Author Topic: Red Sox Get Sale  (Read 3060 times)

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Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2016, 02:51:35 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Picking up Buchholz's option suddenly looks even worse.

Moncada and Kopech is a pretty good haul, though. Wonder whether we'll have another Anthony Rizzo situation here.
in the context of the talent of this team and its wallet, buchholz is not a major problem. they can always trade him. starting pitchers are always in demand. or convert him to long reliever.

and dont forget, Sale is getting paid around $12,000,000 a year for three years. very very reasonable contract.

moncada's future is the key. but you need to give up talent to get talent...unless you are ainge. :)
Precisely. Sale is making $1.5 million less than Buccholz. I normally don't care about other people's money, but given the team's declared intent to stay under the luxury tax, the decision to pay a massive contract to a horrible pitcher suddenly seems relevant.
"massive" and "horrible" are not completely accurate and smack of over reaction. and as stated above, the sox are not constrained in anyway by buchholz's contract. and he is moveable.

nothing to see here. let's move along everyone.  ;D
He's been "movable" for years, and yet he's gone nowhere even though he's been redundant to the extent that they put him in the pen. He's Wade Miley, and based on what Wade Miley is paid, he's signed for at least twice the going rate.

I've been pretty vocal in my disappointment with Buchholz, and have long advocated the Sox moving him in exchange for anything, but he made an adjustment to his mechanics toward the end of this last season that did seem to make a big, positive difference. If this team could get the good "old Buchholz" back, that would be fantastic.
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Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2016, 02:59:33 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I've been pretty vocal in my disappointment with Buchholz, and have long advocated the Sox moving him in exchange for anything, but he made an adjustment to his mechanics toward the end of this last season that did seem to make a big, positive difference. If this team could get the good "old Buchholz" back, that would be fantastic.
He's "turned a corner" may times before and invariably flopped sooner rather than later. I don't think his issues are mechanical, they're in his head.
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Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2016, 03:14:07 PM »

Offline Cman

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Picking up Buchholz's option suddenly looks even worse.

Moncada and Kopech is a pretty good haul, though. Wonder whether we'll have another Anthony Rizzo situation here.
in the context of the talent of this team and its wallet, buchholz is not a major problem. they can always trade him. starting pitchers are always in demand. or convert him to long reliever.

and dont forget, Sale is getting paid around $12,000,000 a year for three years. very very reasonable contract.

moncada's future is the key. but you need to give up talent to get talent...unless you are ainge. :)
Agreed and we have other young talent so it doesn't hurt the future of the team much.
to say the least...here is another item from SoSH on that exact topic:

And:

Betts controlled through 2020
Boegards controlled through 2019
Bradley controlled through 2020
Swihart controlled through 2021
Benintendi controlled through 2022
Edro controlled through 2020
Price controlled through 2022
Porcello controlled through 2019
Sale controlled through 2019
Pedroia controlled through 2020

So that's your top-3 starters, your entire outfield, your middle infield and your catching situation, all controlled for the next three years. And that's before any of these guys sign any extensions.

The 2020 offseason might be brutal, but at this point there aren't that many openings for young players even if the system had more talent to promote.

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Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2016, 03:46:40 PM »

Online knuckleballer

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Thought I'd post a picture of Sandoval which was taken yesterday or the day before.



He has lost a lot of weight.  He looks good.  He certainly doesn't deserve any benefit of doubt that he will stay in shape, but I have little doubt he will play well if stays anywhere close to this weight.  He's a talented guy.  Then you have Devers who is likely about two years away from taking over third base.

Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2016, 03:50:27 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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We have 4 left handed starters that could conceivably be in the mix (Sale, Price, Pomeranz, Rodriquez) plus 2 others (Ownes, Johnson) on the cusp.  Too many lefties.  I think Pomeranz or Rodriquez for sure get traded, maybe both.  I envision the starters being:

Porcello (R)
Sale (L)
Price (L)
Wright (R)
Buchholz (R)

With Rodriguez (L), and some righty to be named as the off roster depth.  That is about the best staff I remember.  I am not worried about replacing Papi but they probably will bring in a mid level vet.  I expect DH by committee.

Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2016, 03:58:58 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Betts controlled through 2020
Boegards controlled through 2019
Bradley controlled through 2020
Swihart controlled through 2021
Benintendi controlled through 2022
Edro controlled through 2020
Price controlled through 2022
Porcello controlled through 2019
Sale controlled through 2019
Pedroia controlled through 2020


Don't forget that Ramirez and Sandoval are both through 2019 (albiet overpaid) as well so we have a ton of control over the roster.

Also Brock Holt through 2019.  We are in very good shape.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 04:17:03 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2016, 04:08:08 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Thought I'd post a picture of Sandoval which was taken yesterday or the day before.



He has lost a lot of weight.  He looks good.  He certainly doesn't deserve any benefit of doubt that he will stay in shape, but I have little doubt he will play well if stays anywhere close to this weight.  He's a talented guy.  Then you have Devers who is likely about two years away from taking over third base.

Wow, he looks great.  3rd base will likely be a soft spot on the roster but we have Brock Holt and some others that can platoon there if needed.  I think Pablo will be his old self, 0.280, 15 HR, sufficient defense.  That will probably be fine.

Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2016, 04:24:03 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Picking up Buchholz's option suddenly looks even worse.

Moncada and Kopech is a pretty good haul, though. Wonder whether we'll have another Anthony Rizzo situation here.
in the context of the talent of this team and its wallet, buchholz is not a major problem. they can always trade him. starting pitchers are always in demand. or convert him to long reliever.

and dont forget, Sale is getting paid around $12,000,000 a year for three years. very very reasonable contract.

moncada's future is the key. but you need to give up talent to get talent...unless you are ainge. :)
Precisely. Sale is making $1.5 million less than Buccholz. I normally don't care about other people's money, but given the team's declared intent to stay under the luxury tax, the decision to pay a massive contract to a horrible pitcher suddenly seems relevant.
"massive" and "horrible" are not completely accurate and smack of over reaction. and as stated above, the sox are not constrained in anyway by buchholz's contract. and he is moveable.

nothing to see here. let's move along everyone.  ;D
He's been "movable" for years, and yet he's gone nowhere even though he's been redundant to the extent that they put him in the pen. He's Wade Miley, and based on what Wade Miley is paid, he's signed for at least twice the going rate.
simply determined to make something negative out of a huge, positive trade arent you? step back, relax, this is a good thing so let's enjoy it.  ;D
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Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2016, 04:26:18 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Thought I'd post a picture of Sandoval which was taken yesterday or the day before.



He has lost a lot of weight.  He looks good.  He certainly doesn't deserve any benefit of doubt that he will stay in shape, but I have little doubt he will play well if stays anywhere close to this weight.  He's a talented guy.  Then you have Devers who is likely about two years away from taking over third base.

Wow, he looks great.  3rd base will likely be a soft spot on the roster but we have Brock Holt and some others that can platoon there if needed.  I think Pablo will be his old self, 0.280, 15 HR, sufficient defense.  That will probably be fine.
given that the last time he fielded the position he was rated THE worst third baseman in all of major league baseball, those numbers would make me giddy.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2016, 05:03:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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simply determined to make something negative out of a huge, positive trade arent you? step back, relax, this is a good thing so let's enjoy it.  ;D
The deal is great. The Buccholz situation, not so much. As I said, I wouldn't normally care if the ownership wasn't committed to staying under the tax.
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Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2016, 05:03:14 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Thought I'd post a picture of Sandoval which was taken yesterday or the day before.



He has lost a lot of weight.  He looks good.  He certainly doesn't deserve any benefit of doubt that he will stay in shape, but I have little doubt he will play well if stays anywhere close to this weight.  He's a talented guy.  Then you have Devers who is likely about two years away from taking over third base.

Wow, he looks great.  3rd base will likely be a soft spot on the roster but we have Brock Holt and some others that can platoon there if needed.  I think Pablo will be his old self, 0.280, 15 HR, sufficient defense.  That will probably be fine.
given that the last time he fielded the position he was rated THE worst third baseman in all of major league baseball, those numbers would make me giddy.

Between 2012 and 2014 he averaged 0.280 with 14 HRs.  I am giving him one more HR thanks to Fenway.  I admit this is somewhat optimistic based on what he did in 2015 and 2016 and I realize this record is from 2-5 years ago.  I get that most are going to expect something more like his 2015 season but I think we will be OK with Pablo as the everyday third baseman/part time DH.  I believe he will be adequate in 2017.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 05:16:35 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2016, 05:23:08 PM »

Online knuckleballer

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Thought I'd post a picture of Sandoval which was taken yesterday or the day before.



He has lost a lot of weight.  He looks good.  He certainly doesn't deserve any benefit of doubt that he will stay in shape, but I have little doubt he will play well if stays anywhere close to this weight.  He's a talented guy.  Then you have Devers who is likely about two years away from taking over third base.

Wow, he looks great.  3rd base will likely be a soft spot on the roster but we have Brock Holt and some others that can platoon there if needed.  I think Pablo will be his old self, 0.280, 15 HR, sufficient defense.  That will probably be fine.
given that the last time he fielded the position he was rated THE worst third baseman in all of major league baseball, those numbers would make me giddy.

Between 2012 and 2014 he averaged 0.280 with 14 HRs.  I am giving him one more HR thanks to Fenway.  I admit this is somewhat optimistic based on what he did in 2015 and 2016 and I realize this record is from 2-5 years ago.  I get that most are going to expect something more like his 2015 season but I think we will be OK with Pablo as the everyday third baseman/part time DH.  I believe he will be adequate in 2017.

I think he will be adequate too.    He was a good fielding third baseman before 2015, but he just got way too fat.  He's now thinner than he was when he was still good, so I think he'll be fine defensively.  He's talented, it's all about fitness for him.  Dombrowski and Farrell seem to think the same thing.

Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2016, 05:33:33 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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simply determined to make something negative out of a huge, positive trade arent you? step back, relax, this is a good thing so let's enjoy it.  ;D
The deal is great. The Buccholz situation, not so much. As I said, I wouldn't normally care if the ownership wasn't committed to staying under the tax.

We need Buchholz.  He is one of only 3 right-handed starters.  That may change with more trades (which I expect) making him more expendable but right now, overpaid or not, we need him.  He will be a fine (albiet overpaid) #5 starter if that is how it works out.

Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2016, 05:57:55 PM »

Offline byennie

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Don't sleep on Pomeranz. He was clearly fatigued and didn't transition to Boston well, but he still ended the year with a 3.32 ERA and 10Ks per 9 innings. If he comes back with an ERA in the high 3s that would be a real nice #4/#5. How he got here is irrelevant.
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Re: Red Sox Get Sale
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2016, 06:36:20 PM »

Online Ilikesports17

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Don't sleep on Pomeranz. He was clearly fatigued and didn't transition to Boston well, but he still ended the year with a 3.32 ERA and 10Ks per 9 innings. If he comes back with an ERA in the high 3s that would be a real nice #4/#5. How he got here is irrelevant.
Wright Erod Pomeranz Bucholz are all so hard to judge.

So inconsistent. All have flashed lights out stuff and none can be trusted.
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