Author Topic: Where does AB rank at his position?  (Read 3508 times)

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Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2016, 01:18:00 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Is Antetokounmpo not considered a SG?

Same thing with Jimmy Butler, I know he's playing more SF this year, but overall I might still consider him a SG, I dunno.

Those two are both better than Bradley, but you could choose not to classify them as SG.

Giannis is a forward, though he handles the ball a lot.

Butler is playing at the 3 this year for the most part.
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Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2016, 01:18:15 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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By RPM he's 26th.  Ouch.

Yet another example of why I don't put too much stock on RPM.
I was going to ask about advanced stats.  And while we may want to ignore RPM, I going to speculate that there is at least a grain of truth there.

I would speculate that AV is somewhere between 10-20.

Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2016, 01:27:32 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Is Antetokounmpo not considered a SG?

Same thing with Jimmy Butler, I know he's playing more SF this year, but overall I might still consider him a SG, I dunno.

Those two are both better than Bradley, but you could choose not to classify them as SG.

Giannis is a forward, though he handles the ball a lot.

Butler is playing at the 3 this year for the most part.

According to bball-reference, Giannis has spent 62% of his time playing SG this year, though the last 3 years most of his time was at SF.

Butler's the opposite, with most of the last 3 years at SG, but 79% at SF this year.

Though I do question the accuracy of that bball-reference metric, I think you got to say Giannis is a SG this year.

Though if you want to further confuse things, ESPN lists Giannis as the starting PG on the Bucks depth chart, with Snell at SG and Parker at SF.


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Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2016, 02:23:32 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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To go with the qualification somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, I doubt Giannis is guarding the opposing 2 guard most of the time.

That Bucks team is a weird mess, though, especially with Middleton out.

I think it's safe to say Giannis wouldn't play SG on the vast majority of teams in the league. 

If you want to list him as a 6'11'' shooting guard, though, it's clear he'd be ahead of AB.
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Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2016, 02:37:53 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'm a little confused on thinking Reddick and Lou Williams are in the mix. Reddick averages less points, 6 less rebounds a game and certainly not as good a defensive player as bradley by a mile.

I get he is an awesome shooter, but as a whole he really isn't in the same league as Bradley.

Louis Williams is having a career year shooting the ball and scores a crazy amount for his role off the bench. However, would be hard to say he is as good as normal if his shooting returns to his career levels. His defense is very average or worse and certainly does not rebound like bradley.


Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2016, 02:56:16 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm a little confused on thinking Reddick and Lou Williams are in the mix. Reddick averages less points, 6 less rebounds a game and certainly not as good a defensive player as bradley by a mile.

I get he is an awesome shooter, but as a whole he really isn't in the same league as Bradley.

Louis Williams is having a career year shooting the ball and scores a crazy amount for his role off the bench. However, would be hard to say he is as good as normal if his shooting returns to his career levels. His defense is very average or worse and certainly does not rebound like bradley.


I don't think those guys are better than AB, but they're probably the next names on the list at the position and some people might mention them (though those people probably aren't Celtics fans).
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2016, 02:59:05 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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By RPM he's 26th.  Ouch.

Yet another example of why I don't put too much stock on RPM.
I was going to ask about advanced stats.  And while we may want to ignore RPM, I going to speculate that there is at least a grain of truth there.

I would speculate that AV is somewhere between 10-20.

RPM has Avery behind Marco Belinelli, Vince Carter, and Gerald Henderson, among others.

Notably it has him at -1.55 on defense.

Do you think that really accurately describes Avery's impact?  That he hurts the team more with his poor defense than he helps it with his offense?

Because that's the story RPM is telling.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2016, 03:09:47 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2016, 03:17:05 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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By RPM he's 26th.  Ouch.

Yet another example of why I don't put too much stock on RPM.
I was going to ask about advanced stats.  And while we may want to ignore RPM, I going to speculate that there is at least a grain of truth there.

I would speculate that AV is somewhere between 10-20.
RPM type stats are so difficult with sports because of how guys improve etc etc.

Its useless with young teams and players and I think AB playing with Isaiah and in front of Smart makes it strange.

AB is first team all defense but has a negative dpm. his opm is quite good. This seems to make sense as playing with Thomas means a lot of points get scored when you are on the floor. Playing in front of Smart means when you come off the floor your team doesnt feel the defensive dropoff most teams will feel when they lose a 1st team all defense guard.
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Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2016, 05:23:23 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I'm a little confused on thinking Reddick and Lou Williams are in the mix. Reddick averages less points, 6 less rebounds a game and certainly not as good a defensive player as bradley by a mile.

I get he is an awesome shooter, but as a whole he really isn't in the same league as Bradley.

Louis Williams is having a career year shooting the ball and scores a crazy amount for his role off the bench. However, would be hard to say he is as good as normal if his shooting returns to his career levels. His defense is very average or worse and certainly does not rebound like bradley.
Here is a question.  How much does having a great shooter on the floor impact the game, even if they aren't scoring points?  I think that's how guys like Reddick and Korver have an effect on the game.  Korver specifically is hell on a defense because they can run so much off of him.

Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2016, 05:31:33 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I'm a little confused on thinking Reddick and Lou Williams are in the mix. Reddick averages less points, 6 less rebounds a game and certainly not as good a defensive player as bradley by a mile.

I get he is an awesome shooter, but as a whole he really isn't in the same league as Bradley.

Louis Williams is having a career year shooting the ball and scores a crazy amount for his role off the bench. However, would be hard to say he is as good as normal if his shooting returns to his career levels. His defense is very average or worse and certainly does not rebound like bradley.
Here is a question.  How much does having a great shooter on the floor impact the game, even if they aren't scoring points?  I think that's how guys like Reddick and Korver have an effect on the game.  Korver specifically is hell on a defense because they can run so much off of him.

If Avery weren't shooting over 40% from three you could ask that question.  But he requires just as much attention from the defense this season from deep, in addition to all the other positives he brings.

Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2016, 05:42:57 PM »

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Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2016, 06:28:18 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I'm a little confused on thinking Reddick and Lou Williams are in the mix. Reddick averages less points, 6 less rebounds a game and certainly not as good a defensive player as bradley by a mile.

I get he is an awesome shooter, but as a whole he really isn't in the same league as Bradley.

Louis Williams is having a career year shooting the ball and scores a crazy amount for his role off the bench. However, would be hard to say he is as good as normal if his shooting returns to his career levels. His defense is very average or worse and certainly does not rebound like bradley.
Here is a question.  How much does having a great shooter on the floor impact the game, even if they aren't scoring points?  I think that's how guys like Reddick and Korver have an effect on the game.  Korver specifically is hell on a defense because they can run so much off of him.

If Avery weren't shooting over 40% from three you could ask that question.  But he requires just as much attention from the defense this season from deep, in addition to all the other positives he brings.
As well as Avery is shooting, I suspect defenses still don't prepare for him in the same way as they do pure shooters. The set Atl runs with Korver running through screens really puts defenses in a bind.

Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2016, 09:50:41 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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As well as Avery is shooting, I suspect defenses still don't prepare for him in the same way as they do pure shooters. The set Atl runs with Korver running through screens really puts defenses in a bind.

I hope that continues to be the case and they leave AB open cos he is knocking them down at a nice 40% clip and we are enjoying the benefits.  Until teams wise up that AB is actually a really good shooter now, let's have him make em pay with some easy 3's.

AB is known for his defense but in Brad Stevens system he is also thriving offensively now.

Re: Where does AB rank at his position?
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2016, 05:06:31 AM »

Offline Greyman

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By RPM he's 26th.  Ouch.

Yet another example of why I don't put too much stock on RPM.
I was going to ask about advanced stats.  And while we may want to ignore RPM, I going to speculate that there is at least a grain of truth there.

I would speculate that AV is somewhere between 10-20.
RPM type stats are so difficult with sports because of how guys improve etc etc.

Its useless with young teams and players and I think AB playing with Isaiah and in front of Smart makes it strange.

AB is first team all defense but has a negative dpm. his opm is quite good. This seems to make sense as playing with Thomas means a lot of points get scored when you are on the floor. Playing in front of Smart means when you come off the floor your team doesnt feel the defensive dropoff most teams will feel when they lose a 1st team all defense guard.

TP When team stats (number of points scored against the team) are applied to individuals, they can distort the picture. AB is also up against the top opposition players most of the time. If AB wasn't out there with IT, the number of points conceded by the team would be greater I imagine.

Someone may find stats to disprove that, I won't believe them.