Poll

Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?

Yes
60 (63.8%)
No
34 (36.2%)

Total Members Voted: 94

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Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2016, 07:22:07 AM »

Offline ssspence

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Anyway, I don't think you mean he "failed to scout them," as in "he didn't scout them adequately," rather that he made a mistake in judgment.

I'm saying that the former lead to the latter. I seriously doubt any of them was focused on the right way, which is why none of them was drafted.

Yes, Ainge just took two foreign players in the draft this year, but only because he HAD to. I'm interested to see if either pans out. But I can say with great confidence that the Cs have not prioritized international scouting like many other NBA teams over the years, in all likelihood to their detriment. Clearly in the case of the 2013 draft, that's the case.


I don't know if you remember this, but Danny personally made a trip to Greece to scout Antetokounmpo in 2013.  If you don't think he had other members of the staff out scouting other internationals, I think you are mistaken. 

Just because he didn't pick an international doesn't mean they weren't adequately scouted.  Your logic is faulty.

If you consider the GM stopping in to see a guy (or -- as I've pointed out, 3 guys) on his annual trip to Europe proper scouting, great. Check the box, tell yourself I'm wrong, and let's move on.

At this point we're debating the semantics of 'good', which is a waste of time. Ainge got the 4th to 6th best result at that moment, and there's a clear deficiency as to why. In my household, that ain't 'good'. And I expect better from the Celtics, tho sadly I've learned to temper expectations of their drafts after a pretty mixed bag of results.
Mike

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Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #106 on: December 02, 2016, 11:07:11 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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2 points tonight in 17 minutes and 1 for 3 shooting but solid boards

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He has been all over the place this year in terms of play.

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #107 on: December 02, 2016, 11:15:23 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Anyway, I don't think you mean he "failed to scout them," as in "he didn't scout them adequately," rather that he made a mistake in judgment.

I'm saying that the former lead to the latter. I seriously doubt any of them was focused on the right way, which is why none of them was drafted.

Yes, Ainge just took two foreign players in the draft this year, but only because he HAD to. I'm interested to see if either pans out. But I can say with great confidence that the Cs have not prioritized international scouting like many other NBA teams over the years, in all likelihood to their detriment. Clearly in the case of the 2013 draft, that's the case.


I don't know if you remember this, but Danny personally made a trip to Greece to scout Antetokounmpo in 2013.  If you don't think he had other members of the staff out scouting other internationals, I think you are mistaken. 

Just because he didn't pick an international doesn't mean they weren't adequately scouted.  Your logic is faulty.

If you consider the GM stopping in to see a guy (or -- as I've pointed out, 3 guys) on his annual trip to Europe proper scouting, great. Check the box, tell yourself I'm wrong, and let's move on.

At this point we're debating the semantics of 'good', which is a waste of time. Ainge got the 4th to 6th best result at that moment, and there's a clear deficiency as to why. In my household, that ain't 'good'. And I expect better from the Celtics, tho sadly I've learned to temper expectations of their drafts after a pretty mixed bag of results.

He scouted him. He went to see him personally. I dunno how you can keep discounting that just to prove your point.
No one can accurately predict what a player is going to be in a few years. Drafting is a lot of guesswork. You have to consider a lot of factors. Remember Upshaw and all the negative posts in here about how bad Ainge was for making the "Obvious" choice? Where is Upshaw now? No one can know for sure how a player will turn out.

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2016, 12:02:12 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Anyway, I don't think you mean he "failed to scout them," as in "he didn't scout them adequately," rather that he made a mistake in judgment.

I'm saying that the former lead to the latter. I seriously doubt any of them was focused on the right way, which is why none of them was drafted.

Yes, Ainge just took two foreign players in the draft this year, but only because he HAD to. I'm interested to see if either pans out. But I can say with great confidence that the Cs have not prioritized international scouting like many other NBA teams over the years, in all likelihood to their detriment. Clearly in the case of the 2013 draft, that's the case.


I don't know if you remember this, but Danny personally made a trip to Greece to scout Antetokounmpo in 2013.  If you don't think he had other members of the staff out scouting other internationals, I think you are mistaken. 

Just because he didn't pick an international doesn't mean they weren't adequately scouted.  Your logic is faulty.

If you consider the GM stopping in to see a guy (or -- as I've pointed out, 3 guys) on his annual trip to Europe proper scouting, great. Check the box, tell yourself I'm wrong, and let's move on.

At this point we're debating the semantics of 'good', which is a waste of time. Ainge got the 4th to 6th best result at that moment, and there's a clear deficiency as to why. In my household, that ain't 'good'. And I expect better from the Celtics, tho sadly I've learned to temper expectations of their drafts after a pretty mixed bag of results.

He scouted him. He went to see him personally. I dunno how you can keep discounting that just to prove your point.
No one can accurately predict what a player is going to be in a few years. Drafting is a lot of guesswork. You have to consider a lot of factors. Remember Upshaw and all the negative posts in here about how bad Ainge was for making the "Obvious" choice? Where is Upshaw now? No one can know for sure how a player will turn out.
Giannis and Upshaw had nothing in common.  Upshaw had huge red flags and by the time of the draft was projected as a 2nd rounder and ended up going undrafted.  So he clearly wasn't the Obvious choice except for some keyboard GMs on here. 

Drafting Giannis, an 18 year old potential star who was a projected mid 1st rounder, was the obvious choice with the #13 pick.  In the last draft, Ainge made a much riskier pick drafting Yabu, a 20 year old projected 2nd rounder, with the #16 pick.  The same can be said of drafting Rozier, a 21 year old projected late 1st, with the #16 pick in the previous draft.  Don't see how Ainge gets a pass for not taking Giannis when he's reached for older players with much less upside in the previous 2 drafts.   

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2016, 05:51:32 PM »

Offline flybono

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Let me know when he starts playing defense

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2016, 06:14:23 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Let me know when he starts playing defense

TP

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2016, 06:21:05 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Anyway, I don't think you mean he "failed to scout them," as in "he didn't scout them adequately," rather that he made a mistake in judgment.

I'm saying that the former lead to the latter. I seriously doubt any of them was focused on the right way, which is why none of them was drafted.

Yes, Ainge just took two foreign players in the draft this year, but only because he HAD to. I'm interested to see if either pans out. But I can say with great confidence that the Cs have not prioritized international scouting like many other NBA teams over the years, in all likelihood to their detriment. Clearly in the case of the 2013 draft, that's the case.


I don't know if you remember this, but Danny personally made a trip to Greece to scout Antetokounmpo in 2013.  If you don't think he had other members of the staff out scouting other internationals, I think you are mistaken. 

Just because he didn't pick an international doesn't mean they weren't adequately scouted.  Your logic is faulty.

If you consider the GM stopping in to see a guy (or -- as I've pointed out, 3 guys) on his annual trip to Europe proper scouting, great. Check the box, tell yourself I'm wrong, and let's move on.

At this point we're debating the semantics of 'good', which is a waste of time. Ainge got the 4th to 6th best result at that moment, and there's a clear deficiency as to why. In my household, that ain't 'good'. And I expect better from the Celtics, tho sadly I've learned to temper expectations of their drafts after a pretty mixed bag of results.

He scouted him. He went to see him personally. I dunno how you can keep discounting that just to prove your point.
No one can accurately predict what a player is going to be in a few years. Drafting is a lot of guesswork. You have to consider a lot of factors. Remember Upshaw and all the negative posts in here about how bad Ainge was for making the "Obvious" choice? Where is Upshaw now? No one can know for sure how a player will turn out.
Giannis and Upshaw had nothing in common.  Upshaw had huge red flags and by the time of the draft was projected as a 2nd rounder and ended up going undrafted.  So he clearly wasn't the Obvious choice except for some keyboard GMs on here. 

Drafting Giannis, an 18 year old potential star who was a projected mid 1st rounder, was the obvious choice with the #13 pick.  In the last draft, Ainge made a much riskier pick drafting Yabu, a 20 year old projected 2nd rounder, with the #16 pick.  The same can be said of drafting Rozier, a 21 year old projected late 1st, with the #16 pick in the previous draft.  Don't see how Ainge gets a pass for not taking Giannis when he's reached for older players with much less upside in the previous 2 drafts.

If he was the "obvious pick" at #13, why didn't he get taken at 14?

There seems to be people on here that now think Giannis was a can't-miss prospect, but he was far from it. He was a great athlete but played in the Greek 2nd division, which isn't even close to the talent level of NCAA DI. Most players with that description turn into nothing. His development has been pretty much the best case scenario, but most similar prospects turn into nothing. Scouting him, say, twice as much as we did would not have changed the reality that he was a risky pick.

You can hate Danny's decision to take a safe bet over a risky one, but that doesn't make it a bad pick
I'm bitter.

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2016, 09:13:22 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I think he was drafted too high. A 7 footer who is almost useless inside defensively against athletic bigs. He's really a 1 or 2 in a 7 ft body.

The Celtics are a stark contrast: tough backcourt, soft frontcourt.

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #113 on: December 03, 2016, 09:38:36 PM »

Offline ssspence

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It's amusing to hear folks talk about the 'safety' of the pick, when Kelly is as hit or miss game to game as any player on our roster.
Mike

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Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #114 on: December 03, 2016, 10:09:00 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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It's amusing to hear folks talk about the 'safety' of the pick, when Kelly is as hit or miss game to game as any player on our roster.

The safety of a pick refers to how high their floor is (ie for Kelly, that would be a purely offensive stretch big), not how consistent they are as a player. That has literally nothing to do with it
I'm bitter.

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #115 on: December 03, 2016, 10:22:35 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Safe to say his defense on guys his height is about as frail as awet paper sack

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #116 on: December 03, 2016, 10:49:00 PM »

Offline ssspence

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It's amusing to hear folks talk about the 'safety' of the pick, when Kelly is as hit or miss game to game as any player on our roster.

The safety of a pick refers to how high their floor is (ie for Kelly, that would be a purely offensive stretch big), not how consistent they are as a player. That has literally nothing to do with it

You have your own set of definitons -- good for you. But how consistently KO performs is obviously part of what makes him a good (or questionable) pick.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #117 on: December 03, 2016, 10:55:16 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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It's amusing to hear folks talk about the 'safety' of the pick, when Kelly is as hit or miss game to game as any player on our roster.

The safety of a pick refers to how high their floor is (ie for Kelly, that would be a purely offensive stretch big), not how consistent they are as a player. That has literally nothing to do with it

Again, you're version of success is avoiding an embarrassing whiff. That's junk.

I don't see how that has anything to do with my post, but w/e...

My version of success isn't just "avoiding an embarrassing whiff".  It's getting a player as good or better than your pick.  The entire draft is a crap shoot, getting a player as good as expected is a good return.  As I've said countless times, it's not a great or best case return, but it's still a good one.

Actually, looking back at the 2013 draft, what picks (other than Giannis, Gobert, and Schroder, which you've already mentioned) would you consider to be good picks?

Edit: since you once again edited your post as I was replying:

Quote
You have your own set of definitons -- good for you. But how consistently KO performs is obviously part of what makes him a good (or questionable) pick.

Obviously his consistency plays into how good of a pick he is (and even given his inconsistency, he's still a good pick).  It doesn't have anything to do with how "safe" of a pick he was, though, which was what you said in your post
I'm bitter.

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #118 on: December 03, 2016, 11:01:21 PM »

Offline ssspence

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The entire draft is a crap shoot, getting a player as good as expected is a good return.

This is an oxymoron. If it's a crap shoot, you don't have specific expectations.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Is it safe to say that Kelly Olynyk was a good pick by Ainge now?
« Reply #119 on: December 03, 2016, 11:08:30 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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The entire draft is a crap shoot, getting a player as good as expected is a good return.

This is an oxymoron. If it's a crap shoot, you don't have specific expectations.

Right, but you do have general expectations based on past drafts and what kind of career players taken at that spot generally have (from stars or starters at the top [though that's much, much more dependent on the strength of the draft than anything], to rotation players in the middle and deep bench players late)
I'm bitter.