Author Topic: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake  (Read 5271 times)

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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 02:26:18 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?

Define win. A win against the 76ers? Check. Playoff wins against the Cavs/Warriors? No check.

I think Danny is doing a masterful job of maneuvering around the common strategies of stinking for talent and going all in for a championship today. This while having multiple opportunities of acquiring the best 19 year olds, as well as putting his team in a position to win a playoff series or two.

I really like IT, but I think he's a place-holder until we get the next PG that will take us to the Finals. Crowder is a role player on a championship team, and Horford could be the 3rd/4th option.

I agree DA has placed this team in a position to not only compete in the playoffs but also be in position to draft elite talent. If DA takes the stance that the Cs are "all in to win now" he might as well follow in the foot steps of the Nets who so graciously mortgaged their future in the hopes of a few seasons of relevance in the NY market.

The Cs are in the business of winning championships Boston is not a market that wants to just see its teams compete. The Cs have the picks to amass an elite young talent pool and a current roster that can compete in the top of the east and continue the winning culture. It is currently a very advantages position to be and the point of my original post is that I would hate to see DA squander that for the right to get crushed the next few years by the Cavs and Warriors.   
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2016, 02:41:45 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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The Nuggets, Kings, Suns, Pelicans, Magic, and Wizards (plus the Nets, LOL) are proof drafting over and over in the lottery does not work on its own.

I think the Thunder and Wolves are more of the exception, not the rule, to good drafting and results. Even still, what have those teams won?

Unless the next Lebron or Kobe is for sure coming out of the draft (which they are not) you trade the pick if you have the option.

What about Anthony Davis, Cousins, Greek Freak, or even Jimmy butler? I wouldn't trade away any of those would be picks.

Pretty sure you answered your own question. What are those teams doing in terms of success? I didn;t include the Bulls or Bucks  ???

Also the Bucks and Bulls lucked into outside the top 10 picks turning into superstars.
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 02:42:32 PM »

Offline Moranis

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?

Define win. A win against the 76ers? Check. Playoff wins against the Cavs/Warriors? No check.

I think Danny is doing a masterful job of maneuvering around the common strategies of stinking for talent and going all in for a championship today. This while having multiple opportunities of acquiring the best 19 year olds, as well as putting his team in a position to win a playoff series or two.

I really like IT, but I think he's a place-holder until we get the next PG that will take us to the Finals. Crowder is a role player on a championship team, and Horford could be the 3rd/4th option.

I agree DA has placed this team in a position to not only compete in the playoffs but also be in position to draft elite talent. If DA takes the stance that the Cs are "all in to win now" he might as well follow in the foot steps of the Nets who so graciously mortgaged their future in the hopes of a few seasons of relevance in the NY market.

The Cs are in the business of winning championships Boston is not a market that wants to just see its teams compete. The Cs have the picks to amass an elite young talent pool and a current roster that can compete in the top of the east and continue the winning culture. It is currently a very advantages position to be and the point of my original post is that I would hate to see DA squander that for the right to get crushed the next few years by the Cavs and Warriors.   
Building a "winning" culture now will have no bearing on what Brown, BKN 17, and BKN 18 become.  If the purpose is to create a championship level team based around the BKN picks, then making the playoffs now does nothing towards that goal and in fact might hurt that goal as it diminishes playing time for young players and affects Boston's own 18 and 19 draft position. 

Too many on this board want to have their cake and eat it to, and that almost always backfires.  Boston needs to pick a direction i.e. go all in now and try and win around the current group or build towards the future.  This middling stuff just isn't conducive to winning championships, which should be the ultimate goal.  Ainge's moves over the last year or so all indicate that Boston is going to try and win now, which means assets will be traded. 
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 02:44:10 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?

Define win. A win against the 76ers? Check. Playoff wins against the Cavs/Warriors? No check.

I think Danny is doing a masterful job of maneuvering around the common strategies of stinking for talent and going all in for a championship today. This while having multiple opportunities of acquiring the best 19 year olds, as well as putting his team in a position to win a playoff series or two.

I really like IT, but I think he's a place-holder until we get the next PG that will take us to the Finals. Crowder is a role player on a championship team, and Horford could be the 3rd/4th option.

I agree DA has placed this team in a position to not only compete in the playoffs but also be in position to draft elite talent. If DA takes the stance that the Cs are "all in to win now" he might as well follow in the foot steps of the Nets who so graciously mortgaged their future in the hopes of a few seasons of relevance in the NY market.

The Cs are in the business of winning championships Boston is not a market that wants to just see its teams compete. The Cs have the picks to amass an elite young talent pool and a current roster that can compete in the top of the east and continue the winning culture. It is currently a very advantages position to be and the point of my original post is that I would hate to see DA squander that for the right to get crushed the next few years by the Cavs and Warriors.   


Considering the last time Ainge pulled the "all in" trigger, I am not worried about him pulling the Net's mistake of players past their prime.

Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2016, 02:47:32 PM »

Offline alewilliam789

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If you were going to trade a top pick it should have been last year. No way I'm trading this Pick with the talent that is at the top of the draft. There are legitimate franchise talents like Ball, Fultz, Tatum, and Dennis Smith Jr. Maybe even Jackson even though I personally don't see it. Unless you get a too good to be true offer you keep the pick because even Danny couldn't find a way to screw up a top 3 pick in this draft. Of course unless he takes Markannen and in which case I'll go insane and burn down Boston

Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2016, 02:51:56 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I am OK using the Net picks in trades, as long as the team doesn't move both of them in a single trade.


They are there to add talent.  A single pick is not likely enough to move the Celtics into being a contender quickly.  This team is set up to move into that type of position quickly with it's depth.


I think the best of both worlds would be to use some of the depth and picks to add the top level star this team needs while keeping some top level youth and a single Nets pick to create more longevity to the Celtics time as contenders. 



Of course all of this is moot if that top level star never become available.
I agree with this. Especially the part about a star not becoming available. For the last two years I have been waiting for the C's to make a consolidation deal to bring in a top talent and despite all our assets nothing happened.

We can't force teams to trade us their stars, we can only be ready in case they do.
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2016, 02:53:52 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?

Define win. A win against the 76ers? Check. Playoff wins against the Cavs/Warriors? No check.

I think Danny is doing a masterful job of maneuvering around the common strategies of stinking for talent and going all in for a championship today. This while having multiple opportunities of acquiring the best 19 year olds, as well as putting his team in a position to win a playoff series or two.

I really like IT, but I think he's a place-holder until we get the next PG that will take us to the Finals. Crowder is a role player on a championship team, and Horford could be the 3rd/4th option.

I agree DA has placed this team in a position to not only compete in the playoffs but also be in position to draft elite talent. If DA takes the stance that the Cs are "all in to win now" he might as well follow in the foot steps of the Nets who so graciously mortgaged their future in the hopes of a few seasons of relevance in the NY market.

The Cs are in the business of winning championships Boston is not a market that wants to just see its teams compete. The Cs have the picks to amass an elite young talent pool and a current roster that can compete in the top of the east and continue the winning culture. It is currently a very advantages position to be and the point of my original post is that I would hate to see DA squander that for the right to get crushed the next few years by the Cavs and Warriors.   


Considering the last time Ainge pulled the "all in" trigger, I am not worried about him pulling the Net's mistake of players past their prime.

I also trust DA not to make a nets like mistake but it must also be taken into account that the Cs all in move for KG and Allen instantly made them the favorites in the east. Given the current landscape of the east I do not see a move available that makes the Cs better then the Cavs.
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2016, 02:56:27 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?

Define win. A win against the 76ers? Check. Playoff wins against the Cavs/Warriors? No check.

I think Danny is doing a masterful job of maneuvering around the common strategies of stinking for talent and going all in for a championship today. This while having multiple opportunities of acquiring the best 19 year olds, as well as putting his team in a position to win a playoff series or two.

I really like IT, but I think he's a place-holder until we get the next PG that will take us to the Finals. Crowder is a role player on a championship team, and Horford could be the 3rd/4th option.

I agree DA has placed this team in a position to not only compete in the playoffs but also be in position to draft elite talent. If DA takes the stance that the Cs are "all in to win now" he might as well follow in the foot steps of the Nets who so graciously mortgaged their future in the hopes of a few seasons of relevance in the NY market.

The Cs are in the business of winning championships Boston is not a market that wants to just see its teams compete. The Cs have the picks to amass an elite young talent pool and a current roster that can compete in the top of the east and continue the winning culture. It is currently a very advantages position to be and the point of my original post is that I would hate to see DA squander that for the right to get crushed the next few years by the Cavs and Warriors.   


Considering the last time Ainge pulled the "all in" trigger, I am not worried about him pulling the Net's mistake of players past their prime.

I also trust DA not to make a nets like mistake but it must also be taken into account that the Cs all in move for KG and Allen instantly made them the favorites in the east. Given the current landscape of the east I do not see a move available that makes the Cs better then the Cavs.


It wasn't one move.


They traded for Ray Allen.   They got better, but were not consider the best of the East or a title contender.


Then they traded for KG.



So I would be shocked if one move makes them a title contender.  But this time, all moves do not have to be as big.  One has to be as big.

Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2016, 03:00:44 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?


IT - Crowder - Horford with an average supporting cast is the basis of a pretty good team.

Add a top player via FA or trade and that team might contend.  The window is still open right now to add that final piece.  It's possible that player could come via the draft, but it'd have to be a truly amazing prospect to make that kind of impact within the IT / Horford timeline.

I believe that's the basic plan Ainge has going right now. 
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2016, 10:13:19 AM »

Offline Moranis

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?


IT - Crowder - Horford with an average supporting cast is the basis of a pretty good team.

Add a top player via FA or trade and that team might contend.  The window is still open right now to add that final piece.  It's possible that player could come via the draft, but it'd have to be a truly amazing prospect to make that kind of impact within the IT / Horford timeline.

I believe that's the basic plan Ainge has going right now.
I agree and that is my point.  I fully expect Ainge to trade at least one if not both of the Brooklyn picks by the start of next season. 
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2016, 10:28:44 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?

Define win. A win against the 76ers? Check. Playoff wins against the Cavs/Warriors? No check.

I think Danny is doing a masterful job of maneuvering around the common strategies of stinking for talent and going all in for a championship today. This while having multiple opportunities of acquiring the best 19 year olds, as well as putting his team in a position to win a playoff series or two.

I really like IT, but I think he's a place-holder until we get the next PG that will take us to the Finals. Crowder is a role player on a championship team, and Horford could be the 3rd/4th option.

I agree DA has placed this team in a position to not only compete in the playoffs but also be in position to draft elite talent. If DA takes the stance that the Cs are "all in to win now" he might as well follow in the foot steps of the Nets who so graciously mortgaged their future in the hopes of a few seasons of relevance in the NY market.

The Cs are in the business of winning championships Boston is not a market that wants to just see its teams compete. The Cs have the picks to amass an elite young talent pool and a current roster that can compete in the top of the east and continue the winning culture. It is currently a very advantages position to be and the point of my original post is that I would hate to see DA squander that for the right to get crushed the next few years by the Cavs and Warriors.   


Considering the last time Ainge pulled the "all in" trigger, I am not worried about him pulling the Net's mistake of players past their prime.

I also trust DA not to make a nets like mistake but it must also be taken into account that the Cs all in move for KG and Allen instantly made them the favorites in the east. Given the current landscape of the east I do not see a move available that makes the Cs better then the Cavs.


It wasn't one move.


They traded for Ray Allen.   They got better, but were not consider the best of the East or a title contender.


Then they traded for KG.



So I would be shocked if one move makes them a title contender.  But this time, all moves do not have to be as big.  One has to be as big.

The point I am trying to make with the KG/Ray trade comp is that those moves made the Cs the powerhouse in the east. I do not see viable trade options that will vault the Cs above the Cavs let alone touch the Warriors.

If a true contender can not be built the Cs should use the Nets picks to load up for the future while the current roster strives to over achieve and compete with the Cavs. Selling the farm to afford a nice vacation is not a good long term plan.
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2016, 10:32:12 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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What was the point of signing Horford and not trading Thomas and Crowder if you weren't going to try and win now?


IT - Crowder - Horford with an average supporting cast is the basis of a pretty good team.

Add a top player via FA or trade and that team might contend.  The window is still open right now to add that final piece.  It's possible that player could come via the draft, but it'd have to be a truly amazing prospect to make that kind of impact within the IT / Horford timeline.

I believe that's the basic plan Ainge has going right now.
I'd also say that Horford is exactly the type of professional veteran that you want around young highly regarded prospects. The same could be said of Crowder.

I agree that the first option is to add a star to the group in free agency, but if that doesn't work I think Danny is fine growing the team organically and developing all the Brooklyn picks.
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2016, 10:41:19 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I don't see this team beating Warriors or Cavs if you add a big name and lose key pieces. So unless it's a deal like Brown, Rozier, Zeller and two Nets 1st for a top ten player the C's might as well just keep building slowly.

Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2016, 12:21:52 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I don't see this team beating Warriors or Cavs if you add a big name and lose key pieces. So unless it's a deal like Brown, Rozier, Zeller and two Nets 1st for a top ten player the C's might as well just keep building slowly.
There comes a point in time when mediocrity hurts future growth.  Boston isn't there yet, but that time isn't that far off either.
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Re: I am starting to view trading the 17 Nets pick as a critical mistake
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2016, 12:35:34 PM »

Offline gift

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Whether to keep or trade the Nets '17 pick is certainly a good problem to have.