Author Topic: Jason Tatum (Merged)  (Read 9699 times)

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Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #180 on: March 20, 2017, 01:04:54 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Im not sure about a Simmons comp. I dont see the similarities. Tatum is a scorer than can pass whil Simmons is a passer than can score.

Im really glad the draft isnt right after the tourney because the hype for or the lack there of for players swings so dramatically.

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #181 on: March 20, 2017, 01:10:25 PM »

Online saltlover

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Anybody catch the upset last night?

I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.

I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.

Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.

I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.

I agree on both.  I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability.  Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF.  He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty.  Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter.  If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons.  He can be a point-forward in the future.

Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson.  He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.

Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be.  Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season).  He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays.  He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today.  If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him.  I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.

He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot.  I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example.  But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense.  They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF.  I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick.  He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome.  He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #182 on: March 20, 2017, 01:11:46 PM »

Online saltlover

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Im not sure about a Simmons comp. I dont see the similarities. Tatum is a scorer than can pass whil Simmons is a passer than can score.

Im really glad the draft isnt right after the tourney because the hype for or the lack there of for players swings so dramatically.

To be fair, I did call it a "ridiculous comp".  But I think he's as close to Simmons as he is to Porter.  That was more the point.

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #183 on: March 20, 2017, 01:26:30 PM »

Offline Who

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Comparison: Caron Butler

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #184 on: March 20, 2017, 01:43:59 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Comparison: Caron Butler

Yeah, I can see that. And people may not like the comp but Butler was a two-time All Star and one of the better SFs in the league for a period of time. Many 3rd or 4th picks don't achieve as much.

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #185 on: March 20, 2017, 02:04:27 PM »

Offline footey

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Anybody catch the upset last night?

I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.

I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.

Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.

I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.

I agree on both.  I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability.  Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF.  He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty.  Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter.  If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons.  He can be a point-forward in the future.

Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson.  He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.

Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be.  Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season).  He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays.  He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today.  If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him.  I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.

He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot.  I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example.  But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense.  They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF.  I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick.  He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome.  He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
Saltlover, you'd pick Tatum over Jackson if you were the Celtics?

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #186 on: March 20, 2017, 02:10:47 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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First off, I really like Jayson Tatum and am psyched that he may be our worse case scenario.

It sounds like people are thinking Tatum is an NBA power forward.  Am I right on that?  Because I've also read here that Josh Jackson is a wing and Jaylen is a better fit to play 4 than Josh.

Tatum is 6'8" and 205 lbs, averaging 16.8 points, 7.3 reb, 45% FG% and 34% 3FG%.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum

Jackson is 6'8", 207 lbs, averaging 16.6 points, 7.1 reb, 52% FG% and 38% 3FG%.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4066297/josh-jackson

I always saw Tatum as a small forward, and I didn't even know how close the stats were between them except for Jackson's better passing and Tatum's better FT shooting.  Do people think he's more of a PF, and if so, why is hardly no one saying Jackson can be a PF with the same physical measurements, a high FG%, lower FT%, and nearly identical scoring and rebounding #'s?

EDIT: I also see Tatum play mostly on the perimeter in Duke's offensive sets.  He is their 4, but he's usually out at the 3 point line, and 6'8" 205 isn't exactly PF size.  I know he's 18 or 19 and we would hope he'll get stronger, but will he get taller?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 02:19:22 PM by smokeablount »
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

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Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #187 on: March 20, 2017, 02:20:17 PM »

Online saltlover

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Anybody catch the upset last night?

I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.

I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.

Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.

I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.

I agree on both.  I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability.  Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF.  He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty.  Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter.  If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons.  He can be a point-forward in the future.

Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson.  He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.

Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be.  Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season).  He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays.  He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today.  If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him.  I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.

He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot.  I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example.  But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense.  They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF.  I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick.  He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome.  He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
Saltlover, you'd pick Tatum over Jackson if you were the Celtics?

Didn't say that.  I don't know which I'd pick, personally.  I do think it's close (you have to remember Tatum is a full year younger than Jackson, which is important when projecting ceiling).  I'm curious as to how much they will participate at the combine, if at all.  On TV, Tatum looks bigger to me, but their various hoop summit measurements are pretty close (except, again, Tatum has been younger and therefore more likely to have grown).  I think Tatum is a pure PF in terms of size and game, whereas Jackson could play up a little bit.  But TV can make a guy look bigger or smaller than he actually is.  If Tatum really has the extra 1-2 inches in height and 2-3 inches in wingspan that I think he does, I might lean that way.

But man, I do like Jackson.  A lot.  So I don't know.  Most days I really wish I worked for the Celtics front office, but I'll be glad to be a fan on draft night.  It will be a tough decision.

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #188 on: March 20, 2017, 02:49:03 PM »

Offline footey

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Anybody catch the upset last night?

I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.

I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.

Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.

I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.

I agree on both.  I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability.  Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF.  He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty.  Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter.  If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons.  He can be a point-forward in the future.

Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson.  He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.

Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be.  Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season).  He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays.  He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today.  If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him.  I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.

He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot.  I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example.  But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense.  They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF.  I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick.  He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome.  He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
Saltlover, you'd pick Tatum over Jackson if you were the Celtics?

Didn't say that.  I don't know which I'd pick, personally.  I do think it's close (you have to remember Tatum is a full year younger than Jackson, which is important when projecting ceiling).  I'm curious as to how much they will participate at the combine, if at all.  On TV, Tatum looks bigger to me, but their various hoop summit measurements are pretty close (except, again, Tatum has been younger and therefore more likely to have grown).  I think Tatum is a pure PF in terms of size and game, whereas Jackson could play up a little bit.  But TV can make a guy look bigger or smaller than he actually is.  If Tatum really has the extra 1-2 inches in height and 2-3 inches in wingspan that I think he does, I might lean that way.

But man, I do like Jackson.  A lot.  So I don't know.  Most days I really wish I worked for the Celtics front office, but I'll be glad to be a fan on draft night.  It will be a tough decision.

Thanks.

I think Jackson is going to be considerably better as a pro. He seems much more engaged in each play than Tatum. His style of play just seems more organic, fluid, than Tatum's. Tatum plays like he is wound up a bit, tense. I'm not sure an extra year in age accounts for the difference that I have observed.  They are both Freshman.

As far as Jackson's size, I watched a game a few weeks ago when I think Kansas was playing OKC. It was the first game Bill Walton, one of the announcers, saw Jackson play live.  Several time he remarked how surprised he was at how big Jackson was.  I agree with you that Tatum is more of a traditional body type of an NBA power forward, but I don't even know if that means as much anymore. There is so much switching on defense, especially by the Celtics, I just feel that Jackson is more athletically capable of guarding multiple positions than Tatum.

I'm by no means bashing Tatum. I think he will be a fine pro. It's just that Jackson feels very special to me. 

Of course I once predicted Tyrus Thomas would be an All Star in the NBA, so there's that.

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #189 on: March 20, 2017, 02:56:24 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Anybody catch the upset last night?

I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.

I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.

Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.

I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.

I agree on both.  I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability.  Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF.  He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty.  Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter.  If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons.  He can be a point-forward in the future.

Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson.  He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.

Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be.  Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season).  He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays.  He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today.  If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him.  I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.

He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot.  I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example.  But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense.  They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF.  I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick.  He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome.  He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
Saltlover, you'd pick Tatum over Jackson if you were the Celtics?

Didn't say that.  I don't know which I'd pick, personally.  I do think it's close (you have to remember Tatum is a full year younger than Jackson, which is important when projecting ceiling).  I'm curious as to how much they will participate at the combine, if at all.  On TV, Tatum looks bigger to me, but their various hoop summit measurements are pretty close (except, again, Tatum has been younger and therefore more likely to have grown).  I think Tatum is a pure PF in terms of size and game, whereas Jackson could play up a little bit.  But TV can make a guy look bigger or smaller than he actually is.  If Tatum really has the extra 1-2 inches in height and 2-3 inches in wingspan that I think he does, I might lean that way.

But man, I do like Jackson.  A lot.  So I don't know.  Most days I really wish I worked for the Celtics front office, but I'll be glad to be a fan on draft night.  It will be a tough decision.

Thanks.

I think Jackson is going to be considerably better as a pro. He seems much more engaged in each play than Tatum. His style of play just seems more organic, fluid, than Tatum's. Tatum plays like he is wound up a bit, tense. I'm not sure an extra year in age accounts for the difference that I have observed.  They are both Freshman.

As far as Jackson's size, I watched a game a few weeks ago when I think Kansas was playing OKC. It was the first game Bill Walton, one of the announcers, saw Jackson play live.  Several time he remarked how surprised he was at how big Jackson was.  I agree with you that Tatum is more of a traditional body type of an NBA power forward, but I don't even know if that means as much anymore. There is so much switching on defense, especially by the Celtics, I just feel that Jackson is more athletically capable of guarding multiple positions than Tatum.

I'm by no means bashing Tatum. I think he will be a fine pro. It's just that Jackson feels very special to me. 

Of course I once predicted Tyrus Thomas would be an All Star in the NBA, so there's that.

Hah, I liked Tyrus too.  Rim protector, pretty smooth jumper.  An all-time miss by me.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #190 on: March 20, 2017, 03:11:48 PM »

Offline nebist

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Some positional thoughts.

Crowder is a 3 that can play the 4 for short stretches. 

Jaylen Brown is a 3 than can play the 2 for short stretches but could develop to play the 4 short stretches as well.  He's pretty versatile athletically. 

Jackson seems like a 3 that will be able to play the 4 for short stretches.

Tatum seems like he will be more of a true tweener that is equally as good at the 3 or the 4.  I agree that he looks a little bigger than Jackson.

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #191 on: March 25, 2017, 02:02:52 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Some positional thoughts.

Crowder is a 3 that can play the 4 for short stretches. 

Jaylen Brown is a 3 than can play the 2 for short stretches but could develop to play the 4 short stretches as well.  He's pretty versatile athletically. 

Jackson seems like a 3 that will be able to play the 4 for short stretches.

Tatum seems like he will be more of a true tweener that is equally as good at the 3 or the 4.  I agree that he looks a little bigger than Jackson.
Agree on all except Jackson. He is going to be best at the 2 early in his career.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #192 on: April 08, 2017, 07:49:14 PM »

Offline The One

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https://youtu.be/aVjwnLHSMfc
 
This guy's offensive game is so buttery smooth!

Man, he would fit in so nicely on the front court... ;D



Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #193 on: April 08, 2017, 08:26:36 PM »

Offline nebist

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Yeah, there is a lot to like with Tatum.  He sure looks like a mix between Pierce and Melo.  Not a bad consolation prize at all if we drop to 3 or 4.

Re: Jason Tatum (Merged)
« Reply #194 on: April 08, 2017, 08:40:09 PM »

Offline positivitize

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Can't lose. Get one? Draft Fultz. Get two? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get three? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get four? Draft Isaac.

As for the Jackson vs Tatum debate: Jackson fits the mold of the players we already have. He's a gritty, intense workhorse with tons of upside that doesn't take possessions off a la Smart, Crowder, Brown, Bradley, Amir, and Rozier. He's also got a questionable jump shot. He's a Danny Ainge kinda pick. He'll fit right in. That said... our team can really struggle to put the ball in the hoop, especially when IT is on the bench. While ISOs aren't really Brad Stevens' style, drafting Tatum gives us an opportunity to get another scorer. I look at Tatum and see Melo. Tatum INSTANTLY makes it easier for our second unit to score. That's tough to pass up.
Fultz (12) >>> Ball(9) = Jackson(9) = Tatum(9) > Isaac(8 )
Last year for context:
Simmons (10) >>>>>>>>Ingram (7) = Brown(7)

Biasies:
Pro-Smart, Pro-Brown, Pro-Crowder, Pro-IT