Author Topic: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East  (Read 2903 times)

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The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« on: December 03, 2016, 09:53:58 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I want it to be us. There is a situation that plays out where we start clicking on all cylinders- perfect team defense and offense. In that situation we might be able to take them down.

But more likely it's the Bulls. Think about that roster. They are built to be a perfect opponent against Lebron.

Rondo hates Lebron. He plays big in big games and you know that he will be ready if they met in a playoff series. He can switch onto Lebron in stretches, and his passing helps them when their offense struggles.

Wade knows the Lebron. He is still an elite scorer. He can play him straight up if needed.

Butler is Lebron's stopper (sorry, Boris Diaw). Butler is big, quick, competitive, and forces Lebron to play defense too.

Gibson can play defense on Lebron in stretches, especially in the post. He can also rebound against Thompson and Love.

Lopez probably doesn't get a lot of minutes in a series against the Cavs, but he can bang with Thompson and foul Lebron hard at the rim.

McBuckets and Mirotic are the wild cards. If they give you elite shooting and consistent defense, then their top 7 are just as good as the Cavs top 7.

Bobby Portis could be really important too. If he can stay on the court (IQ and fouls), playing him allows them to stay big without sacrificing defensive versatility.

Also, Grant, Valentine, and MCW are all big guards who can play both ways if needed. I don't think these guys are probably ready for a playoff series, but they could have some big minutes.

If this team could stay healthy (big if with Wade), then they can upset the Cavs. I'd still lean towards the Cavs, but they are the first team in the East who I think has a legit shot. Imagine the following scenario: The Cavs decide they don't care about the regular season and the Celtics and Raptors take the first and second seed. Because of injuries and shooting droughts, the Bulls fall all the way to the 6th seed. First round, the Cavs play the Bulls in a gritty, physical, exhausting seven game series, but we get the Knicks and are able to dispose of them in 5 (just go with me on this!). If the Cavs did win, we would have an advantage for the first game or two.

Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2016, 10:24:57 AM »

Offline TA9

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I agree. As of right now I think it's Chicago due to way they have been playing.

But I think the Celtics could pose a bigger threat to the Cavs because our team, to some extent, is more well-rounded than the Bulls'. The problem is that we have not been playing the way that is expected of us.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 10:30:08 AM by TA9 »
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2016, 10:59:20 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I agree. As of right now I think it's Chicago due to way they have been playing.

But I think the Celtics could pose a bigger threat to the Cavs because our team, to some extent, is more well-rounded than the Bulls'. The problem is that we have not been playing the way that is expected of us.

We would have to play perfect basketball to beat the Cavs - like better than the 2011 Mavs team basketball.

Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2016, 01:59:02 PM »

Online Moranis

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If I had to guess I'd say a healthy Detroit has the best chance.  They have Drummond who is just a monster down low on both ends of the floor.  They have excellent 3 point shooting from the other 4 starters in Morris, Harris, KCP, and Jackson.  They have a quality and deep bench in Johnson, Smith, Leuer, Udrih, and Baynes. 

If they can stay healthy (now that Jackson is back), I think they would pose a very difficult matchup for Cleveland. 

The other team I think could pose an interesting matchup with the Cavs is the Pacers.  George is one of the few players in the East that will make James work on both ends of the floor (Butler is the other).  They have speed and athleticism in Turner and Young which forces Love into a weird defensive matchup.  Teague and Ellis are both super fast offensive players, though Irving would likely have a field day on the other end of the floor.  Pacers have some very strong quality veterans on their bench.

I realize both Detroit and Indiana are tied for the 8th seed right now, but if they can stay relatively healthy the rest of the way, I expect both to firmly be in the playoffs. 
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2016, 02:01:04 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2016, 02:07:15 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I dont see Chicago or Detroit finishing higher than 4th meaning Cleveland could be forced to play both before the ECF. Thats two pretty tough early round matchups for them.

Ultimately I think Toronto and Boston are the 2nd and 3rd best teams but Chicago and Detroit matchup better leading to having 4 teams that can annoy Cleveland but no one that can actually beat Cleveland.
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2016, 02:15:17 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It would need to be a team with size + rebounding down low plus big, talented wing defenders.

Chicago makes some sense along those lines, although I don't think Jimmy B is really equipped to be the focal point of that team and defend LeBron full time.  Not sure they have anybody else to throw at LeBron.
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2016, 02:21:16 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Chicago will have to stay alive from 3 point land. Otherwise, Cleveland can play them the same way they played us before we got Horford: pack the paint, let bad shooters take 3s, and be physical and don't let Chicago get to the rim.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2016, 03:28:29 PM »

Online Moranis

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It would need to be a team with size + rebounding down low plus big, talented wing defenders.

Chicago makes some sense along those lines, although I don't think Jimmy B is really equipped to be the focal point of that team and defend LeBron full time.  Not sure they have anybody else to throw at LeBron.
That is why I went with Detroit and Indianapolis.  Neither is perfect i.e. Detroit could use a better defender and Indy could use a bit more size, but I think they have the right all around mix that they could actually give Cleveland trouble.  That said I can't see any team in the East taking more than 2 games against the Cavs and that might even be pushing it. 

I just don't trust Gibson and Lopez down low, and I really don't like the Wade/Rondo backcourt over the course of a long series and I can't see how Butler isn't just worn down by James over the course of a series.  I'd be a bit surprised if the Bulls won a game in a series against a healthy Cavs team and down right stunned if they won even 2.
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 11:30:52 AM »

Online Moranis

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Thinking about this some more, I've come back around to Toronto.  They are the 2nd best team in the East and were last year when they took 2 games from the Cavs in the ECF.  They have a very strong big man in Valanciunas along with a lot of big man depth.  They have a go to scorer in DeRozan, a PG that can both defend Irving and make Irving work on defense in Lowry, and they have a solid 3 and D SF in Carroll.  Joseph and Ross add quality depth in the backcourt.  Patterson is an athletic freak at PF.  Even without Sullinger, Toronto seems like the team with the best shot against the Cavs.
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2016, 12:49:40 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It would need to be a team with size + rebounding down low plus big, talented wing defenders.

Chicago makes some sense along those lines, although I don't think Jimmy B is really equipped to be the focal point of that team and defend LeBron full time.  Not sure they have anybody else to throw at LeBron.
That is why I went with Detroit and Indianapolis.  Neither is perfect i.e. Detroit could use a better defender and Indy could use a bit more size, but I think they have the right all around mix that they could actually give Cleveland trouble.  That said I can't see any team in the East taking more than 2 games against the Cavs and that might even be pushing it. 

I just don't trust Gibson and Lopez down low, and I really don't like the Wade/Rondo backcourt over the course of a long series and I can't see how Butler isn't just worn down by James over the course of a series.  I'd be a bit surprised if the Bulls won a game in a series against a healthy Cavs team and down right stunned if they won even 2.

I don't think Indy can defend nearly well enough.
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2016, 12:55:24 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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It would need to be a team with size + rebounding down low plus big, talented wing defenders.

Chicago makes some sense along those lines, although I don't think Jimmy B is really equipped to be the focal point of that team and defend LeBron full time.  Not sure they have anybody else to throw at LeBron.
That is why I went with Detroit and Indianapolis.  Neither is perfect i.e. Detroit could use a better defender and Indy could use a bit more size, but I think they have the right all around mix that they could actually give Cleveland trouble.  That said I can't see any team in the East taking more than 2 games against the Cavs and that might even be pushing it. 

I just don't trust Gibson and Lopez down low, and I really don't like the Wade/Rondo backcourt over the course of a long series and I can't see how Butler isn't just worn down by James over the course of a series.  I'd be a bit surprised if the Bulls won a game in a series against a healthy Cavs team and down right stunned if they won even 2.

I don't think Indy can defend nearly well enough.

I don't think we can really make this determination until we see what teams do at the trade deadline. If added a Noel or Bogut I think that makes a huge difference or us (provided Bogut is healthy). If the Bulls added a little more offensive firepower they become a lot tougher out.
I am not sure exactly what Toronto needs. Getting Sullinger back if he is in shape would help. They could probably use more defense on the wing also.

Cleveland could become even more of a juggernaut, they probably will add some players. Their depth is not what it used to be (one of the only things I heard Windhorst talk about on TV that I agreed with. They didn't really replace Delladova who did provide some backcourt defense (and bonus cheap shot injuries for the opposition). Dunleavy seems like he may be unable to get healthy and now JR Smith is pretty banged up (and has been awful all year) I don't think they want to play Lebron and Kyrie 35+ minutes all season with a long playoff run looming. Lebron is currently at 36.5 minutes a game considering he is about to turn 32 is that a wise move?

Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2016, 05:08:32 PM »

Online Moranis

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It would need to be a team with size + rebounding down low plus big, talented wing defenders.

Chicago makes some sense along those lines, although I don't think Jimmy B is really equipped to be the focal point of that team and defend LeBron full time.  Not sure they have anybody else to throw at LeBron.
That is why I went with Detroit and Indianapolis.  Neither is perfect i.e. Detroit could use a better defender and Indy could use a bit more size, but I think they have the right all around mix that they could actually give Cleveland trouble.  That said I can't see any team in the East taking more than 2 games against the Cavs and that might even be pushing it. 

I just don't trust Gibson and Lopez down low, and I really don't like the Wade/Rondo backcourt over the course of a long series and I can't see how Butler isn't just worn down by James over the course of a series.  I'd be a bit surprised if the Bulls won a game in a series against a healthy Cavs team and down right stunned if they won even 2.

I don't think Indy can defend nearly well enough.
I think George will do as well as anyone against James and I think they will do fine against Love and Thompson.  Defending Irving would be the problem for the Pacers. 

As I said though, I came back around to Toronto.  2nd best team in the East and I think by far the most complete team in the East outside of Cleveland.
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2016, 06:13:57 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I dunno about the Raps.  I haven't watched them really at all this year.  But looking at the stats, they appear about the same.  High end offense, below average defense.  Well below average in rebounding.  Defending LeBron will still fall entirely on Demarre Carroll.

I agree that in the East, the Raps seem like the obvious candidate, if anybody has a prayer of beating the Cavs.

Really, though, the team that beats the Cavs -- if anybody does -- will be from the West.  I'm almost certain of that.
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Re: The Contender to take down the Cavs in the East
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2016, 08:31:57 AM »

Online Moranis

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I dunno about the Raps.  I haven't watched them really at all this year.  But looking at the stats, they appear about the same.  High end offense, below average defense.  Well below average in rebounding.  Defending LeBron will still fall entirely on Demarre Carroll.

I agree that in the East, the Raps seem like the obvious candidate, if anybody has a prayer of beating the Cavs.

Really, though, the team that beats the Cavs -- if anybody does -- will be from the West.  I'm almost certain of that.
I absolutely agree that no Eastern team is beating a healthy Cavs team. 

Raptors play a fairly slow pace so there are less rebounding opportunities.  They are a pretty darn good offensive rebounding team though.  Defensive rebounding they are below average and borderline bad. 

Thus far they have played the 4th toughest schedule and have the 3rd best margin of victory.  If they can keep the game slow while still keeping their offensive efficiency they can pose problems for the Cavs.  I mean they did take 2 games from them last year and that was with Jonas getting hurt and no Sullinger.  Theoretically those two should more than make up for the loss of Biyombo.  That said I don't see them taking more than 2 games from the Cavs again this year either. 
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