Author Topic: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread (We Did It Guys! Fireworks!!!)  (Read 325422 times)

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Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2017, 07:44:13 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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So we play the Jazz tomorrow night.

Hayward is averaging as of now 23/6/4. He's kind of like IT in the sense that he can give you almost 20-25 any given night. He's also put up 30 or more in 3 of his last 5 games. He's a pretty decent rebounder and his defense is average (not elite but not bad either). Pretty much consistent to the stats he was putting the last time these teams played.

Will be interesting to see what happens this summer with him, though I predict he will stay in Utah (they are a great team as well and can offer more $$$)

Yeah, I think the Jazz have played well enough to convince Hayward to stick around.  Good for them.  Bad for (some of) us.

Yep, it's a shame because he was probably like the second best FA available behind Griffin (because obviously KD, Curry and Lowry obviously aren't leaving their current teams unless something catastrophic happens between now and the summer).

Looks like for us, we will have to settle for either Ibaka or Millsap (I think Noel stays with Philly too - I'm not holding out a ton of hope he comes here this summer).

I'm still leading the Otto Porter bandwagon.

I don't think many here are on that train lol.

They should be.  He's 24 in June and leading the league in 3-point shooting and offensive rating, and is a solid rebounder.  His game has taken large steps up each year, and he's at least $5 million cheaper a year than Hayward.
Porter is a RFA.  I'd expect Washington to match any offer for him.

Unless they dump salary, I wouldn't.  They've never paid the luxury tax (1 of only 3 teams). Their owner has said he pretty much never intends to pay it.  If Porter gets offered the max and they match it, and fill all of their other open roster spots with players making the minimum (including either renouncing their 1st rounder or stashing him overseas), they'd be more than $6 million over the tax line.  Even outright dumping their worst contract in Andrew Nicholson won't likely get them below the tax despite hypothetically 5 players making the minimum.

Sure, the owner could change his tune, but as a DC resident, I can assure you he's much more likely to say that losing Porter is why he needs a new arena.

I still prefer Hayward, mind you.  I just think that Porter might wind up being more obtainable.
How is Nicholson their worst contract?  Mahinmi's contract is terrible although they are never going to get anyone to take it.  Right now they are on track to get the 23rd pick. They'd be smart to trade it to dump two of Nicholson, Smith and Satoransky so they could retain Porter.  That would be a smart move for the Nets rather than using their cap space to overpay for mediocre vets. 

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2017, 09:17:09 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Here is our Summer Free Agent Target!  ;D

Griffin is too I guess.. either would be great.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2017, 09:18:42 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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WOW Gordon Hayward dunked OVER the Greek Freak!!!

Jazz lead 59-46 at halftime. Hayward with 12 points in 16 minutes.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2017, 07:08:23 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Hayward with 23 points and 7 rebounds against the Wizards.

"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2017, 07:22:06 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Now he has 30 points 8 rebounds and is putting them away!

"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2017, 10:25:13 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Against a great Houston Team, Hayward with 23 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists.

Unfortunately the Jazz won.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2017, 11:02:17 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Nice article on him the other day:

https://theringer.com/while-you-werent-looking-gordon-hayward-became-amazing-abb2d361c744#.dvyybixje

And I'll probably get vilified for this, but he comps well to Pierce at the same age.

http://bkref.com/tiny/pD5pE

Count me among those who think we have a shot at him.

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2017, 03:07:44 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Nice article on him the other day:

https://theringer.com/while-you-werent-looking-gordon-hayward-became-amazing-abb2d361c744#.dvyybixje

And I'll probably get vilified for this, but he comps well to Pierce at the same age.

http://bkref.com/tiny/pD5pE

Count me among those who think we have a shot at him.

I think we do as well.

As long as Utah is a first round exit and BOS at least makes the 2nd round.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2017, 12:56:47 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Hayward with a crisp 27 points in 36 minutes on 9-18 shooting.

Utah beat the Clippers.

Blake Griffin struggled mightily in the game having 8 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2017, 10:39:00 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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So Hayward has had a couple of duds lately.

Shot poorly and only had 13 points in CLE game and 14 last night vs CHI.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2017, 12:47:01 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I don't understand the infatuation with Hayward.  He's not better than Crowder.  Why are we obsessed with filling a spot that we aready have a top 10 player in?

In terms of Real Plus Minus top 10 small forwards are currently:

1. Lebron James
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Giannis
6. Otto Porter Jr.
7. Jae Crowder
8. Gordon Hayward
9. Trevor Ariza
10. Robert Covington

A lot of people will argue that Paul George should be on this list, but he's not playing defense at an above average level this year and came in 12th in real plus minus among small forwards.

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2017, 02:13:24 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I don't understand the infatuation with Hayward.  He's not better than Crowder.  Why are we obsessed with filling a spot that we aready have a top 10 player in?

In terms of Real Plus Minus top 10 small forwards are currently:

1. Lebron James
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Giannis
6. Otto Porter Jr.
7. Jae Crowder
8. Gordon Hayward
9. Trevor Ariza
10. Robert Covington

A lot of people will argue that Paul George should be on this list, but he's not playing defense at an above average level this year and came in 12th in real plus minus among small forwards.

It has to do with the fact that Hayward is probably our "most realistic star FA Target" unless you are confident Blake Griffin is leaving LAC.

Now Hayward is not guaranteed to leave Utah either but there's a better chance he leaves than Griffin.

I agree he's not a huge upgrade over Crowder but he can score a lot a game and we need a #2 scorer as well.

My dream target is Griffin but Plan B is Hayward.

Now if they don't make a max signing then they won't be able to in future years as well because this is the last year with Max cap space before rookie deals and extensions all kick in.

If you can't sign Griffin or Hayward, you probably can go after a second tier star like Millsap or Ibaka or even Porter, or just re-sign all the guys with extensions/exception signings (KO, Amir, etc.) and just add Fultz/Jackson and Zizic.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2017, 02:57:57 PM »

Offline LilRip

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I don't understand the infatuation with Hayward.  He's not better than Crowder.  Why are we obsessed with filling a spot that we aready have a top 10 player in?

In terms of Real Plus Minus top 10 small forwards are currently:

1. Lebron James
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Giannis
6. Otto Porter Jr.
7. Jae Crowder
8. Gordon Hayward
9. Trevor Ariza
10. Robert Covington

A lot of people will argue that Paul George should be on this list, but he's not playing defense at an above average level this year and came in 12th in real plus minus among small forwards.

I don't see how Crowder is better than Hayward. I mean, based on RPM, Butler is supposedly better than Durant and Kawhi Leonard. I don't think that's the case.

Crowder is a solid role player and starter. Classic 3 and D guy. But Hayward is (deservedly) an all star and is on the bubble for an All NBA appearance (he probably won't make it though). I doubt Crowder would ever make an all star team, even if he was on that Jazz squad. Meanwhile Hayward would still be named an all star here.
- LilRip

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2017, 03:02:53 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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I don't understand the infatuation with Hayward.  He's not better than Crowder.  Why are we obsessed with filling a spot that we aready have a top 10 player in?

In terms of Real Plus Minus top 10 small forwards are currently:

1. Lebron James
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Giannis
6. Otto Porter Jr.
7. Jae Crowder
8. Gordon Hayward
9. Trevor Ariza
10. Robert Covington

A lot of people will argue that Paul George should be on this list, but he's not playing defense at an above average level this year and came in 12th in real plus minus among small forwards.

This is a pretty thin argument with Crowder and Hayward being 7 and 8 on the list, what are the numbers? Is it a + 2,3, or 5? Or is it a +.5 or 1 in favor of Crowder?

Also according to the list Butler is a better SF than Durant and Leonard. Crowder is a nice player, but Hayward is more complete,he can play PG, guards better than people give him credit for, and can create his own shot, which is where he really separates himself from Crowder, and something the C's really need.

Re: 2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2017, 04:11:52 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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I don't understand the infatuation with Hayward.  He's not better than Crowder.  Why are we obsessed with filling a spot that we aready have a top 10 player in?

In terms of Real Plus Minus top 10 small forwards are currently:

1. Lebron James
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Giannis
6. Otto Porter Jr.
7. Jae Crowder
8. Gordon Hayward
9. Trevor Ariza
10. Robert Covington

A lot of people will argue that Paul George should be on this list, but he's not playing defense at an above average level this year and came in 12th in real plus minus among small forwards.

This is a pretty thin argument with Crowder and Hayward being 7 and 8 on the list, what are the numbers? Is it a + 2,3, or 5? Or is it a +.5 or 1 in favor of Crowder?

Also according to the list Butler is a better SF than Durant and Leonard. Crowder is a nice player, but Hayward is more complete,he can play PG, guards better than people give him credit for, and can create his own shot, which is where he really separates himself from Crowder, and something the C's really need.



 Also Hayward can start at SG, and Crowder can start at SF.

 Actually what I think we should do if we sign Hayward is this. Move on from Amir and Start...

 Horford
 Crowder
 Hayward
 Bradley
 Thomas

 This way Crowder and Bradley get to keep their starting role. Smart is the ultimate Swiss army knife off the bench.

 Brown can fill in minutes at the two, three, and four. Plus we are adding, Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum.

 That 8 man rotation is insane. Plus Zizic, Yabu, Rozier. Gotta love that team.