Overrated player: Jae Crowder

[ssspence]

- How he seems to add something to his game each year.

What's he added this year?

Check out his shooting percentages bruh.

So for a quarter of a season, he's shooting marginally better. I see.

I thought you meant he'd actually added some new dimension to his game. Cutting without the ball. A step back. Dare I say: rebounding. No wonder I misunderstood you.

[PhoSita]

- How he seems to add something to his game each year.

What's he added this year?

Check out his shooting percentages bruh.

So for a quarter of a season, he's shooting marginally better. I see.

I thought you meant he'd actually added some new dimension to his game. Cutting without the ball. A step back. Dare I say: rebounding. No wonder I misunderstood you.

So .... 49 / 40 / 92 is a marginal improvement to you?

I get the sense there's no way you're ever going to have an open mind about this.

[PhoSita]

LBJ
KD
Hayward
Leonard
George
Wiggins
Jimmy Butler
Carmelo Anthony
Giannis Antetokoumpo
Jabari Parker
Danillo Gallinari

After that then I would choose Jae Crowder.

That's 11 names.

Of those names, I regard Melo, Jabari, and Gallo as

(a) Poor defenders

and

(b) Ideal at the 4 spot


Even if we go with that entire list, that means Jae is 12th on your list of guys you'd want starting at SF, in a league of 400+ players and 30 teams that need to start a SF each game.


Look, if the premise here is that people are talking about Jae Crowder as an All-Star franchise cornerstone, yeah, sure, I agree. Overrated.

But I haven't heard that.  I think he's generally regarded as a valuable role player who has done a very impressive job of making himself into a quality starter despite being drafted in the 2nd round and spending his early career on the bench in Dallas.

[ssspence]

This isn't a thread about Jae Crowders trade value. It's about on court value.

I started the thread. How a player is rated or considered is about both. I think fans overrate Crowder. I hope NBA GMs do too.

By the way, as I posted two weeks ago, I believe the Cs should call Thibs about a deal centered around Wiggins for Crowder. Difficultly is the likely addition on the Cs side would be picks, and it's hard to see Minny caring about those (impatience is why they'd possibly trade Wiggins in the first place). It's tricky to build a package around Crowder that doesn't include Bradley, and I get a little less interested when it heads there.

The question for me is: would Thibs accept Smart and Crowder for Wiggins?

[nickagneta]

Melo - Debatable
Wiggins - Probably, but he's pretty one-way still

Example: overrating Crowder

Both of these teams laugh when you call offering Crowder straight up.

This is a good example of ignoring the actual point I'm making.

This isn't a thread about Jae Crowders trade value. It's about on court value.

Wiggins is an exciting player but he isn't necessarily a winning player yet. He mostly just scored and doesn't play very good defense.

Melo is in that same vein. He's definitely more talented than Crowder and is probably more valuable... But it is hard to say because he's still pretty inefficient as a scorer and doesn't do a lot of other things for his team.

Even if we set aside Melo and Wiggins, my question still stands... Who would you rather have than Jae? How long is that list?

And for every name that you put on that list, ask: How much would it cost to get that player?

The Celts are in a really good spot with Crowder, especially when you consider his contract.

Given that Jae is usually the third or fourth player mentioned when people talk about this team, I really just don't see your argument here.

LBJ
KD
Hayward
Leonard
George
Wiggins
Jimmy Butler
Carmelo Anthony
Giannis Antetokoumpo
Jabari Parker
Danillo Gallinari

After that then I would choose Jae Crowder.

For this team and what they need right now and how Stevens wants two way players that can play multiple positions, I would knock Gallo, Carmelo, and Wiggins off that list.

[ssspence]

- How he seems to add something to his game each year.

What's he added this year?

Check out his shooting percentages bruh.

So for a quarter of a season, he's shooting marginally better. I see.

I thought you meant he'd actually added some new dimension to his game. Cutting without the ball. A step back. Dare I say: rebounding. No wonder I misunderstood you.

So .... 49 / 40 / 92 is a marginal improvement to you?

I get the sense there's no way you're ever going to have an open mind about this.

In 12 games? Do you think Jerebko's one of the greatest shooters ever based on his last 6?

Jae has taken 14 free throws all **** season.

I'm not open minded about Crowder being overrated -- he is by many here, that's why I said so. You're helping to prove my point.

[Ilikesports17]

When you posit a player as overrated. you must first state how you perceive him to be rated.

Crowder is a solid starting SF. He is a jack of all trades player on offense, with really good defense. He is also a team leader which adds value.

LBJ
KD
Hayward
Leonard
George
Wiggins
Jimmy Butler
Carmelo Anthony
Giannis Antetokoumpo
Jabari Parker
Danillo Gallinari

Worth noting here that Parker is a power forward and when you consider defense and durability(not that Jae is durable but Gallo is awful). Its certainly not crazy to take Crowder over Gallo. That makes him the 9th best SF in the league. If you include Parker Gallo and Barnes hes still just the 12 best SF in the league.

A solid starter at the worst an above average one at best. Add in the fact that he is a terrific competitor, 26 and on one of the best contracts in the league and I think he is rated just fine.

[ssspence]

Crowder is a jack of all trades player on offense.

Example: overrating Crowder.

He's a decidedly one dimensional offensive player.

[kozlodoev]

When you posit a player as overrated. you must first state how you perceive him to be rated.

Crowder is a solid starting SF. He is a jack of all trades player on offense, with really good defense. He is also a team leader which adds value.

He also gives you exactly the same per-36 production this year that he did last year.

[alewilliam789]

LBJ
KD
Hayward
Leonard
George
Wiggins
Jimmy Butler
Carmelo Anthony
Giannis Antetokoumpo
Jabari Parker
Danillo Gallinari

After that then I would choose Jae Crowder.

That's 11 names.

Of those names, I regard Melo, Jabari, and Gallo as

(a) Poor defenders

and

(b) Ideal at the 4 spot


Even if we go with that entire list, that means Jae is 12th on your list of guys you'd want starting at SF, in a league of 400+ players and 30 teams that need to start a SF each game.


Look, if the premise here is that people are talking about Jae Crowder as an All-Star franchise cornerstone, yeah, sure, I agree. Overrated.

But I haven't heard that.  I think he's generally regarded as a valuable role player who has done a very impressive job of making himself into a quality starter despite being drafted in the 2nd round and spending his early career on the bench in Dallas.

Agree with this. Solid role player/ starter for that matter, but we shouldn't be hesitant to ship him off for a top tier player

[Ilikesports17]

Crowder is a jack of all trades player on offense.

Example: overrating Crowder.

He's a decidedly one dimensional offensive player.

He is not a creative drive. Cant really create his own shot. He isnt explosive. However, he has just enough burst strength and handling that he can drive closeouts and take advantage of mismatches.

He is a solid 3 point shooter (hes been terrific this year). Hes very solid at the line. His midrange game is surprisingly OK which  allows him to score a tiny bit in isolation.

You can sit there and promise yourself he sucks at everything, but thats not true.

Again, what do you believe to be a proper rating for Crowder?

[Ilikesports17]

This whole thread seems ridiculous.

You claim Crowder wouldnt be better than 4th 5th or 6th best man on a championship team.

The whole "where would he be on a championship team" argument is fairly meaningless because you can have top-heavy teams and team more based on depth etc etc.

Any way, I dont think anyone sees Jae and better than Isaiah and Horford.

I think people see Crowder as in the mix with AB for 3 most important player on the team.

Next, no one is under the illusion that we are a championship team and most would contend that we need either one true superstar or two stars to reach contention. I think some would even say we need a superstar and a star.

This means that even if someone is so high on Jae and the celtics that they believe we are a star away from contention and that Jae is better than Avery Bradley that person still sees Crowder as man #4 on a championship team.

The other person who thinks we are two stars away, and prefers 1st team all-defense Avery Bradley to Crowder believe that Crowder is man #6 on a championship team.

Basically everyone ****ing agrees with you. You see people praise Crowder because Crowder is a good player on a great contract with a terrific mentality and intangible and you have created this fantasy world where Celtics fans think he is some star. No one(at least very very few) believe that.

[LooseCannon]

I think what nearly everyone would agree on is that it would be nice if Crowder ended up being more like James Posey was for the '08 team. Unless the team just got superstars at other positions, it would probably be the best if Crowder was a super sub, rather than a starter.

Why?  If you're not getting a star caliber player at Jae's position, who in the league do you think you're going to put at that spot?

How many teams have superior starters at SF?

Durant, Bron, George, Kawhi, Hayward, Butler, Giannis

Melo - Debatable
Wiggins - Probably, but he's pretty one-way still

Harris, Porter, Gallo - Debatable

You people are trying to argue Crowder as a potentially better player than Carmelo Anthony. Good god the bias is so bad in this forum.
Ask that on any other blog and see how that's received.

The stathead crowd tends to have a strong dislike of Carmelo Anthony.  Those who believe strongly in advanced metrics are very likely to see Jae Crowder as better than Carmelo Anthony, an overrated "superstar" who no one should have in their top 20.  It would be reasonable to say that Crowder is close to as valuable as Isaiah Thomas.

And when it comes to fit, Carmelo Anthony is basically the exact opposite of what you should look for in players if Brad Stevens is your coach.  Melo has poor defensive effort and an isolation-heavy offensive game.  Stevens is looking for players who do very much the opposite.

[chilidawg]

I think what nearly everyone would agree on is that it would be nice if Crowder ended up being more like James Posey was for the '08 team. Unless the team just got superstars at other positions, it would probably be the best if Crowder was a super sub, rather than a starter.

Why?  If you're not getting a star caliber player at Jae's position, who in the league do you think you're going to put at that spot?

How many teams have superior starters at SF?

Durant, Bron, George, Kawhi, Hayward, Butler, Giannis

Melo - Debatable
Wiggins - Probably, but he's pretty one-way still

Harris, Porter, Gallo - Debatable

You people are trying to argue Crowder as a potentially better player than Carmelo Anthony. Good god the bias is so bad in this forum.
Ask that on any other blog and see how that's received.

The stathead crowd tends to have a strong dislike of Carmelo Anthony.  Those who believe strongly in advanced metrics are very likely to see Jae Crowder as better than Carmelo Anthony, an overrated "superstar" who no one should have in their top 20.  It would be reasonable to say that Crowder is close to as valuable as Isaiah Thomas.

And when it comes to fit, Carmelo Anthony is basically the exact opposite of what you should look for in players if Brad Stevens is your coach.  Melo has poor defensive effort and an isolation-heavy offensive game.  Stevens is looking for players who do very much the opposite.

If you want a guy who is going to get numbers, you want Carmelo.  If you want someone who is going to help win games, you want Crowder.

[ssspence]

If you want a guy who is going to get numbers, you want Carmelo.  If you want someone who is going to help win games, you want Crowder.

Example: ******** overrating of Crowder. Just a pure misunderstanding of what holds back the Cs.