in Philly all his best seasons were on the Bucks 2-3 years ago and one year he averaged almost 9 rebounds. Approaching 30 and with some decent injuries under his belt it is hard to believe his best days are not behind him. 

Now if you want to make the point that Ilasova for 19 games has put up slightly better numbers in Philly than he has for the past several years across multiple teams, sure go for it. However, as Phosita acutely pointed out even at this absolute apex of these 19 games Ilasova's numbers are inferior in just about every way to Crowders. Finally lastly, why would we omit Ilasova's 3 games with less minutes on OKC but not omit games where Crowder left 14 minutes in do to injury or his first 2 games back from injury when he had season lows in points?

The bottom line is that Ainge would hang up in a half a second if Ilasova was offered for Crowder and I really highly doubt that you don't realize that. So why do you pollute the board with misleading stats like this?

It's seriously terrible.
By the way, one of the reasons I find this stuff particularly annoying is that he pollutes the board with this pro philly anti-boston and misrepresents stats to do so and has been doing this routine for years. For those that weren't around here is Moranis comparing Crowder and Zeller to philadelphia role players similarly a few years back:

"You aren't going to win if you are starting and playing bench players huge minutes.  My point in this thread has been merely there isn't much difference between guys like Zeller and Crowder and guys like Sims and Thompson."

So over the years we have gone from Moranis saying Crowder is similar to Henry Sims (now out of the league) and Hollis Thompson (currently averaging 6.5 points and 3 rebounds and playing less minutes than his rookie year). 

I am happy to keep calling out this kind of stuff.

Re: Guess the Players
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2016, 08:35:43 PM »

Offline moiso

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Here is one.  Both are active.

These are career stats (not per 36 since the mpg are fairly close)

10.7 p, 6.0 r, 1.1 a, 0.7 s, 0.4 b, 1.0 t, 47.6 2PT, 37.0 3PT, 77.0 FT - 24.1 mpg

8.0 p, 3.4 r, 1.3 a, 1.0 s, 0.3 b, 0.07 t, 51.4 2PT, 32.9 3PT, 77.9 FT - 21.4 mpg

Player B is Jae Crowder

Player A I'm thinking must be a PF?  Maybe a SF

Probably a journeyman. Ilyasova? Not the defender Jae is though.


EDIT: Yup.  http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilyaser01.html

It is pretty pointless to use Jae's career stats because they include 2 seasons where he hardly played and do not represent the player he is now. Conversely it is dumb to use a player's career stats that peaked years ago and has not been the same player statistically in several years.

This was put in another thread somewhere and for these reasons it is really misleading and bad. I would hope we can put this to bed because it is about as textbook manipulation of stats as you can get.
They both played very similar minutes per game in their career. It isn't a comparison of a guy playing 30 minutes vs. a guy playing 25 minutes.  And for the record between the two of them the career low for mpg was in fact 14.7 by Ilyasova in his rookie year.

But since you are crying about it, here are their totals for the year thus far this year.

12.5 p, 6.1 r, 1.5 a, 0.5 s, 0.2 b, 1.2 t, 51.3 2PT, 36.7 3PT, 80.4 FT - 26.1 mpg (Ilyasova)

13.0 p, 4.7 r, 2.5 a, 1.1 s, 0.4 b, 1.2 t, 59.3 2PT, 40.0 3PT, 93.8 FT - 29.6 mpg (Crowder)

Now if we look at Ilyasova just since he has been in Philly (and take out the OKC games) his numbers increase a bit.

13.7 p, 6.2 r, 1.7 a, 0.4 s, 0.2 b, 1.2 t, 50.5 2PT, 38.1 3PT, 80.4 FT - 26.9 mpg


This came up in a prior thread because someone said Saric couldn't earn his minutes when all he had to do was beat out Ilyasova which is different than Brown who had to beat out Crowder.  I posted those numbers to indicate there wasn't much difference between Ersan and Jae at least statistically.  Now Jae is a better defender, but he isn't All NBA type defender either.

I also think this is relevant because I think it shows that Jae is pretty easily replaceable.  He isn't a guy that Boston has to have and he should be among the names being brandied about in trade discussions.

Are you really pretending your career comparison wasn't super misleading? Jae Crowder has played 4.2 seasons. 2 of those seasons he played an average of 16.5 minutes and averaged less than 5 points and 2.5 rebounds. Since his role has changed and he has developed he has played an average of 30 minutes a game and averaged 13.5 points and close to 5 rebounds (not to mention other improvements across the board). As I have said to you in numerous threads, you are smart enough to know that this kind of stuff is misleading. Including Crowder's career stats is going to misrepresent him and drag down his average, so why do it? Make your points without this kind of nonsense. It misleads people that are not paying attention or don't have time to look up how you derive your numbers.

Ilasova is misleading in the opposite direction. While it is true he had one season of really low playing time he now has 7.2 seasons of playing time. So 1 season of  7.2 limited minutes drags down his career stats way less than 2 seasons do of 4.2 seasons for Crowder. (This is pretty basic stuff). Also aside from a small sample size so far in Philly all his best seasons were on the Bucks 2-3 years ago and one year he averaged almost 9 rebounds. Approaching 30 and with some decent injuries under his belt it is hard to believe his best days are not behind him. 

Now if you want to make the point that Ilasova for 19 games has put up slightly better numbers in Philly than he has for the past several years across multiple teams, sure go for it. However, as Phosita acutely pointed out even at this absolute apex of these 19 games Ilasova's numbers are inferior in just about every way to Crowders. Finally lastly, why would we omit Ilasova's 3 games with less minutes on OKC but not omit games where Crowder left 14 minutes in do to injury or his first 2 games back from injury when he had season lows in points?

The bottom line is that Ainge would hang up in a half a second if Ilasova was offered for Crowder and I really highly doubt that you don't realize that. So why do you pollute the board with misleading stats like this?

It's seriously terrible.
By the way, one of the reasons I find this stuff particularly annoying is that he pollutes the board with this pro philly anti-boston and misrepresents stats to do so and has been doing this routine for years. For those that weren't around here is Moranis comparing Crowder and Zeller to philadelphia role players similarly a few years back:

"You aren't going to win if you are starting and playing bench players huge minutes.  My point in this thread has been merely there isn't much difference between guys like Zeller and Crowder and guys like Sims and Thompson."

So over the years we have gone from Moranis saying Crowder is similar to Henry Sims (now out of the league) and Hollis Thompson (currently averaging 6.5 points and 3 rebounds and playing less minutes than his rookie year). 

I am happy to keep calling out this kind of stuff.
TP.  But I should point out that the guy that's out of the league would take up less cap space.

Re: Guess the Players
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2016, 08:25:42 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Here is one.  Both are active.

These are career stats (not per 36 since the mpg are fairly close)

10.7 p, 6.0 r, 1.1 a, 0.7 s, 0.4 b, 1.0 t, 47.6 2PT, 37.0 3PT, 77.0 FT - 24.1 mpg

8.0 p, 3.4 r, 1.3 a, 1.0 s, 0.3 b, 0.07 t, 51.4 2PT, 32.9 3PT, 77.9 FT - 21.4 mpg

Player B is Jae Crowder

Player A I'm thinking must be a PF?  Maybe a SF

Probably a journeyman. Ilyasova? Not the defender Jae is though.


EDIT: Yup.  http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilyaser01.html

It is pretty pointless to use Jae's career stats because they include 2 seasons where he hardly played and do not represent the player he is now. Conversely it is dumb to use a player's career stats that peaked years ago and has not been the same player statistically in several years.

This was put in another thread somewhere and for these reasons it is really misleading and bad. I would hope we can put this to bed because it is about as textbook manipulation of stats as you can get.
They both played very similar minutes per game in their career. It isn't a comparison of a guy playing 30 minutes vs. a guy playing 25 minutes.  And for the record between the two of them the career low for mpg was in fact 14.7 by Ilyasova in his rookie year.

But since you are crying about it, here are their totals for the year thus far this year.

12.5 p, 6.1 r, 1.5 a, 0.5 s, 0.2 b, 1.2 t, 51.3 2PT, 36.7 3PT, 80.4 FT - 26.1 mpg (Ilyasova)

13.0 p, 4.7 r, 2.5 a, 1.1 s, 0.4 b, 1.2 t, 59.3 2PT, 40.0 3PT, 93.8 FT - 29.6 mpg (Crowder)

Now if we look at Ilyasova just since he has been in Philly (and take out the OKC games) his numbers increase a bit.

13.7 p, 6.2 r, 1.7 a, 0.4 s, 0.2 b, 1.2 t, 50.5 2PT, 38.1 3PT, 80.4 FT - 26.9 mpg


This came up in a prior thread because someone said Saric couldn't earn his minutes when all he had to do was beat out Ilyasova which is different than Brown who had to beat out Crowder.  I posted those numbers to indicate there wasn't much difference between Ersan and Jae at least statistically.  Now Jae is a better defender, but he isn't All NBA type defender either.

I also think this is relevant because I think it shows that Jae is pretty easily replaceable.  He isn't a guy that Boston has to have and he should be among the names being brandied about in trade discussions.

Are you really pretending your career comparison wasn't super misleading? Jae Crowder has played 4.2 seasons. 2 of those seasons he played an average of 16.5 minutes and averaged less than 5 points and 2.5 rebounds. Since his role has changed and he has developed he has played an average of 30 minutes a game and averaged 13.5 points and close to 5 rebounds (not to mention other improvements across the board). As I have said to you in numerous threads, you are smart enough to know that this kind of stuff is misleading. Including Crowder's career stats is going to misrepresent him and drag down his average, so why do it? Make your points without this kind of nonsense. It misleads people that are not paying attention or don't have time to look up how you derive your numbers.

Ilasova is misleading in the opposite direction. While it is true he had one season of really low playing time he now has 7.2 seasons of playing time. So 1 season of  7.2 limited minutes drags down his career stats way less than 2 seasons do of 4.2 seasons for Crowder. (This is pretty basic stuff). Also aside from a small sample size so far in Philly all his best seasons were on the Bucks 2-3 years ago and one year he averaged almost 9 rebounds. Approaching 30 and with some decent injuries under his belt it is hard to believe his best days are not behind him. 

Now if you want to make the point that Ilasova for 19 games has put up slightly better numbers in Philly than he has for the past several years across multiple teams, sure go for it. However, as Phosita acutely pointed out even at this absolute apex of these 19 games Ilasova's numbers are inferior in just about every way to Crowders. Finally lastly, why would we omit Ilasova's 3 games with less minutes on OKC but not omit games where Crowder left 14 minutes in do to injury or his first 2 games back from injury when he had season lows in points?

The bottom line is that Ainge would hang up in a half a second if Ilasova was offered for Crowder and I really highly doubt that you don't realize that. So why do you pollute the board with misleading stats like this?

It's seriously terrible.
The career difference in mpg is 3 per game between Ilyasova and Crowder.  This isn't some large gap.  And for the record Crowder's per 36 aren't that much different in any of his seasons.  Some seasons he scores more, some seasons rebounds more, some seasons assists more, etc.  He is a better shooter more recently than early in his career (so his pp36 are better) and he is obviously a better defender. 

As for Pho's point, RB% is to Ilyasova both in career and this year and by a pretty wide margin.  Slight edge to Crowder in AST%.  Edge to Crowder in STL% but they are even in BLK%.  Ilyasova turns the ball over less and has a higher usage.  TS% edge to Crowder (both in career and this year) though Crowder has taken a major leap on 3PT% this year so that may come back down as the season goes on which would significantly affect the TS%.  Ilyasova gets to the line a lot more than Crowder so far this year though their careers are about the same (slight edge to Ilyasova).

Crowder is a better defender which doesn't show up in the stats, but I think this board in general overrates his defense a great deal.  He isn't even Smart let alone Bradley in that regard.  Crowder is easily upgradable unlike 3 positions on the team and I've seen a lot in Brown which leads me to believe that maybe even as early as next year Brown will be the starting SF.  I love Crowder's intensity and passion, but the skill level just isn't there to be a starting SF on a championship contender (without being like a JR Smith type guy in Cleveland - i.e. a bit guy that starts but isn't really a reason for a team winning).  That doesn't mean Boston should just give him away, especially with his great contract, but at the same time he shouldn't be a guy that people just don't want to give up in a trade. 
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