Author Topic: Report: Blazers interested in Noel  (Read 9452 times)

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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2016, 09:05:44 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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they don't have incentive to do anything. 

Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.  All Noel has left on his rookie deal is the qualifying offer next year.  If he signs that, Philly CANNOT trade him without his consent and he then becomes an unrestricted free agent.  Any team Philly tries to trade Noel to faces the exact same problem.  The longer Philly waits to trade, teams will have LESS incentive to make a deal.  Why give up a lot for a guy who has already made it plain that he wants out of Philly and can make that happen after next season?

So while Philly could just let Noel walk for nothing rather than accept less than they may want, it is simply untrue to suggest that somehow they hold all the cards and have no incentive to trade him.

Mike
If they don't get an acceptable offer, they have no incentive to trade him.

I'm not sure that you understand what the word "incentive" means. They have every reason and incentive in the world to make a trade before the deadline, because they're simply not going to pay him the contract he's going to get this summer. Bar none. So he'll essentially walk for nothing otherwise.
I don't think you guys understand what the word incentive means.   If the offers are garbage, they are far better off just keeping Noel off the bench as a defensive role player, either matching or signing him to a QO this Summer, and keeping him as a defensive role player next year until someone gives them an acceptable offer or they eventually let him walk years later or after his QO is over.   

That's unlikely to happen, though.  Lots of teams want Noel.  They'll probably get an offer that makes sense for them at some point before deadline.  If they don't get an acceptable offer, they'll keep him.  Tough cookies, Nerlens.  Suck it up and embrace your new role.

It'd be nice to only reason in the fantasy land that you create this situations out of...

This is the real NBA, and things simply don't work like that. They're not going to screw over a player like that, and you're completely ignorant of how things really work if you think that Noel wouldn't be a locker-room issue in that situation, especially after already voicing complaints.

Once again, this isn't fantasy basketball where context doesn't matter, no matter how much you want it to be...  ::)
You have no basis for anything you're saying.  While Noel has been honest that having three Centers with star potential doesn't make much sense, there's really no basis to him being a "lock-room issue".  There's still minutes he could take there.  He could still help them.  He might still even be a long-term fit there.   

More than likely they'll get an acceptable offer and trade him.  Otherwise, he'll have to suck it up and stay there.
He voiced strong opposition to the logjam and said something has to be done.
He was asked about the situation and he gave a candid answer.

Quote

    "I think it's just silly . . . this situation that we are in now with three starting centers," Noel said on the eve of the Sixers' media day. "With the departure of [former general manager and president] Sam Hinkie, I would have figured that management would be able to get something done this summer."

    ...

    "I feel like it definitely needs to be figured out," he said. "I think at the end of the day, again, you have three starting-caliber centers. And it's just not going to work to anybody's advantage having that on the same team. That's how I'm looking at it. I'm not opposed to anything, but things need to be situated."

    Noel said he wasn't speaking negatively about the team's other starting-caliber centers, Embiid and Jahlil Okafor. Nor was he speaking for them.

    "Don't get me wrong. We all get along great on the court and off the court," Noel said. "But at the end of the day, it's like having three starting quarterbacks. It doesn't make any sense."

People whine about players being politically correct, but Nerlens gives and honest answer to an honest question and folks like you spin it into him being some kind of lockerroom cancer.

Noel didn't say anything that we didn't already know.  Having three centers with star potential doesn't make much sense.  He clearly would prefer to play elsewhere.  Unfortunately for him, he has no choice in the matter.   And unfortunate for him, if nobody makes the Sixers an acceptable offer for Noel, they have no incentive to trade him and he'll be stuck there.   Is what it is.

The thing is, the Sixers could actually use what Noel brings to the table right now.  He might actually have a key role to play on this team.  He might even be able to play with Embiid.  The Sixers might legitimately be better off keeping Noel than trading him for a scrub that's going to get 10-15 minutes off their bench.  There's no sense whatsoever in the team doing that.  That'd be silly.

Haha naw son. Only you can spin the evidence enough to always support your narrative, no matter how ridiculous it is. This is an exercise in futility at this point.

We'll just have to wait until he's traded for a middling return to determine this, which I'm sure will be about the time that you will "move the goalpost" and claim that you were right all along - classic LarBrd33 move (see Brooklyn Nets record last year for an example of this).
I just don't think you understand this situation.

If the Roz hypothetical is too heady for you, how about we imagine a world in which Boston lands a top pick in the 2017 draft and the best player available is by far PG Markelle Fultz.  We'd then have Thomas, Fultz and Smart as our PGs.  Smart would be the odd man out.  He'd suddenly be looking at a Celtic role where his minutes are going to be in sharp decline.  He'd likely be unhappy about that.  Let's say no teams have interest in Smart, because he shoots 30% from the field.   Boston would have to ask themselves the same question... should we just give away Marcus Smart for our "best offer" (let's say that's Josh McRoberts)... or just hang onto Smart and let him keep making contributions in spot-minutes as our 3rd string PG. 

The fact that Noel is still on the team flat-out proves they have yet to get an acceptable offer for him.  Everyone is keenly aware having 3 starting centers is less than ideal.  It's not like this is some grand revelation.  They knew Noel and Okafor couldn't co-exist a year ago.   The fact that all 3 centers remain proves that Philly values those guys more than the rest of the league or the offers they have received haven't been enough to compel them to move one.

They will probably eventually trade Noel.  Lots of teams are interested.  I'd guess it happens before the trade deadline.  Maybe they'll "settle" for a middling offer.  Who knows.  It's irrelevant.  You want to know why nothing has happened yet and I've educated you on why. 

These same people here were telling me that one of the centers "had" to be traded before the season started.  I kept saying that "nope", they didn't "have" to trade one.   They didn't trade one.  I was right.   They really don't "Have" to trade one by the deadline either, but I suspect they will.

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2016, 09:15:40 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Does everyone agree with this:

If Philadelphia has no incentive to trade Noel, they will only trade him if they feel they are getting at least equal value back.  If Philadelphia has incentive to trade Noel, they would be willing to accept less than full value back in a trade.  How much less depends on how much incentive.  Philly could have some incentive to trade Noel and end up not trading him.

There's no point in entertaining any faux scenario where they don't have incentive to trade Noel, because it's absolutely undeniable that they do.

- Contract year that they don't want to pay next summer;

- Major logjam where the coach himself has even said he doesn't know where Noel gets minutes;

- Those things added together equate to major incentive to trade Noel.

This isn't even a question, and it's absolutely verified by numerous differing sources - they want to trade Noel and have every incentive and need to trade him.

I'm starting at the very beginning.  So, you begin with how much value would Philly need to get back if they have zero incentive to trade Noel.  That gives you a baseline value.  Once you establish that price, then you can evaluate how much incentive they have to trade him by determining how much you think they are willing to come down on price in order to move him and get something in return.   

Are they so desperate to trade him that they would move him for a second round pick if that was the best offer at the trade deadline?  I don't think so.  They can have an incentive to trade him, but that doesn't mean they will give him away.  Anyone who thinks that Noel not being traded is proof that Philadelphia has no incentive to trade him is flat-out wrong.

You also need to consider that the 76ers have incentive to not look like a pushover in any trade, since they might be looking to move Okafor also and might end up having to choose between Saric and Simmons and trading one of them, so it may be preferable to get nothing back for Noel instead of giving too much of a discount off of the full price.


I pretty much agree with this. While theoretically something like a 2nd round pick would still be more valuable than just letting him walk, I don't expect them to trade Noel for something as terrible as that. That seems pretty obvious.

But I think something like Rozier and the Memphis pick is fair value for him right now, and they would jump at that if they have nothing better by the deadline.

I'm just saying that they do in reality have significant incentive to trade him, and it's nonsense to think that there is no incentive whatsoever to trade him. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll give him away for a 2nd rounder either. And in the grand scheme of things, I think he ultimately SHOULD be worth much more than something like Rozier and the Memphis pick, but the Sixers have totally mismanaged the situation between his contract situation and the major logjam, which has dramatically decreased his trade value.

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2016, 09:22:58 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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they don't have incentive to do anything. 

Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.  All Noel has left on his rookie deal is the qualifying offer next year.  If he signs that, Philly CANNOT trade him without his consent and he then becomes an unrestricted free agent.  Any team Philly tries to trade Noel to faces the exact same problem.  The longer Philly waits to trade, teams will have LESS incentive to make a deal.  Why give up a lot for a guy who has already made it plain that he wants out of Philly and can make that happen after next season?

So while Philly could just let Noel walk for nothing rather than accept less than they may want, it is simply untrue to suggest that somehow they hold all the cards and have no incentive to trade him.

Mike
If they don't get an acceptable offer, they have no incentive to trade him.

I'm not sure that you understand what the word "incentive" means. They have every reason and incentive in the world to make a trade before the deadline, because they're simply not going to pay him the contract he's going to get this summer. Bar none. So he'll essentially walk for nothing otherwise.
Letting Noel walk for nothing would be better than settling for an unacceptable trade.  I wouldn't trade Noel for Crabbe for example.   

Yeah... no it's not. Anything is better than nothing, even a second round pick. As long as it doesn't hamper them in the future, which pretty much nothing will with their cap situation, then something is always going to be better than nothing for them.
Nonsense.  Taking on a bad contract would be much worse than getting nothing.  By your logic, they ought to be willing to trade Noel for Turner.  Good GMs don't waste cap space to acquire vastly overpaid players on long term contracts.

Sigh. I *explicitly* said the exact opposite of that...

"As long as it doesn't hamper them in the future, which pretty much nothing will with their cap situation, then something is always going to be better than nothing for them."

So, no, my "logic" does not equate to saying they should trade for someone like Turner - I explicitly said the opposite of that. However, something like Rozier and the Memphis pick, if it's on the table, is 50x better than letting him walk for nothing.
You said pretty much nothing will hamper them with their cap space in reference to my saying I wouldn't trade Noel for Crabbe.   Crabbe is on a hugely overpaid contract just like Turner. As for Rozier and the Memphis pick that is a pretty decent offer for Noel.  However it wouldn't be good enough to induce me to trade Noel right now.  I'd showcase Noel and hold out until the trade deadline looking for a better offer.

Oh, I totally agree, though it's going to be hard managing minutes until that time, which might just drive his value down even more.

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2016, 09:37:56 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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they don't have incentive to do anything. 

Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.  All Noel has left on his rookie deal is the qualifying offer next year.  If he signs that, Philly CANNOT trade him without his consent and he then becomes an unrestricted free agent.  Any team Philly tries to trade Noel to faces the exact same problem.  The longer Philly waits to trade, teams will have LESS incentive to make a deal.  Why give up a lot for a guy who has already made it plain that he wants out of Philly and can make that happen after next season?

So while Philly could just let Noel walk for nothing rather than accept less than they may want, it is simply untrue to suggest that somehow they hold all the cards and have no incentive to trade him.

Mike
If they don't get an acceptable offer, they have no incentive to trade him.

I'm not sure that you understand what the word "incentive" means. They have every reason and incentive in the world to make a trade before the deadline, because they're simply not going to pay him the contract he's going to get this summer. Bar none. So he'll essentially walk for nothing otherwise.
Letting Noel walk for nothing would be better than settling for an unacceptable trade.  I wouldn't trade Noel for Crabbe for example.   

Yeah... no it's not. Anything is better than nothing, even a second round pick. As long as it doesn't hamper them in the future, which pretty much nothing will with their cap situation, then something is always going to be better than nothing for them.
Nonsense.  Taking on a bad contract would be much worse than getting nothing.  By your logic, they ought to be willing to trade Noel for Turner.  Good GMs don't waste cap space to acquire vastly overpaid players on long term contracts.

Sigh. I *explicitly* said the exact opposite of that...

"As long as it doesn't hamper them in the future, which pretty much nothing will with their cap situation, then something is always going to be better than nothing for them."

So, no, my "logic" does not equate to saying they should trade for someone like Turner - I explicitly said the opposite of that. However, something like Rozier and the Memphis pick, if it's on the table, is 50x better than letting him walk for nothing.
You said pretty much nothing will hamper them with their cap space in reference to my saying I wouldn't trade Noel for Crabbe.   Crabbe is on a hugely overpaid contract just like Turner. As for Rozier and the Memphis pick that is a pretty decent offer for Noel.  However it wouldn't be good enough to induce me to trade Noel right now.  I'd showcase Noel and hold out until the trade deadline looking for a better offer.

Oh, I totally agree, though it's going to be hard managing minutes until that time, which might just drive his value down even more.
Embiid is still not playing B2Bs.  Noel doesn't need to get a lot of minutes.  Just enough to remind GMs of his rookie season.  They definitely need to play him at C not PF to showcase him but I'd like to see Noel and Embiid on the court together. 

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2016, 09:53:07 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Philly's ideal trade is to find a team that is willing to give Biyombo-level money  (or more) to Noel and work out a trade that treats Noel as practically under contract for for more years.

Maybe Dallas likes Noel and (after January 14) they trade Bogut to Boston, Boston sends Demetrius Jackson, Tyler Zeller, and draft considerations to Philly, while Dallas sends a protected future first to the Sixers.
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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2016, 09:54:37 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Does everyone agree with this:

If Philadelphia has no incentive to trade Noel, they will only trade him if they feel they are getting at least equal value back.  If Philadelphia has incentive to trade Noel, they would be willing to accept less than full value back in a trade.  How much less depends on how much incentive.  Philly could have some incentive to trade Noel and end up not trading him.

There's no point in entertaining any faux scenario where they don't have incentive to trade Noel, because it's absolutely undeniable that they do.

- Contract year that they don't want to pay next summer;

- Major logjam where the coach himself has even said he doesn't know where Noel gets minutes;

- Those things added together equate to major incentive to trade Noel.

This isn't even a question, and it's absolutely verified by numerous differing sources - they want to trade Noel and have every incentive and need to trade him.

I'm starting at the very beginning.  So, you begin with how much value would Philly need to get back if they have zero incentive to trade Noel.  That gives you a baseline value.  Once you establish that price, then you can evaluate how much incentive they have to trade him by determining how much you think they are willing to come down on price in order to move him and get something in return.   

Are they so desperate to trade him that they would move him for a second round pick if that was the best offer at the trade deadline?  I don't think so.  They can have an incentive to trade him, but that doesn't mean they will give him away.  Anyone who thinks that Noel not being traded is proof that Philadelphia has no incentive to trade him is flat-out wrong.

You also need to consider that the 76ers have incentive to not look like a pushover in any trade, since they might be looking to move Okafor also and might end up having to choose between Saric and Simmons and trading one of them, so it may be preferable to get nothing back for Noel instead of giving too much of a discount off of the full price.


I pretty much agree with this. While theoretically something like a 2nd round pick would still be more valuable than just letting him walk, I don't expect them to trade Noel for something as terrible as that. That seems pretty obvious.

But I think something like Rozier and the Memphis pick is fair value for him right now, and they would jump at that if they have nothing better by the deadline.

I'm just saying that they do in reality have significant incentive to trade him, and it's nonsense to think that there is no incentive whatsoever to trade him. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll give him away for a 2nd rounder either. And in the grand scheme of things, I think he ultimately SHOULD be worth much more than something like Rozier and the Memphis pick, but the Sixers have totally mismanaged the situation between his contract situation and the major logjam, which has dramatically decreased his trade value.
I see where your confusion is coming from. 

It's the word "incentive".

"a thing that motivates or encourages one to do something."

You think I'm saying Philly has no interest in trading Noel.  Obviously, there's motivation for them to trade one of the bigs.   Nobody is disputing a lack of motivation.   Ideally they would like to move Noel for equal value at a position of need.  He's a starting center who might be one of the best defenders in the league.  They unfortunately have even greater center prospects demanding more minutes.  If they can get the equivalent of Noel's impact in at off-guard or small-forward, they'd likely be thrilled.  I'm sure they are motivated to find those kind of offers if they are out there.

Yes, there is incentive for them to seek a trade.

Don't confuse that with incentive to pull the trigger on a trade.  If the offer they get is garbage... perhaps an even worse Center... there's no incentive to do that.  Do you understand that?   If hypothetically the best offer they get is Bismack Biyombo and his fat contract... is there really any logic to Philly pulling the trigger on that?  Swap out one offensively inept defensive center for a higher paid offensively inept defensive center?  No point.  Thus, no incentive to make a deal.   

So far, while Philly has clearly had their ears open to trades and several teams including Boston has reportedly made offers... nothing has been enough.   The fact he's still on Philly proves this.

And again, try to imagine a hypothetical where this summer we land the prize pick of the draft and select star PG prospect Markelle Fultz.   Let's imagine Marcus Smart keeps struggling offensively this season and the best offer we get this Summer for Marcus is Josh McRoberts from Miami.   Marcus might be very upset about the situation... going into the final year of his rookie year and looking at a minute decrease to 15-20 behind Fultz and Thomas.  We'll have incentive to seek a trade... we'll likely be looking for bigs who can help us.  But if Josh McRoberts is the only offer, will that really be enough incentive for us to pull the trigger?   Would that really help us more than Smart getting limited minutes?  How does 10-15 minutes of McRoberts make us better than 10-15 minutes of Smart? 

That's the situation Philly might be in right now.  Though I think with December 15 coming and Noel likely being showcased for a few games, and multiple teams reportedly interested in him... it's a pretty easy bet that they'll trade Noel for something before the deadline.  He's found money anyways.   

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2016, 10:26:04 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Philly's ideal trade is to find a team that is willing to give Biyombo-level money  (or more) to Noel and work out a trade that treats Noel as practically under contract for for more years.

Maybe Dallas likes Noel and (after January 14) they trade Bogut to Boston, Boston sends Demetrius Jackson, Tyler Zeller, and draft considerations to Philly, while Dallas sends a protected future first to the Sixers.
Dallas is a possibility but I think the Blazers, Suns and NOP would be better fits for Noel.  Noel works best on a fast pace team. 

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2016, 10:27:45 PM »

Offline max215

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Makes sense. Their defense is pitiful, and it probably makes more sense to commit to Nerlens than Plumlee.
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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2016, 10:36:26 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Philly's ideal trade is to find a team that is willing to give Biyombo-level money  (or more) to Noel and work out a trade that treats Noel as practically under contract for for more years.

Maybe Dallas likes Noel and (after January 14) they trade Bogut to Boston, Boston sends Demetrius Jackson, Tyler Zeller, and draft considerations to Philly, while Dallas sends a protected future first to the Sixers.
Dallas is a possibility but I think the Blazers, Suns and NOP would be better fits for Noel.  Noel works best on a fast pace team.
lakers are a great fit

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2016, 10:46:23 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Philly's ideal trade is to find a team that is willing to give Biyombo-level money  (or more) to Noel and work out a trade that treats Noel as practically under contract for for more years.

Maybe Dallas likes Noel and (after January 14) they trade Bogut to Boston, Boston sends Demetrius Jackson, Tyler Zeller, and draft considerations to Philly, while Dallas sends a protected future first to the Sixers.
Dallas is a possibility but I think the Blazers, Suns and NOP would be better fits for Noel.  Noel works best on a fast pace team.
lakers are a great fit
I was going to mention the Lakers but I'm not sure how well Randle and Noel would fit.  Davis and Noel seems like a great fit to me. 

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2016, 11:05:46 PM »

Offline fantankerous

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 Rozier and the Memphis pick is a huge overpay for a mediocre (at best) player like Noel.  If Noel were raised in Arizona, the interest in him on this board would be non-existent.  This is proof positive that nationalism (localalism) is reactionary.

Additionally, Philly has no incentive to move Noel.  They can easily match any offer sheet and delay moving him (or another big) for another year or two.  There's no reason Philly should simply take the best current offer available.

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2016, 11:18:36 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Rozier and the Memphis pick is a huge overpay for a mediocre (at best) player like Noel.  If Noel were raised in Arizona, the interest in him on this board would be non-existent.  This is proof positive that nationalism (localalism) is reactionary.

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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2016, 11:42:48 PM »

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I'd take him on the Celtics. 22 yo, 11 pt, 8 reb, 1.6 blocks. I'd give him $10m per year for 4 years.

I wouldn't overpay him. I'm guessing there's a team desperate to fill out a roster with talent to overpay.

Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2016, 11:45:55 PM »

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I'd take him on the Celtics. 22 yo, 11 pt, 8 reb, 1.6 blocks. I'd give him $10m per year for 4 years.

I wouldn't overpay him. I'm guessing there's a team desperate to fill out a roster with talent to overpay.
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Re: Report: Blazers interested in Noel
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2016, 12:30:47 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I'd take him on the Celtics. 22 yo, 11 pt, 8 reb, 1.6 blocks. I'd give him $10m per year for 4 years.

I wouldn't overpay him. I'm guessing there's a team desperate to fill out a roster with talent to overpay.

Bismack Biyombo got four years and $72 million.  The salary cap is going up.
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