Celtics (12-8) at Rockets (13-7) Game #21 12/5/16

[walker834]

Isaiah Thomas last pick in the draft.  Ainge was high on him for a long time. The little guy.

I don't think Isaiah is Tom brady but he is our quarterback for now.

Ainge found him.  I think teams do do that and find guys like that.  Ainge did.

[walker834]

Even Paul Pierce slid down drafts.  He had a rough couple  years in college nad he slid.  Even Larry Bird people didn't want to draft him because they weren't sure if he'd play or not.  Red didn't listen and took a chance whether he would sit out or not.  Russell was the same thing because he was refusing to play for certain cities because they were racist.  We traded for him.  The celtics have never had the #1 pick in the draft and are the most winning franchise in nba history.

We were never that fortunate to win the lottery.   The celtics are a smart organization though do what it takes to win.  We've never been that lucky though.  Yet our mascot is lucky.

What made the celtics great isn't waiting around for people to care about us though.  We aren't that lucky. The celtics mystique and all of that is that but what makes us great is something else.

The celtics do what it takes to win period.  it's never entailed having the  1st pick.

[Ilikesports17]

Can you state the point of all this for me a little more clearly and succinctly.

How can we relate this to the Celtics?

[walker834]

I think I said that.  The celtics do what it takes to win.  We don't necessarily need a superstar.  We might not be able to get one.  All we can do is get better ourselves and hope that happens but it might not.  I think from a team perspective the teams we put out there usually are that.  It's the best team we can possibly put out there period. 

Superstars don't always win.  The best teams do though.  Sometimes not but that's all we can really do is try to put the best team out there.

I'll take the best team over the best player.  5 guys is better than 1 if the talent level is there and they play well together and make each other better.

[walker834]

Lebron, Dwade and Bosh could not beat Dallas or San Antonio. Tohse teams had Dirk and Duncan but overall they were just better teams.  Duncan was aging and wasn't in that class of mvp or best player at the time.  Those Dallas teams on paper weren't the most talented either but they beat those guys.  They were the better team.  Dirk himself wasn't the top pick in the draft.  He had some great years.  NEither was kobe for that matter.  They became that.  Most of them didn't win when they didn't have the best team though. 

People always say Kobe rode this guy or that guy.  The best teams usually win period.

If we win it won't be because we had so and so either.  It will be because we had the best team.

People have it in their heads that you need these top guys to win and you do in ways, but if you really look at it it's usually the best team. 

Detroit. The lakers and celtics.  The celtics in the 70's. The celtics when they were beating chamberlain.  It's the best teams that win.  Talent has something to do with it but it's not everything.

Detroit did it twice with Isaiah Thomas and those guys and rodman.  They also did it with Chauncey while KG was losing and so were other great players.  So was lebron.  It's the best teams that win.

We did it with Havlicek and Cowens when other great players were losing.  Kareem was.

Tom Brady is great but even the pats lose when they don't have the best team. It really doesnt matter which sport.  They are all team sports.  Baseball etc...  Tom Brady lost to denver because they had a better team.  People will say oh no Von Miller was the best player that year.  Actually he had the better team.  He had Ware and all those guys that allowed him to do that.  The best player is just media perception.  Von Miller didn't even get mvp i don't think. Did he?  He was probably the best player that year but he also had the best team. mvp anyways isn't always even the best player. It's just media perception.  There is no way to prove that with any certainty.  All that can be proven is who has the best team. That's why they play. To see who wins.  Sometimes teams get robbed. Have bad games etc and the best team doesn't win. But it's usually the best team that wins. That's why they play for wins and losses to prove that.

Michael jordan was losing all those years because Bird and Magic had better teams.  jordan was still young and his team wasn't really matured to that point either where they could compete with those teams.  They had better players and teams.  Those teams were ridiculous because they really did have the best players and teams. But it's not liek there weren't other great players in the league.  Doc had Dominique but couldn't compete with that.

My point being regarding the celtics is it's a team game as much as anything.  just because we don'thave so and so isn't the end all be all.  We have talent and if we put the most talent out there and play well together it doesn't matter. If you look at the history of any sport even basketball it's the best teams that win.  Not the most talent all the time. Not the best players all the time.  It's a combination and the best teams.

just common sense.  I know speaking common sense in a world of crazy doesn't always make sense but what I'm saying makes perfect sense.

If we put the best team out there period it doesn't matter. There is no set way.  People who can't see that are the ones who are missing it.

It can be done in a variety of ways but it's the best team who wins. If you look at the teams and players I listed I just proved that.

so regarding the celtics if we add nerlens noel or whoever and it gives us the best team we will win period.  I'm not even sayiing he's it.  If we add Boogie.  Or Bogut and they do that we will win if we are the best team.

It doesn't matter how you get there.   A lot of these guys weren't considered the best of whatever.  Kobe was a late lottery pick.  Isaiah was the last pick in the draft.  He's an allstar.  Michael Jordan wasn't even the 1st pick in the draft and considered the best. Bird nope.  Russell. Nope. Magic Johnson yes. lebron yes.  There are probably more that aren't though.

The lakers had Magic, Malone and payton and they stunk. That happens too. There are many times in sports where teams get some super player and he goes to a team with another and the media thinks they are going to be unstoppable and they end up terrible.  That happens too.

I remember when the mavericks got Kidd, Jim jackson and Mashburn in successive drafts and people thought they were going to be the next big thing and they stunk.  Kidd did much better in nj because he was surrounded by a better team that fit his style.  He ended up going back to Dalllas later and won  a championship against Lebron, wade and Bosh because he finally was on a team that could do that.  Kidd was old at that point but still won.

[walker834]

The teams that don't win are usually teams that sit in teh lottery year after year with no plan to win and end up with a bunch of young guys not ready for the nba and can't pay them all when it comes time to.  Great players also understand you need a great team. Tom Brady could be the highest paid he realizes that in order to give the team the best shot he has a great organization around him that he can't do that to put players around him.  Tom Brady realizes he is lucky that way and there is trust between him and Bill Belichick.  The white mamba could have stayed in new jersey and been dunking on people but he realized his calling in the nba to win a championship was something else.  Still an nba champion and has more rings than Karl Malone.

My point being in a succinct way regarding the celtics is what i said 3 posts ago where you then asked me to do that.  That it doesn't matter how we get there as long as we are doing what's best to win and put the best team out there.

Some players get paid go through the nba and latch onto a team later that is actually trying to do that after y ears of getting paid.  Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.  Some players are more concerned about getting paid. So are the organizations they are on vs actually winning.

The nba is different where there is a salary structure but it's really not.   It's still a team game and teams that are trying to win have a better shot then teams that aren't.  Some teams do try to win and come up short. 

I don't think you necessarily need the lebrons of the world to do that though.  You need the best team.

[walker834]

It also doesn't matter who's getting paid what as long as it fits under the salary cap structure of the team and what they are trying to do to win.  We had Gerald Wallace for years.  It still fit under what we were trying to do which was not pay KG and Pierce anymore and pick up draft picks so we could rebuild and then we dumped his contract off on dallas for david lee where we could rid ourselves of that.  Bill Simmons used to whine about Wallace's contract so much when he didn't understand why we even had it.

We paid Tyler Zeller but it still fits under what we are trying to do where he doesn't play much and gives us that contract to make deals if need be where it's expiring in a couple years and gives us that flexibility. It also gives us a player we can play and hopefully improves and if he doesn't so be it.  If he does and we are trying to win it's still good for the celtics either way vs paying a guy that isn't.  I want Zeller to play well for that reason. 

The same with Bradley when we gave him his.  He has turned out alright.  The celtics aren't afraid to give these deals if they see something valuable in a player to them.  We have to pay someone. It's good to have space but getting players to come here that are valuable to us is something else.  We have max space regardless to get a max player and have flexibility to do other things with cap space but other than that it's really worthless.

I think the celtics do it well. They actually care about their players too and take care of them regardless.  Even Rondo.  The celtics didn't just dump  him. They gave him opportunity and tried their best to put him in a good situation.  Same with KG and Pierce.  They understand players in teh nba need to take care of themselves and get paid and all of that. But it's still a team first attitude. Even Gerald Wallace. He's still a celtic regardless.

I'd take a guy like Noel on this team if it makes sense and he gives us the best team.  It doesn't have to be lebron.  I don't know if Noel is that but I like him. I'd still shoot for Klove too or Boogie.  It really depends. The draft is also an option. Bogut is a decent short term option if we don't have to give up much.

I'd take Lebron if it fits but I'm not sure that even does or is conducent to that.  That probably isn't moreso though if you think about what we'd have to give up right now.

Ainge was willing on Durant because he was a free agent but he wasn't the end all be all either.

The team is.  A lot of people in general are too concerned with how they are affected I find vs what's best for the team.  To me it's very simple.  I try to understand w hat they are doing and what's  best for them.  Everything I say is with that in mind.