I'm finally on board.. Thomas should come off the bench

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Sorry I just don't believe the Celtics will excel with IT as the starting point guard. I don't care who, (within reason) you pair him with. If you pared him with Cousins, he still wouldn't defer to him. (Been there, done that, the Kings traded him.) We on the other hand are dying to give the pairing another go.

He's a defensive liability, he dominates the ball to score as much as he can. He thinks the more he scores, the better the chances are of a Celtic victory, and that's the way he plays the game, he still showing the NBA what a mistake they made about him at the draft years ago.

Sometimes it just seems to me he would rather challenge at the rim with acrobatic shots, than pass to an open shooter 10-12 feet away.

In a winning scheme, IT would come off the bench, replacing a solid Celtic PG, at opportunistic times during the game. And be very valuable to the team as a 6th man.   

If I'm wrong, and I hope I am, I'll say it.
 

Well said. This is where I am too.

Unfortunately with all the success IT has had since becoming a starter, I do not think he will be able to mentally accept moving back to the bench and into that 6th man role.

This is why I think trading IT (now or in the future) is the option to explore rather than trying (and failing) to move IT back to a 6th man role.

Isaiah is that all star point guard

You just said that he's had all this success, if he's had all this success why go away from him??

I do not believe in players like him.

Undersized PG. Selfish. Shot happy. Terrible defense. Bad rebounder.

Players like this have never won titles as a starting PG. Maybe that will change with the rule changes which have made these type of players more effective than they have been in the past but I am not convinced.

I am still a believer in the old ideology that players like Isaiah are best used as a 6th man sparkplug scorer rather than as a lead guard. 

agree with you regarding IT.  not a fan of his game.  makes some incredible shots but IMHO, a better-run offense wouldn't rely on him having to take those shots.  Really hate his drives down the court just to take a 3 with over 20 seconds left on the shot clock.  he does make a decent percentage but I'd rather see them get layups or draw fouls at the basket than jacking up 3's on the fast break.

as a scorer off the bench, he'd be a real asset.  as the starting PG, he's not enough of a facilitator to keep the job.  sadly, he's better than the other options we have at the moment.  Rozier may grow into that role when IT hits free agency or maybe we use the Nets high lottery pick we'll get this year to get that all-star PG.

Thomas is that All Star Point Guard.

should have said "starting quality" instead of 'all-star'. 

he made an all-star team based on his scoring.  he didn't get there based on his passing, ball handling or defense which, IMHO, are more important benchmarks for a starting PG.  when IT is having a bad shooting night, what else does he bring to the table to help the team win?  if anything, he'll continue to jack up outside shots.  granted, he drives to the hoop more often than the rest of the team (or it seems that way) which is a plus.

I prefer a PG that's a competent scorer but focuses more on getting his teammates involved in the offense.    also, as much as I'd like to see a guy his size succeed in this league, and he is doing quite well, every playoff series he's been in the opposing team picks on his inability to contest shots on D.  need someone who can start and not be pushed out of a playoff game for being a liability.

Clearly you haven't been paying attention to the NBA. What do all the top PGs in the league do really well? They are scoring point guards. Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, Kyle Lowry, I guess now James Harden, Damian Lillard, De'Angelo Russel, all of them besides Westbrook scoring point guards that struggle to defend, Westbrook is a good defender,  at an adequate enough level, probably because they are carrying their offense. IT is our offense and even as good as he is he can't be both our offense and defensive playmaker. The reason our defense is so bad this year is because our defensive playmakers like Crowder and Bradley aren't playing as well as they did last year on that end. Thomas wasn't that great on defense last year and we still had a top flight defensive team. Didn't hear a sit Thomas last year.

Either way you guys got your wish. He's out of the starting lineup and now your guys' hero Smart will step in. This is going to be ugly. Payton has generally got the best of Smart everytime they've played.

clearly I have been paying attention.  doesn't mean we need one as well.  if we have one that has an outside shot that has to be respected as well as able to drive to the hoop and able to finish or dish to an open teammate, that's what I'd prefer to have.  of course, we need to have teammates that can score when they're fed the ball.  we don't have many that are terribly consistent in that regard unfortunately.

I'm not saying to get rid of IT.  He's a dynamic scorer but that's about it.  ideally we'd have a better option starting ahead of him so he could come off the bench and be the primary scorer that he wants to be (and be in a position to be more effective for the team as a whole)

Yeah. Ideally, he would accept a 6th man role,  but he didn't before he made an allstar team, it's highly doubtful he will now.

To me the only question is when will the rest of the team be ready to make a deep playoff push - when will we be one pplayer away instead of two. That'll be the cue to put him on the block if he's still here then.

I've got 5 PGs I'd take ahead of him in each conference. Only 8 teams make th cut. If your top dog is 6th best at his position in your own conference, you aren't close to ready.

[ssspence]

Is there any legit reason why folks keep this topic up, other than stereotyping the player based on his height?

[chilidawg]

Is there any legit reason why folks keep this topic up, other than stereotyping the player based on his height?

Because he's a terrible defender?

[Rosco917]

Is there any legit reason why folks keep this topic up, other than stereotyping the player based on his height?

Yes, height in basketball is an asset. Much of the game is being played above the head of players averaging 6-5 and over. Much of the game simply goes over the reach of IT.

Look at the playoffs the Celtics have recently played in. IT was almost a none factor both years. The defense tightened up, physical play increases, teams have several games to come up with a game plan for specific players. For the C's, that player is IT.

IT has struggled in both series. In fact, both series he has been put at the off-guard position, because the lane just closed up, and he doesn't distribute the ball. 

IT accelerated the rebuild of the Celtics, he's been very valuable. He's a great team mate, everyone likes him, but he will not lead this team to be a contender as a starting PG.


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Is there any legit reason why folks keep this topic up, other than stereotyping the player based on his height?

Because he's a terrible defender?

I thought it was because his play isn't likely to translate to the playoffs.

Though he might get another chance to play in the postseason this year, and could prove me wrong. Thatd be great.

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Is there any legit reason why folks keep this topic up, other than stereotyping the player based on his height?

Yes, height in basketball is an asset. Much of the game is being played above the head of players averaging 6-5 and over. Much of the game simply goes over the reach of IT.

Look at the playoffs the Celtics have recently played in. IT was almost a none factor both years. The defense tightened up, physical play increases, teams have several games to come up with a game plan for specific players. For the C's, that player is IT.

IT has struggled in both series. In fact, both series he has been put at the off-guard position, because the lane just closed up, and he doesn't distribute the ball. 

IT accelerated the rebuild of the Celtics, he's been very valuable. He's a great team mate, everyone likes him, but he will not lead this team to be a contender as a starting PG.


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It's not just height. He lacks wingspan sufficient to pass around defenders. Trap him and it's over. HTs why he went to SG.

[jbpats]

IT out, assists up, rebounding up, points in the paint up and our ball movement has been fantastic. Guess this thread isn't as crazy as some believed it to be.

Not a bad little game for Rozier either 

[SHAQATTACK]

Smart should start
...he is better defender , and Smart often takes TOO long to get warmed up , comes off cold ....is part of his shooting woes .

IT is a scoring machine ....and helps starts with his scoring...but ....he can score as good or better off the bench than Smart .

Smart when healthy NEEDS to start

He establishes an defensive order to the game .....sets the other team straight on what will be tolerated .  IT does super for a little guy ......but he is not intimidating on defense like Smart.

[Phantom255x]

IT out, assists up, rebounding up, points in the paint up and our ball movement has been fantastic. Guess this thread isn't as crazy as some believed it to be.

You know this is the Magic right. Yes, I love the way the C's have played today...

But IT is still the best scorer on this team. Championship teams NEED scorers on them (guys averaging at least 18+ PPG).

Yeah, this thread is fine and IT could be vital coming off the bench.. It's just the people who claim the C's are better off moving on from IT that annoy me lol.

[jbpats]

IT out, assists up, rebounding up, points in the paint up and our ball movement has been fantastic. Guess this thread isn't as crazy as some believed it to be.

You know this is the Magic right. Yes, I love the way the C's have played today...

But IT is still the best scorer on this team. Championship teams NEED scorers on them (guys averaging at least 18+ PPG).

Yeah, this thread is fine and IT could be vital coming off the bench.. It's just the people who claim the C's are better off moving on from IT that annoy me lol.

This was one of our most dominating wins this season. You can say it was the Magic but it was also the end of a road trip.. and don't forget this team was lucky to beat a Philly team missing 4 starters.

One of the best team efforts so far this season if not the best.

It says something, maybe not a lot but something.

[SHAQATTACK]

Smart establishes a TEAM effort and dominating floor presence on defense . 

[Tr1boy]

Smart establishes a TEAM effort and dominating floor presence on defense .

yes! and team passing is better

I just want to see IT rest for 2 or 3 more games.... to prove tonight was not a fluke

[LilRip]

I'm a huge Smart fan but this is one game. If IT is out for an extended period and the team continues playing like this, then we'd have a case. Like last year when Smart was the starting PG, went out for 2 weeks (?), and IT claimed the starting role because we started winning. Reverse narrative could happen if IT remains out. Until then, IT is still (rightfully) the starting PG

[MJohnnyboy]

Smart establishes a TEAM effort and dominating floor presence on defense .

yes! and team passing is better

I just want to see IT rest for 2 or 3 more games.... to prove tonight was not a fluke

Good idea but I don't want to risk it against a team like Toronto. Celtics need a statement win against a good team.

[MJohnnyboy]

I'm a huge Smart fan but this is one game. If IT is out for an extended period and the team continues playing like this, then we'd have a case. Like last year when Smart was the starting PG, went out for 2 weeks (?), and IT claimed the starting role because we started winning. Reverse narrative could happen if IT remains out. Until then, IT is still (rightfully) the starting PG

Actually we didn't. We went 10-8 when Smart went down. I say the point where we started winning consistently was when we stopped playing Lee.

Anyway, we started IT because we soon realized he was more than just a scoring punch for us.