Author Topic: Jayson Tatum (Merged)  (Read 16569 times)

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Re: Tatum is a glorified TJ Warren
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2016, 03:57:51 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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You really can't compare the two especially Tatum being so much younger and not being healthy early. Tatum is 10x the prospect



 Sure you can very similar games very similar body size. TJ went from 12 points per game to 25 points per game his sophomore year. There is no way Tatum would have that type of jump in his second year.

Re: Tatum is a glorified TJ Warren
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2016, 12:35:27 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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You have to look at Tatum's body of work not just his stats from 3 or 4 games. The guy has been known for years.



You really can't compare the two especially Tatum being so much younger and not being healthy early. Tatum is 10x the prospect



 Sure you can very similar games very similar body size. TJ went from 12 points per game to 25 points per game his sophomore year. There is no way Tatum would have that type of jump in his second year.

Re: Tatum is a glorified TJ Warren
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2016, 01:14:11 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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His go to shot is the long two, the most inefficient shot which he's shooting, inefficiently, he passes up open 3s for those folks...  which doesn't bode well, I'd say.

And at 6'8" and he can't dunk the ball on a fastbreak with a 6'3" guy trailing him?! He just seems like too much of a finesse player. And we are NOT a finesse team  8) Please no, I'd rather wait for Jaylen to show signs of life.

Re: Tatum is a glorified TJ Warren
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2016, 02:00:29 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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The frontcourt is full of finesse players. Anyways he dont have to be that type of dog. He just has to put the ball in the basket.

And this is where the numbers make the game boring as hell. I want to see the ball go in the basket. BY your logic you would take Crowder over Derozen because Derozen shoots long 2's. Well guess what they go in.

The numbers would tell you to never take a guy like KG on offense because he shoots long 2's well guess what, I would take his consistency all day over the brickfest that I see from bigs today because the numbers say you need to shoot 3's.

The numbers are leading to alot of one dimensional players and frankly I think thats boring. A ton of 1 level scorers that cant dribble, post up, draw contact, or finish with any type of traffic.

Lastly, directly about Tatum. Developing range is easier than being able to develop what he already has in his game.

His go to shot is the long two, the most inefficient shot which he's shooting, inefficiently, he passes up open 3s for those folks...  which doesn't bode well, I'd say.

And at 6'8" and he can't dunk the ball on a fastbreak with a 6'3" guy trailing him?! He just seems like too much of a finesse player. And we are NOT a finesse team  8) Please no, I'd rather wait for Jaylen to show signs of life.

Re: Jason Tatum suck he does not
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2016, 11:58:51 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now

I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.

I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.

Re: Jason Tatum suck he does not
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2016, 12:50:51 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now

I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.

I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.

I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.

I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.

Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.

Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.

Re: Jason Tatum suck he does not
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2016, 01:01:34 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now

I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.

I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.

I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.

I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.

Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.

Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.
Wait so is Ball fools gold or a future star
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Jason Tatum suck he does not
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2016, 01:58:17 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now

I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.

I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.

I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.

I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.

Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.

Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.
Wait so is Ball fools gold or a future star

That depends on who drafts him. If Ball goes to a rough situation like Miami (Poor system fit) or Phoenix (Crowded back court) I think he's due for a rocky start to his career. If he could get into a great situation like New Orleans (Opportunity) or Minnesota (established talent around him) he could go down as one of the all time greats.

The kid looks special, though I'm staying consistent in that I don't want to be watching Lonzo Ball Ball for the next 10 years. Would love Fultz and would tolerate Dennis Smith Jr, but other than them I want no part in taking another guard in the 2017 NBA Draft.

Lonzo Ball ask a lot from whatever team drafts him. For some situations that's a positive, for ours... might be a case of too many cooks.

Re: Jason Tatum suck he does not
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2016, 10:14:15 AM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now

I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.

I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.

I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.

I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.

Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.

Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.

Tatum  OBPM is 0.6 at an usage rate of 30%. He's not lighting college on fire right now. So hold your horses with the next paul pierce. Tatum supporters always ignore his offensive woes this season, he can get better but I'm not placing blind faith on that. I need to see it to believe it

Also I'd like to think this franchise isn't that predictable that they draft for defensive player every year and hope they go from none shooter to good shooter and then we miss out on. legit Great shooters. Look at Young being on a pro roster, RJ' scase, Green now, Rozier at the start of the season... Danny wants a guard that can shoot.

Re: Jason Tatum suck he does not
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2016, 10:42:15 AM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Tatum has played in 5 games this year. Not much of a track record if you are going on college stats. Looking at his stats now is like Jaylen Brown syndrome all over again. Tatum isnt new on the scene. The guy has been playing in high level games for years. NBA teams arent going to look at a 5 game snapshot of numbers and say oh slow down here. They are looking at skills that will translate.

With Tatum they are looking for the following things: 1) can he extend his range to the 3 2) can he lock in on D consistently 3) can he be a playmaker for others 4) does he find ways to attack the rim and finish.

None of these things have to do with usage rate. Jaylen had a usage rate of like 31.6 last year and sits at about 11 this year. So you say to yourself what skills does this guy have that can make him special on the next level. Oh an btw, Jaylen showed virtually no playmaking skills at Cal but if you had watched him earlier in his career the skills were there. So if you looked at his Assist to TO ratio you would say the guy was horrible based on college stats but if you have watched him in the pros when he wasnt required to be the main scoring option and had people moving its a different story.

Bottom line, lets not get too carried away with numbers on a college level.

I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now

I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.

I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.

I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.

I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.

Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.

Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.

Tatum  OBPM is 0.6 at an usage rate of 30%. He's not lighting college on fire right now. So hold your horses with the next paul pierce. Tatum supporters always ignore his offensive woes this season, he can get better but I'm not placing blind faith on that. I need to see it to believe it

Also I'd like to think this franchise isn't that predictable that they draft for defensive player every year and hope they go from none shooter to good shooter and then we miss out on. legit Great shooters. Look at Young being on a pro roster, RJ' scase, Green now, Rozier at the start of the season... Danny wants a guard that can shoot.

Re: Jason Tatum suck he does not
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2017, 08:10:17 AM »

Offline The One

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Uh oh...does Mr. Tay Tay have a low ceiling?

https://theringer.com/jayson-tatums-old-game-could-use-some-new-tricks-c37f49bb21b8#.tetmfv3yr

"...he may not have the upside to be worth a pick near the top of the lottery, especially if he canít become a more versatile offensive player."




Re: Jason Tatum suck he does not
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2017, 09:44:45 AM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Uh oh...does Mr. Tay Tay have a low ceiling?

https://theringer.com/jayson-tatums-old-game-could-use-some-new-tricks-c37f49bb21b8#.tetmfv3yr

"...he may not have the upside to be worth a pick near the top of the lottery, especially if he canít become a more versatile offensive player."

That's a good article but it doesnt say anything that we didnt already know about him going into the season. He has always been very good at what he does. Now with that being said the only thing I would like to see from him is developing more as a playmaker. I dont care about usage rate and assist numbers and his 3pt %. That's all irrelevant to me. Its all about his skill level.

I dont know what he will be as a pro for sure but I kinda had to laugh at this article because it doesnt offer new info and is using stats to back up the claim. This report could have been made about Pierce as a college player just looking at the stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/piercpa01.html#all_all_college_stats


Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2017, 06:32:50 AM »

Offline triboy16f

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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8

Prob his game of the year so far

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2017, 08:37:39 AM »

Offline The One

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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8

Prob his game of the year so far

But will he be BPA?  IDK...IMO... :P

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2017, 09:22:07 AM »

Offline triboy16f

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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8

Prob his game of the year so far

But will he be BPA?  IDK...IMO... :P

Same....

He doesnt have above average quickness.... Can jump but in space... Kind of like James Young