I'm finally on board.. Thomas should come off the bench

[jbpats]

Yet another Thomas to the bench thread I know..
Don't get me wrong, i'm a big fan of Thomas but he is forcing his shot a bit too much this season and it is costing us. I do understand it is a catch 22 since we also wouldn't be where we are without his scoring. I am also starting to notice (as pointed out in this forum) his defensive inefficiencies. What is driving me particularly mad this season is his constant circus drives to the basket followed by an acrobatic layup attempt and his constant b*tching for a foul, often times failing to hustle back on defense to complain. Hopefully he took a page out of Hardens book last night and learned how to do the arm flail flop to get a few more foul calls going his way.
I think his scoring would be more effective in a 6th man role, spark off the bench.

That being said I'd start Rozier who to me acts more as a true point. With this being the starting 5.

Rozier
Bradley
Crowder
Jonas
Horford

Obviously our scoring takes a hit but I do believe that Jonas and Bradley can score more given the opportunity, something Thomas currently takes away from them on the offensive end.
I'm sure those with stats will prove me wrong, this is simply what I believe from watching the Celtics every night. There is also no stat for complaining to the ref every play.. if there was Thomas could possibly be the league leader.

[jambr380]

What is funny is that there are a lot of people who would rather have IT/Smart starting with Roz/AB off the bench. I guess that says a lot for how good our backcourt depth is. I like Rozier a lot, but not sure it is fair to him or the team to leapfrog him over IT/Smart, yet.

As for IT, he has been great this year - he is 9th in the league in scoring in less mpg than a lot of other players. His efficiency has also been very decent for a team leading scorer where he expected to 'bail' the team out of tough situations. I do agree, though, sometimes he takes really ill-advised shots and he seems like the only guy on our team who cares about his scoring average. I like him starting, but would prefer he was like a 20ppg player with more awareness for his teammates, at times.

Overall, it is hard to complain with IT, but everybody can stand to improve in some sense.

[green_bballers13]

Rozier looked good last night. He's bigger than IT, and should be able to play better defense. I'd be shocked if he becomes as good of a scorer as IT (who is a top 10 penetrating player at any position in the league, in my opinion).

By the time that Rozier is capable of being a regular starter, I think IT's FA status will force the issue of whether IT starts here or somewhere else. I doubt the C's or another team give him $25m per year to come off the bench. I think IT gets this much $.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I'm with Coach Brad Stevens on this.

[chambers]

lol
absolutely no way in hell.

[apc]

Honestly I don't think IT can handle being benched.

[coffee425]

Benching an all-star is already crazy enough, but replacing with someone that isnt even the point-guard of the second unit...
nahhh

[rollie mass]

bench a 26pt a game shooter a truly mercurial point guard that can also shoot and dole out assists
that guy carries this teamnight after night
you put isaiah on 2nd team and this squad would go super nova ,youmight as well trade him and have him haunt you for the rest of his career-
i'm more concerned that the groin problem will be lingering but he is like old school celtics -he will play and he will figure it out

[DefenseWinsChamps]

We should move Horford to the bench too. And Bradley. And Crowder.

Roll out a Jackson-Young-Green-Mickey-Zeller lineup. Our bench would be the best in the league. It would teach Horford, Bradley, Crowder, and Thomas to stop scoring so much and initiating the offense. This would get everyone involved more, giving everyone an equal amount of shots and scoring opportunities, instead of encouraging our best offensive players to initiate the offense and make scoring decisions.

[Who]

Trade IT

[D Dub]

His body language is terrible. 

He's our best player, knows it, and makes no attempt to hide his dismay when his teammates miss open shots.   I get it, he works very hard to get others good looks --- and we're a terrible 3 of shooting team.  It must be frustrating.   

But if you are going to be the face of the franchise more leadership is required.  Like Pierce use to say, can't get too high with the victories nor too low with the failures.   

To me, it looks like he's a drag on morale right now.   

I'm sure the situation could be mended if Danny would just trade for Noel already --- but IT needs to look in the mirror and ask if he's cut out to be the captain of the Boston Celtics.   And if he can't, Brad needs to do his job and put the kid in his place. 

I love the guy, his game and his winning at all cost mindset--- but he can be a better teammate and that's what we need right now if we're going to salvage this season.     

[otherdave]

Sorry IT fans.....just my unscientific, unprove-able impressions:

Team ball movement seems much better when IT is not in game (defense as well).  With him out, ball whips around the perimeter resulting in a wide open shot.

IT seems to be a little bit of a selfish player and I think sometimes players defer to him a bit (which doesn't help).

He went for 37 against Philly and NOP this year which I think is fool's gold.  I looked up some of his numbers in playoffs last 2 years and against contenders this year:

Clev 2015 playoffs:  42% 2 pt FG, 17% 3 pt FG, 97% FT, 7.0 assists, 3.5 turnovers, 17.5 points

Atla 2016 playoffs:  47% 2 pt FG, 28% 3 pt FG, 81% FT, 5.0 assists, 2.3 turnovers, 24.2 points

11/3/16 CLE           8-13  2pt FG, 0-6  3pt FG, 14-14 FT, 6 assists, 3 TO, 30 pts

11/18  GSW           3-6   2pt FG, 1-6  3pt FG, 9-9 FT, 4 assists, 1 TO, 18 pts

11/25 SAS             6-12  2pt FG, 3-9  3 pt FG, 3-4 FT, 8 assists, 2 TO,  24 pts


I realize some say stats are for fools, and I know I have presented a small sample size.  And people will say most players numbers go down against better teams, and some of his teammates where injured and that effected the dynamic, etc.

Overall though, I find his shooting inefficient, which is troubling given the volume of shots (and his size a defensive liability).

He will only carry the C's so far  ..... one of the necessary steps to the next banner is learning to play (as a team) without IT (yes a painful step).

Is he a great player? Yes   Fun and entertaining to watch? hell yes!  Do we have a better alternative right at this moment? Probs not, but given the opportunity others will improve and make their own mark.

But yes Virginia, when IT is playing for some other team, the sun will still come up everyday and the C's will be that much closer to another banner.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

No player on the Celtics will satisfy you guys. As soon as you start someone else you will turn on them at any hint of underperformance.

[iadera]

These kind of topics are making me leave this forum.There are very few PG's that play on this level in whole NBA but for us no. Rozier is better.  You people are realy funny. At least.

[droopdog7]

I'm fine with using IT off the bench but I am not starting Rozier.  He hasn't earned and he isn't a true PG either.