Author Topic: Report: Blazers interested in Noel  (Read 9451 times)

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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2016, 07:00:02 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Why would they overpay Noel when they could have done the same to Aldridge?

Because Aldridge wasn't coming back.

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2016, 12:51:18 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/12/02/nerlens-noel-on-prior-criticism-of-76ers-i-dont-think-the-rosters-changed/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Sounds like Noel still wants out as much as he did in training camp, and the rotation is even murkier now with the addition of Ilyasova and Embiid and Okafor approaching full-time minutes.
Obviously he wants out.  Unfortunately if Philly doesn't get an offer they find acceptable, there's no incentive to trade him.  Noel can help the team in a limited role.  It sounds like Noel understands that and is willing to do what he can to be the best Nerlens Noel he can be under the circumstances. 

Quote
“I put myself in a different place with all these things,” Noel said. “Do what you can control. That’s what I give power to, is what I can really control. I think right now I’m in a good place mentally, I think my body feels great and I just want to get back to playing basketball and let things take care of themselves.

I'm interested to see what he looks like next to Embiid.

Also, sounds like the plan is for Ben Simmons to play point guard when he gets back.  Not point forward... point guard: 

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/Sixers-view-Simmons-as-their-point-guard-when-ready-to-play.html

Quote
"When he’s ready to go to the court, my intention is to give him the ball and let him be the point guard,” Brown said. “That’s the plan."
...

“Everyone gets all twisted on what their version of a point guard is," Brown told NBA.com at the time. "When I say 'point guard' I mean point guard. You've got the ball. You could call him Isiah Thomas, the old Isiah Thomas of my generation. You could call him Chris Paul. I mean point guard point guard.  Not Draymond Green. Not LeBron [James]. Not Lamar Odom. That's a point forward."

With Ben Simmons as their phenom point guard and Embiid as their phenom big, I imagine if they do move one of Okafor or Noel they'll be looking for shooters who can play off ball.

Yeah, you can repeat it all you want, but Simmons will never, ever play or be a point guard. It's a point forward, no matter what BS your Sixers fan boys tell you.

That's just not how it works. You are defined a position by who you guard. He can barely guard guys his size, and he still regularly was burned by them. How the hell would he guard literally any PG in the league??

He'll handle the ball a lot, just like Lebron. But that doesn't make him a "point guard."
You are not defined a position by who you guard.  When Bradley started being the primary defender, he generally guarded PGs while Rondo guarded SGs or even SFs.  That did not make Bradley the team's point guard.  The point guard is the primary ball handler who runs a team's offense.  Offensively Simmons will be playing at the top of the key, where PGs reside, to maximize his excellent court vision and passing. 

As for Simmons defending PGs, apparently that's what Brown is looking at.  My guess is that it will be situational.  He will have a big advantage having Embiid in the paint. 

Brett Brown said Wednesday that he plans to give Ben Simmons the ball as the point guard once the 76ers' point guard is ready to play. Brown went another step Thursday, when he added that he'll have the 6-foot-10 Simmons, the No. 1 overall pick in June's draft, defend point guards, too. "I think he can," Brown said after Thursday's practice.

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2016, 01:04:29 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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My question to this I guess would be is the Greek freak a point guard?  It seems he is kind of similar in that Kidd has said a lot of the same things and he has handled the ball a ton. At the end of the day I don't think many people consider him a point guard. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this but I don't really think we will see a 6'10 real point guard ever. I think people want to see it and call Simmons or giannis that for the novelty of it, but at the end of the day those guys are never going to handle the ball as well as someone like rondo or (to a lesser extent) Thomas. I feel like from a height perspective it just doesn't make sense because of how high a 6'10 person has to dribble. I would be kind of shocked if Simmons didn't get his pocket picked a ton being a full time point guard. Is that a valid concern?


Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2016, 02:17:37 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/12/02/nerlens-noel-on-prior-criticism-of-76ers-i-dont-think-the-rosters-changed/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Sounds like Noel still wants out as much as he did in training camp, and the rotation is even murkier now with the addition of Ilyasova and Embiid and Okafor approaching full-time minutes.
Obviously he wants out.  Unfortunately if Philly doesn't get an offer they find acceptable, there's no incentive to trade him.  Noel can help the team in a limited role.  It sounds like Noel understands that and is willing to do what he can to be the best Nerlens Noel he can be under the circumstances. 

Quote
“I put myself in a different place with all these things,” Noel said. “Do what you can control. That’s what I give power to, is what I can really control. I think right now I’m in a good place mentally, I think my body feels great and I just want to get back to playing basketball and let things take care of themselves.

I'm interested to see what he looks like next to Embiid.

Also, sounds like the plan is for Ben Simmons to play point guard when he gets back.  Not point forward... point guard: 

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/Sixers-view-Simmons-as-their-point-guard-when-ready-to-play.html

Quote
"When he’s ready to go to the court, my intention is to give him the ball and let him be the point guard,” Brown said. “That’s the plan."
...

“Everyone gets all twisted on what their version of a point guard is," Brown told NBA.com at the time. "When I say 'point guard' I mean point guard. You've got the ball. You could call him Isiah Thomas, the old Isiah Thomas of my generation. You could call him Chris Paul. I mean point guard point guard.  Not Draymond Green. Not LeBron [James]. Not Lamar Odom. That's a point forward."

With Ben Simmons as their phenom point guard and Embiid as their phenom big, I imagine if they do move one of Okafor or Noel they'll be looking for shooters who can play off ball.

Yeah, you can repeat it all you want, but Simmons will never, ever play or be a point guard. It's a point forward, no matter what BS your Sixers fan boys tell you.

That's just not how it works. You are defined a position by who you guard. He can barely guard guys his size, and he still regularly was burned by them. How the hell would he guard literally any PG in the league??

He'll handle the ball a lot, just like Lebron. But that doesn't make him a "point guard."
You are not defined a position by who you guard. When Bradley started being the primary defender, he generally guarded PGs while Rondo guarded SGs or even SFs.  That did not make Bradley the team's point guard.  The point guard is the primary ball handler who runs a team's offense.  Offensively Simmons will be playing at the top of the key, where PGs reside, to maximize his excellent court vision and passing. 

As for Simmons defending PGs, apparently that's what Brown is looking at.  My guess is that it will be situational.  He will have a big advantage having Embiid in the paint. 

Brett Brown said Wednesday that he plans to give Ben Simmons the ball as the point guard once the 76ers' point guard is ready to play. Brown went another step Thursday, when he added that he'll have the 6-foot-10 Simmons, the No. 1 overall pick in June's draft, defend point guards, too. "I think he can," Brown said after Thursday's practice.

That is absolutely how positions are defined for the larger groups of guards, forwards, and centers. Of course, there are special situations where certain special matchups dictate otherwise, and it's not something that is meant to specify between point/shooting guards, small/power forwards, etc. However, generally if you're guarding a guard, you're a guard and so on and so forth.

He's a point forward - simple as that, just like Lebron, Griffin, etc. He's not going to be a fixture at the one spot, plain and simple.

And what Brown is saying is total hyperbole and, as you said, almost certainly situational, just like Lebron and other point forwards. If he's truly going to play him at the "point guard" position, then that means he'd put out some sort of starting lineup of Simmons, Bayless, Covington, Saric, and Embiid, and Simmons would be guarding guards full-time, such as IT/Bradley, Lowry/Derozan, Rondo/Wade, Kemba/Batum, Rose/Lee, Jackson/KCP, etc., etc.

Does that really sound like a sound strategy? No, because it's not. Simmons can barely guard other bigs, not even well at that, so how in the world would he chase around guards full time?

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2016, 02:57:22 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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My question to this I guess would be is the Greek freak a point guard?  It seems he is kind of similar in that Kidd has said a lot of the same things and he has handled the ball a ton. At the end of the day I don't think many people consider him a point guard. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this but I don't really think we will see a 6'10 real point guard ever. I think people want to see it and call Simmons or giannis that for the novelty of it, but at the end of the day those guys are never going to handle the ball as well as someone like rondo or (to a lesser extent) Thomas. I feel like from a height perspective it just doesn't make sense because of how high a 6'10 person has to dribble. I would be kind of shocked if Simmons didn't get his pocket picked a ton being a full time point guard. Is that a valid concern?
Magic Johnson was 6'9.  I haven't seen that much of the Bucks but from what I've seen I'd probably call Giannis a Point Forward although he's really a hybrid. 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-never-seen-a-player-quite-like-giannis-antetokounmpo/

As for Simmons, he functioned as LSU's PG a lot of the time.  Obviously NBA PG is a big step up.  Simmons at PG would cause matchup problems for the opposing team.  A smaller PG wouldn't be able to handle his height and size.  When a smaller guard gets switched onto Lebron or Giannis, the advantage is in their favor not the guard's whether its by driving the lane, posting them up, shooting or passing over them.  Simmons really needs to develop his shooting but the other three he is good at. 

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2016, 03:40:18 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/12/02/nerlens-noel-on-prior-criticism-of-76ers-i-dont-think-the-rosters-changed/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Sounds like Noel still wants out as much as he did in training camp, and the rotation is even murkier now with the addition of Ilyasova and Embiid and Okafor approaching full-time minutes.
Obviously he wants out.  Unfortunately if Philly doesn't get an offer they find acceptable, there's no incentive to trade him.  Noel can help the team in a limited role.  It sounds like Noel understands that and is willing to do what he can to be the best Nerlens Noel he can be under the circumstances. 

Quote
“I put myself in a different place with all these things,” Noel said. “Do what you can control. That’s what I give power to, is what I can really control. I think right now I’m in a good place mentally, I think my body feels great and I just want to get back to playing basketball and let things take care of themselves.

I'm interested to see what he looks like next to Embiid.

Also, sounds like the plan is for Ben Simmons to play point guard when he gets back.  Not point forward... point guard: 

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/Sixers-view-Simmons-as-their-point-guard-when-ready-to-play.html

Quote
"When he’s ready to go to the court, my intention is to give him the ball and let him be the point guard,” Brown said. “That’s the plan."
...

“Everyone gets all twisted on what their version of a point guard is," Brown told NBA.com at the time. "When I say 'point guard' I mean point guard. You've got the ball. You could call him Isiah Thomas, the old Isiah Thomas of my generation. You could call him Chris Paul. I mean point guard point guard.  Not Draymond Green. Not LeBron [James]. Not Lamar Odom. That's a point forward."

With Ben Simmons as their phenom point guard and Embiid as their phenom big, I imagine if they do move one of Okafor or Noel they'll be looking for shooters who can play off ball.

Yeah, you can repeat it all you want, but Simmons will never, ever play or be a point guard. It's a point forward, no matter what BS your Sixers fan boys tell you.

That's just not how it works. You are defined a position by who you guard. He can barely guard guys his size, and he still regularly was burned by them. How the hell would he guard literally any PG in the league??

He'll handle the ball a lot, just like Lebron. But that doesn't make him a "point guard."
You are not defined a position by who you guard. When Bradley started being the primary defender, he generally guarded PGs while Rondo guarded SGs or even SFs.  That did not make Bradley the team's point guard.  The point guard is the primary ball handler who runs a team's offense.  Offensively Simmons will be playing at the top of the key, where PGs reside, to maximize his excellent court vision and passing. 

As for Simmons defending PGs, apparently that's what Brown is looking at.  My guess is that it will be situational.  He will have a big advantage having Embiid in the paint. 

Brett Brown said Wednesday that he plans to give Ben Simmons the ball as the point guard once the 76ers' point guard is ready to play. Brown went another step Thursday, when he added that he'll have the 6-foot-10 Simmons, the No. 1 overall pick in June's draft, defend point guards, too. "I think he can," Brown said after Thursday's practice.

That is absolutely how positions are defined for the larger groups of guards, forwards, and centers. Of course, there are special situations where certain special matchups dictate otherwise, and it's not something that is meant to specify between point/shooting guards, small/power forwards, etc. However, generally if you're guarding a guard, you're a guard and so on and so forth.

He's a point forward - simple as that, just like Lebron, Griffin, etc. He's not going to be a fixture at the one spot, plain and simple.

And what Brown is saying is total hyperbole and, as you said, almost certainly situational, just like Lebron and other point forwards. If he's truly going to play him at the "point guard" position, then that means he'd put out some sort of starting lineup of Simmons, Bayless, Covington, Saric, and Embiid, and Simmons would be guarding guards full-time, such as IT/Bradley, Lowry/Derozan, Rondo/Wade, Kemba/Batum, Rose/Lee, Jackson/KCP, etc., etc.

Does that really sound like a sound strategy? No, because it's not. Simmons can barely guard other bigs, not even well at that, so how in the world would he chase around guards full time?
Simmons can guard bigs.  His defensive issues weren't from lack of ability.  They were from lack of effort.  He moves well, has size and good athleticism.  Given the lineup you suggest, Covington would guard one of the guards.  He already does that a lot now because he's their best perimeter defender.  Offensively Simmons would be at the point and Bayless and Covington would be at the wings. 

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2016, 07:25:16 AM »

Offline ssspence

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I wonder if the Cs feel Noel and Horford can play together. Offensively? NP. Defensively it's a little tricky, it seems. Noel would get dragged away from the basket defending PFs.

Better than our current situation. Right now Horford is getting dragged out to the perimeter guarding PFs, which takes him away from his best defensive strength of anchoring the defense and rim protection.

At least by adding Noel you'd always have a rim protector down low, no matter whether Al or Noel was chasing the PF.

Put it like this - replace Amir for Noel at the basket. Don't you think the much younger and more athletic Noel provides much more rim protection than the aged Amir?

I get your point. What I was getting at is how effective theyd truly be together. They're both NBA centers, in reality.
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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2016, 02:17:47 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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My question to this I guess would be is the Greek freak a point guard?  It seems he is kind of similar in that Kidd has said a lot of the same things and he has handled the ball a ton. At the end of the day I don't think many people consider him a point guard. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this but I don't really think we will see a 6'10 real point guard ever. I think people want to see it and call Simmons or giannis that for the novelty of it, but at the end of the day those guys are never going to handle the ball as well as someone like rondo or (to a lesser extent) Thomas. I feel like from a height perspective it just doesn't make sense because of how high a 6'10 person has to dribble. I would be kind of shocked if Simmons didn't get his pocket picked a ton being a full time point guard. Is that a valid concern?
Magic Johnson was 6'9.  I haven't seen that much of the Bucks but from what I've seen I'd probably call Giannis a Point Forward although he's really a hybrid. 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-never-seen-a-player-quite-like-giannis-antetokounmpo/

As for Simmons, he functioned as LSU's PG a lot of the time.  Obviously NBA PG is a big step up.  Simmons at PG would cause matchup problems for the opposing team.  A smaller PG wouldn't be able to handle his height and size.  When a smaller guard gets switched onto Lebron or Giannis, the advantage is in their favor not the guard's whether its by driving the lane, posting them up, shooting or passing over them.  Simmons really needs to develop his shooting but the other three he is good at.
Lol. I am aware of Magic Johnson. He also stopped playing close to 25 years ago. Thanks for the condescending response. My point was there have been numerous players like GA, Lamar Odom, livingstone etc that were supposed to be magic Johnson like point guards and the majority of them ended up playing different positions the majority of their careeers. Seems kind of silly to act like Simmons will just buck this trend.

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #83 on: December 03, 2016, 03:16:14 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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My question to this I guess would be is the Greek freak a point guard?  It seems he is kind of similar in that Kidd has said a lot of the same things and he has handled the ball a ton. At the end of the day I don't think many people consider him a point guard. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this but I don't really think we will see a 6'10 real point guard ever. I think people want to see it and call Simmons or giannis that for the novelty of it, but at the end of the day those guys are never going to handle the ball as well as someone like rondo or (to a lesser extent) Thomas. I feel like from a height perspective it just doesn't make sense because of how high a 6'10 person has to dribble. I would be kind of shocked if Simmons didn't get his pocket picked a ton being a full time point guard. Is that a valid concern?
Magic Johnson was 6'9.  I haven't seen that much of the Bucks but from what I've seen I'd probably call Giannis a Point Forward although he's really a hybrid. 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-never-seen-a-player-quite-like-giannis-antetokounmpo/

As for Simmons, he functioned as LSU's PG a lot of the time.  Obviously NBA PG is a big step up.  Simmons at PG would cause matchup problems for the opposing team.  A smaller PG wouldn't be able to handle his height and size.  When a smaller guard gets switched onto Lebron or Giannis, the advantage is in their favor not the guard's whether its by driving the lane, posting them up, shooting or passing over them.  Simmons really needs to develop his shooting but the other three he is good at.
Lol. I am aware of Magic Johnson. He also stopped playing close to 25 years ago. Thanks for the condescending response. My point was there have been numerous players like GA, Lamar Odom, livingstone etc that were supposed to be magic Johnson like point guards and the majority of them ended up playing different positions the majority of their careeers. Seems kind of silly to act like Simmons will just buck this trend.

Maybe he can be like Larry Bird but with half the three-point shooting ability of Ricky Rubio and a third of the competitive fire of Jeff Green.
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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #84 on: December 03, 2016, 03:29:33 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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My question to this I guess would be is the Greek freak a point guard?  It seems he is kind of similar in that Kidd has said a lot of the same things and he has handled the ball a ton. At the end of the day I don't think many people consider him a point guard. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this but I don't really think we will see a 6'10 real point guard ever. I think people want to see it and call Simmons or giannis that for the novelty of it, but at the end of the day those guys are never going to handle the ball as well as someone like rondo or (to a lesser extent) Thomas. I feel like from a height perspective it just doesn't make sense because of how high a 6'10 person has to dribble. I would be kind of shocked if Simmons didn't get his pocket picked a ton being a full time point guard. Is that a valid concern?
Magic Johnson was 6'9.  I haven't seen that much of the Bucks but from what I've seen I'd probably call Giannis a Point Forward although he's really a hybrid. 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-never-seen-a-player-quite-like-giannis-antetokounmpo/

As for Simmons, he functioned as LSU's PG a lot of the time.  Obviously NBA PG is a big step up.  Simmons at PG would cause matchup problems for the opposing team.  A smaller PG wouldn't be able to handle his height and size.  When a smaller guard gets switched onto Lebron or Giannis, the advantage is in their favor not the guard's whether its by driving the lane, posting them up, shooting or passing over them.  Simmons really needs to develop his shooting but the other three he is good at.
Lol. I am aware of Magic Johnson. He also stopped playing close to 25 years ago. Thanks for the condescending response. My point was there have been numerous players like GA, Lamar Odom, livingstone etc that were supposed to be magic Johnson like point guards and the majority of them ended up playing different positions the majority of their careeers. Seems kind of silly to act like Simmons will just buck this trend.

Good post, but Livingstone never actually made it to the NBA.  His cousin did, though, and served as a nice PG till he shattered his leg in 26 places.
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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #85 on: December 03, 2016, 03:55:46 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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My question to this I guess would be is the Greek freak a point guard?  It seems he is kind of similar in that Kidd has said a lot of the same things and he has handled the ball a ton. At the end of the day I don't think many people consider him a point guard. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this but I don't really think we will see a 6'10 real point guard ever. I think people want to see it and call Simmons or giannis that for the novelty of it, but at the end of the day those guys are never going to handle the ball as well as someone like rondo or (to a lesser extent) Thomas. I feel like from a height perspective it just doesn't make sense because of how high a 6'10 person has to dribble. I would be kind of shocked if Simmons didn't get his pocket picked a ton being a full time point guard. Is that a valid concern?
Magic Johnson was 6'9.  I haven't seen that much of the Bucks but from what I've seen I'd probably call Giannis a Point Forward although he's really a hybrid. 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-never-seen-a-player-quite-like-giannis-antetokounmpo/

As for Simmons, he functioned as LSU's PG a lot of the time.  Obviously NBA PG is a big step up.  Simmons at PG would cause matchup problems for the opposing team.  A smaller PG wouldn't be able to handle his height and size.  When a smaller guard gets switched onto Lebron or Giannis, the advantage is in their favor not the guard's whether its by driving the lane, posting them up, shooting or passing over them.  Simmons really needs to develop his shooting but the other three he is good at.
Lol. I am aware of Magic Johnson. He also stopped playing close to 25 years ago. Thanks for the condescending response. My point was there have been numerous players like GA, Lamar Odom, livingstone etc that were supposed to be magic Johnson like point guards and the majority of them ended up playing different positions the majority of their careeers. Seems kind of silly to act like Simmons will just buck this trend.
Magic played when defenses were allowed to be a lot more physical and did just fine.  Just don't see dribbling as much of an issue when your dealing with someone whose been a primary ball handler throughout his development. If someone who has been a ball handling point guard for most of their youth experiences a late big growth spurt, they may have to adjust to their new body but they don't lose their ball handling skills. 

Giannis was not brought in as a PG.  It wasn't until mid last year that they decided to let him run their offense.  Giannis is very good but Simmons passing and court vision are elite and he's a better ball handler too.  He's basically a 6'10" Rondo.  Simmons is going to run the Sixers offense.  He's going to be their floor general.  The person who does that is generally called the PG regardless of their height.  Now defensively I expect he'll probably end up defending all 5 positions depending on the situation.