Author Topic: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16  (Read 46963 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #555 on: December 06, 2016, 07:25:37 AM »

Offline Rivers23

  • Neemias Queta
  • Posts: 10
  • Tommy Points: 3
You can't be unhappy with this game, this was the best game the Celtics have played whole season. Starting Jerebko was a great move, I think that should become a regular occurrence. Still too many 3s taken imo and those 4th quarter turnovers were unfortunate but oh well.

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #556 on: December 06, 2016, 07:32:21 AM »

Offline Granath

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2154
  • Tommy Points: 567
had to take a final, so i missed the game...twitter is saying the refs screwed us over apparently? i saw the horford miss, that was tough to watch, but, it is what it is...

would you recommend i try to find a replay of this one? was it a good game?

No, I would not recommend finding a replay of this game. I *rarely* complain about the refs but it was so bad last night I turned the game off. I have rarely seen a game called in such a one-sided manner. It was not even the Jordan Rules out there in Houston last night. It was the "I'm betting for Houston to win" rules out there.

Had it been called by competent referees the Cs would have won by 10 points. So skip watching the game because it will probably just give you ulcers.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #557 on: December 06, 2016, 08:43:22 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7816
  • Tommy Points: 560
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
He was doing better than AB lol, at least when harden pulls up he can contest better and it was true that harden wasn't THAT hot when Smart switched in for AB on him

lol Harden made only 8FGs tonight and without video I can tell you 3 off the top of my head, one 3 he walked down and drained when smart got caught on a screen and the 2 blowbys in the 4th Q! that means only 5 shots left, are you telling me those 5 were all on AB? I would bet not! Harden took 18fts and 6 were on 2 3s b2b where smart fouled him! this is all off of memory so I wish I had video to show, smaht was terrible on Harden tonight too!

LOL who got him so hot? Smart did get burnt, but Harden was NOT as hot as he started when AB was on him. Don't get me wrong, AB is still a better 1 on 1 defender than smart, it's just that the matchup was so bad for him.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #558 on: December 06, 2016, 08:54:47 AM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7477
  • Tommy Points: 736
Calling Avery 3 a 2 was a killer but Thomas and Horford both missed game-winning lay-ups in the final seconds. Horford's miss was particularly bad. It's a totally different conversation today if Horford makes a wide open lay up.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #559 on: December 06, 2016, 08:58:54 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7816
  • Tommy Points: 560
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
Calling Avery 3 a 2 was a killer but Thomas and Horford both missed game-winning lay-ups in the final seconds. Horford's miss was particularly bad. It's a totally different conversation today if Horford makes a wide open lay up.
Yup I totally agree, Al should be back at the celtics training grounds working his finishing with McHale and Parish
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #560 on: December 06, 2016, 12:07:28 PM »

Offline iadera

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 959
  • Tommy Points: 74
  • CroCeltics
The thing that worries me is that we still have no winn against any strong team. SA, GS, Cavs, Rockets and I'm affraid we lose next one against Raptors at home.

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #561 on: December 06, 2016, 12:17:52 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7739
  • Tommy Points: 804
He was doing better than AB lol, at least when harden pulls up he can contest better and it was true that harden wasn't THAT hot when Smart switched in for AB on him

lol Harden made only 8FGs tonight and without video I can tell you 3 off the top of my head, one 3 he walked down and drained when smart got caught on a screen and the 2 blowbys in the 4th Q! that means only 5 shots left, are you telling me those 5 were all on AB? I would bet not! Harden took 18fts and 6 were on 2 3s b2b where smart fouled him! this is all off of memory so I wish I had video to show, smaht was terrible on Harden tonight too!

LOL who got him so hot? Smart did get burnt, but Harden was NOT as hot as he started when AB was on him. Don't get me wrong, AB is still a better 1 on 1 defender than smart, it's just that the matchup was so bad for him.

You keep saying got hot but completely ignoring the fact that he made 8FG in the entire game!! To add to that, Harden took 18 fts right? Well, like I said I don't have video but at the most, before Smart gave Harden fouls on b2b 3s he had taken only 8 (could have been less b/c I don't remember when the 8 occured)! I don't even recall when he took the 8 but I can assure you of 10 of the 18 right now. 6 on those Smart fouls and 4 on 2 fouls on AB! So by saying AB let him get hot is pure BS but cute! Furthermore, only from memory Harden made 4 of his 8FGs in the first Q and I may be remembering it incorrectly but I think AB was benched before the 5 min mark and at that time Harden had made only 2.

Point of all this is to say, Harden had 37, can't really say anyone stopped him even though thinking back on it, they actually didn't do as bad a job as that number suggests.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 12:34:15 PM by ImShakHeIsShaq »
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #562 on: December 06, 2016, 12:48:26 PM »

Offline BlackCeltic

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 865
  • Tommy Points: 64
Jerebco had no business playing down the stretch in the 4th. Two bonehead plays in a row cost us the lead and the game. Its about time that coad brad gets it through his head that we cant rely on him. Too little too late putting Smart in, even though we had a chance to win in the end.

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #563 on: December 06, 2016, 05:15:12 PM »

Offline walker834

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Tommy Points: 238
keep hope alive.  lol.  For the first time in a while i wonder what it would be like if we never get there and end up like the hawks but we'll be alright. I'm not completely sold on Big Al yet.  Good signing and i like how he fits and how versatile he is but his game at the same time we seem to be lacking something.  Brad is a good coach and will figure it out. None of these guys are Pierce, KG and Ray or Bird, Mchale and Parish yet though.

I also don't understand why Smart wasn't on Harden.

The consensus has always been that we are going to get there though and I've always felt taht way. 

We are 21 games in.  Just something about how this team has played so far i don't like though.  We coast.

They had James Harden we didn't.  We can't afford to coast when they have Harden and we don't.

Teh nba isn't like it used to be where you could assemble a team with a certain identity. some of these guys are what they are.

Horford is a really good player but when we aren't doing anything to separate ourselves from other teams we are basically what we are. 

Brad needs to work his magic or something.  We have a lot of road games coming up where hopefully we wake up.

My thinking is that so far this season we are counter-punchers. We are responders.

We aren't the same team who, like last year, set the tone of the game and put the opposition on their heals.

Not sure why that is. It's not Al's fault. My sense is that Bradley and Crowder both came into the season a bit complacent and a bit entitled. But that's just my sense.

Didn't we have last years team the same from the year before? We lost ET and Sully and added Horford and we also have a ton of young players and some injuries early. I think the team is playing well. We almost won this game tonight. We had our chances. I don't feel like this team has really jelled yet. The celtics haven't reached that level of comfort with each other that makes for cohesive team work. I think that's why the team defense looks clunkier this year. I think by after the New Year this team will look lot better barring injuries.

Good post. I agree about reaching that level of comfort. You can word that better than I could.  I think it starts on the defensive end though.  We have guys who can score on this team.  Brad runs this team differently than Doc though. I think with Doc it did start on the defensive end where we would really struggle offensively at times.  This team Brad is trying to get us to a level of comfort in ways where we are truly dominant.  I still think it starts with defensive energy though which this team lacks at times.  Both sides of the floor really.  Marathon not a sprint though....

At times this team can look downright lackadasical at times vs being a well oiled machine.  As I was saying in another post we really had everyone playing their typical games but less  this game vs guys stepping up.  james harden had a game against us.  They did a good job on isaiah.  Bradley had a bad first half and turned it around the second where we almost got there if they counted that 3.  Horford played real well and his usual self minus that m issed layup.  I'm not huge on numbers but Marcus had his usual game and made plays at the end in crunch time.  jerebko did some little things and provided energy.  Crowder had his moments and put up his usual game.  Everyone did the usual I guess.  Ko was his usual lackadasical self.   We played well.  It wasn't enough.  No one really stepped up beyond that. Right now we are a good team that really isn't turning these losses into wins at this point.

We are playing somewhat physical but I'd like to see a little more.  Just a little extra as the season goes. Past seasons it always seemed like we had that clutch gene and would really play up to opponents and were that underdog that would have some really clutch performances.  This year I think we are  a better team where it seems like we can coast to wins and really dominate, but I'm seeing the opposite.

We remind me of the hawks so far and I realize that isn't the end all be all.  I hope we can do better than that.  I hope Horford just isn't that.  We lack a lowpost presence and Horford kind of does well in a more all around game.  He plays tough but doesn't really provide us with what we need sometimes which is an enforcer down low in the paint who rebounds, blocks shots and can score inside.

I think as the season goes we will get better though.  I think most nights we beat Houston. Gordon went off and so did Harden. They did a good job on Isaiah limiting his playmaking.  We didn't attack the basket as much a s we could have imo with other guys.   We don't have that one guy though.  I don't think that's even the end all be all though.  I think some people do which gets me thinking how are we supposed to beat the steph curry's and lebrons when we are just what we are.  We have to do better in ways.

I think it's both.  I think we have to get more comfortable and play better and more physical. Plus I think we do need a low post player to go with Horford.  Crowder is a solid wing and Brown is here and going to get better but our wings need to attack more as well when  Isaiah is being limited.

It starts with defense imo.  some of these guys like harden are  going to have their games though.   We can limit them from getting that hot that's about it.  Marcus should have been on him imo to at least slow him a little bit and at least physical him.  Bradley is a really good defender and all nba but he's almost too nice and not that physical.  This is why the nba is messed up. Marcus is really the guy to slow people like that and a  better defender than even bradley.

The nba interferes when it's a competitive sport.  They vote bradley to the all defensive when we all know  Marcus is our best defender but he can't play his game which is more physical.  It gives an unfair advantage when people should be allowed to fight their own battles. Otherwise you end up with a trending league that caters to the steph curry's of the league.  Lebron still gets his though when he's a physical offensive player but we can't combat that with physical defense.

I was watching espn the other day and they were whining about Marcus.  I can't stand the media sometimes for that reason.  It's a bunch of biased bs where they are taking physical play out of the game to support some agenda.  That's the issue with the media and the internet in general it's a bunch of idiots who sit behind a computer screen and judge people and can't deal with reality and what actually is.  They have it twisted too sometimes who's actually doing what. If Chad Ford, Marcellus Wiley and Michelle Beadle are always right that's a sad world we live in.

The league has always catered to physical offense and passive aggresiveness.  Physical defense is something else entirely. Bill Russell never would have been able to do what he did. Bill Russell was smart.  So is Marcus Smart.  So is KG. Unselfish smart players.  It sucks when the league is against them. It's overlooked what they do.  These guys aren't the bad guys of the nba.  They are some of the best the league has to offer.  Tom Brady same thing.  That's who he is.  When the league is punishing these guys it's not condusive to winning.

I just found this funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLq1NNWNTPM

 A lot of them are more concerned with what Marcus looks like.  He's trying to win games.  It leaves him open to criticism though. TO should understand this lol. Marcus isn't even a diva like TO although TO is probably even more concerned with his image vs winning.  I really don't think Marcus is that concerned with his image or what he looks like.  He does need to be aware it leaves him open to criticism by people who are.  Probably why TO doesn't have a superbowl ring he became too concerned with his image. I don't mind TO though.  I think he's alright and  he's definately misunderstood but what I say is probably true. The league needs to let Marcus play his game though. It's not him whining about it.

They don't want people getting hurt etc, etc.  I can understand that.  But how they do that isn't always the most understanding either.  Play better etc, etc..  Be more understanding yourself etc, etc.. It's a competitive sport and players should be allowed to play defense. Marcus could actually hurt someone and I agree on the flopping, but so can offensive players with some of the calls refs give them.  Lebron is allowed to roid up  and drive like a mack truck through the lane and no issue with that as long as there is money in it.  Espn can spout nonsense and no issue with that either as long as there are ratings in it.  It's their own mess they created themselves.

I guess the point is is what is the root cause. I don't think Marcus would be flopping if the league didn't cater to certain kinds of players that line their pockets.  I can understand going after marcus in this situation and trying to get flops out of the game but they still aren't addressing the root cause and lack of understanding. Lebron is a mack truck too.  He might as well be sponsored by chevron.  james harden is just as bad sometimes.  Houston we have a problem.  It's no different than baseball and the steroid era.  It's greed.  It's to the detriment of so  many other people that play the game a certain way and think even bigger in ways.

We've got the little guy. Russell vs Chamberlain etc, etc.  David vs Goliath.  We have great players too.

Massachusetts in and of itself as a state is what it is.  It is a defensive hub to a lot of things regarding this country.  Houston and Cleveland are what they are too.  Even Golden State or the Lakers for that matter.  I can respect that. I might even like them and be that understanding to do that.  But these people can't tell me what's right and wrong either especially when they are wrong and being hypocritical and trying to gain an unfair advantage and not addressing their own bs. Also not a rant or a tirade.  I'm actually just sitting here typing something pretty funny and true.  Actually even more understanding than that too but it's just funny.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 09:48:47 PM by walker834 »

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #564 on: December 06, 2016, 06:16:11 PM »

Offline mctyson

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
  • Tommy Points: 372
You can't be unhappy with this game, this was the best game the Celtics have played whole season. Starting Jerebko was a great move, I think that should become a regular occurrence. Still too many 3s taken imo and those 4th quarter turnovers were unfortunate but oh well.

I actually think the Spurs game at home was the better game, but this wasn't far off.  Houston is a good team, and nearly beating them on the road when they are hot is a good effort.

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #565 on: December 06, 2016, 09:27:26 PM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14446
  • Tommy Points: 972
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
Didn't see the game live but watched the highlights. Two points:
1) The flagrant one called on Harden was the right call. Rockets announcers were claiming it was a flop. There is NO WAY anyone who gets hit like that can flop. It was smack across the cheek at high speed. Harden is now on my most-hated list.
2) Horford's last second layup was an easy shot and he just missed. It was NOT a difficult running shot, just a missed layup.

The SA and HOU games show that this team is not far off from competing at the highest levels. One significant move this season puts them right in the mix.

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #566 on: December 06, 2016, 09:58:22 PM »

Offline walker834

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Tommy Points: 238
We need to play more physical defense and be allowed to do that.  Smart picked up two quick fouls on Harden.   Also need Noel, Boogie or Love I feel.  Or another shooter and rebounder to come if we can't get those guys.  Bogut wouldn't hurt for cheap either.

Our wings need to be more aggressive taking it to the basket also when Isaiah is being key'd on.  It wouldn't hurt to have Horford get down on the box more too when that happens especially when we lack anyone else who can do that.

If our wings collapse the defense when Isaiah is being key'd on it opens things up for shooters. Bradley and Crowder did that a bit but we could have used more that way.

If we add Bogut and an additional shooter that's not bad.  Rozier is still growing though.

I still like Nerlens or any of those guys really.  As it stands we have good personnel.  I don't think it's the end all be all that we have to make a trade although getting down to it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 10:04:49 PM by walker834 »

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #567 on: December 06, 2016, 10:06:17 PM »

Offline walker834

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Tommy Points: 238
I think most nights we beat Houston pretty handily.  Harden got hot.  We got off to a terrible start with Bradley being passive offensively and clanking shots and not containing Harden.  No one was rebounding either off those Bradley misses.  He was just coming off screens being passive and was clanking shots.  Later he started driving more and it was opening up shots for both him and other people.

The nba season is a marathon not a sprint.  We are still familiarizing ourselves with teams.   It's our first matchup with them. 

Best thing to do is learn from it and gameplan for it next time.  I expect this team to bounce back regardless.

We are slow starters right now which is ok.  I'd rather be that than get ahead of ourselves.  This team will go on a run.

I question what our ceiling is somewhat. I don't want to be the hawks again this year but we are a good to very good team regardless.  I think we need another big guy and a wing in particular but Jaylen is coming...  I'm not fully sold on Crowder or Horford being able to do everything themselves.  Even Isaiah.  Teams key on him and we struggle.  Bradley too when he has a tough matchup. 

It's early though.  I think the guys we have can learn and get better for next time.

I don't think we need a superstar.  I've never understood that mindset.  It's about having the best team period in the nba.  People become stars.  We have the right pieces and best team where players do what they do and compliment each other we can win  a championship.  You need talent but it's about having the best team period. Best coached.  Best period.

Superstars are overrated sometimes.  You put them all on the same team and they seemingly have the most talent they don't always win.  Talent is relative that way.  Some superstars you slow them enough they don't know how to play with other  people.  Some superstars are very overrated that way.  Talent is one thing.  Some players are more talented in other ways.  You need talent and top talent though. But how that is defined is relative.

You put lebron, dwade  and bosh togehter they couldn't beat san antonio or dallas. Those were better teams at the time and more talented.

Brad Stevens understands this and why he is a good coach for us. You put Butler vs Duke before the season and people wouldn't even expect Butler to compete.  Duke is that much more talented and Butler lost in the championship but it was real close.

The Lebrons of the world have their achilles heel.   They are talented but not that great.

The best team usually wins.  Sometimes not. 

paul pierce didn't put up the numbers Lebron but I always felt good with that matchup because Pierce was much closer to lebron then people realize. He didn't do it at the detriment of the players around him so much.  He was talented in other ways. The talent level was close enough where he was able to do that. He didn't need to fill the box score with 30, 10 and 10. Bill Russell vs Chamberlain same thing. 

With Russell we were able to assemble a better team that won how many in a row.  With Chamberlain I don't think we could have done that.

Boogie Cousins is kind of like that. But I'd still take Boogie.  I'd take Chamberlain too but not over Russell.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 10:42:49 PM by walker834 »

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #568 on: December 06, 2016, 10:46:16 PM »

Offline walker834

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Tommy Points: 238
Lebron is a great player.  But I bet it was the same thing before the celtics ran off how many in a row with Russell.  most people thought Chamberlain was the greatest in the world and couldn't lose.  We were underdogs.  That's not how it went though.

Some players are talented and better fits from a team perspective.  Theya re more talented that way imo.  Some guys are physical freaks and do amazing highlight things but doesn't mean it's conducive to good basketball or winning.

Tom Brady was overlooked by how many people. he's the most winning quarterback of all time.  He's not a highlight reel media darling that way.  He was a nice skinny kid no one would have gave a **** about while they were hyping up someone else.

He's the greatest quarterback and most winning quarterback of all time.  No one wanted to draft him except the pats.

Do you think espn saw this?  Nope. Next time you pass a homeless person on the street think about that.

Tom Brady it's really simple.  He cared a lot more about the people around him then they cared about him. He came from a good family that way. Some of these guys don't.

Tom Brady "I'm the best decision  you ever made".

That's not a knock on these other guys either.  people come from different things and have d ifferent ways and have different struggles I  understand that but that quote is so Tom Brady. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 11:13:06 PM by walker834 »

Re: Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16
« Reply #569 on: December 06, 2016, 11:03:57 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
Walker, on not needing a superstar you could be correct, but the fact is, in the NBA you can play 5 guys at a time and in more importantly the way contracts are structured the only way to negotiate a contract below market value is to be a superstar. Superstars are more valuable than anyone else.

Kawhi Leonard seems to be the best example of what you are talking about, but dude is a star. Everyone knows hes a top 10 guy. Many real intelligent basketball minds(and me) call him top 5. Sometimes the guy who jumps off the page at you isnt the best for winning, but a lot of times he is.

As for Tom Brady. The only thing to really take from that is that scouting is really flawed. If you base your plan to rebuild on finding your Tom Brady in the 6th round. You are really freaking dumb.

Youve also got to be real careful comparing across sports. There is no QB in basketball.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.