2016-2017 Gordon Hayward Thread (We Did It Guys! Fireworks!!!)

[Phantom255x]

On First Take, Max Kellerman thinks Hayward to Boston would be the ABSOLUTE BEST fit for both sides, and could legitimately contend against Cleveland.

Take that as you may.

To me, the issue is, as another thread on here states, if we add Hayward, what other big or PF are we adding? Because then we'd lack depth there with so many departures.

Horford, Zizic, then who? We also lose MLE signing Hayward, so that's not an option either (though that would have been nice for someone like Gibson).

I saw another poster mention Faried a while back, and the more I think about it the more I like it. He'd GREATLY help our rebounding issues, and we could certainly use his athleticism and tenacity from the 4 spot. They were looking to offload him this season already, too.

If we would luck out and get Fultz in the draft, then you could offer up something like AB and Rozier for Faried. I doubt AB alone would do it since they have Harris and Murray already, but Rozier would interest them since they're looking for a PG prospect. You'd have to keep AB in there for salary purposes, and they could use him as trade bait elsewhere (like OKC?). You may or may not have to sweeten the pot with 2nd round picks.

But that'd leave you with a great lineup:

PG: IT, Fultz
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Crowder, Brown
PF: Faried, ? (Maybe Yabu?)
C: Horford, Zizic

really?  that much ??

Yeah that sounds like too much honestly.

I'd try to keep Rozier (AB would HAVE to be included though for the deal to happen)

[jpotter33]

On First Take, Max Kellerman thinks Hayward to Boston would be the ABSOLUTE BEST fit for both sides, and could legitimately contend against Cleveland.

Take that as you may.

To me, the issue is, as another thread on here states, if we add Hayward, what other big or PF are we adding? Because then we'd lack depth there with so many departures.

Horford, Zizic, then who? We also lose MLE signing Hayward, so that's not an option either (though that would have been nice for someone like Gibson).

I saw another poster mention Faried a while back, and the more I think about it the more I like it. He'd GREATLY help our rebounding issues, and we could certainly use his athleticism and tenacity from the 4 spot. They were looking to offload him this season already, too.

If we would luck out and get Fultz in the draft, then you could offer up something like AB and Rozier for Faried. I doubt AB alone would do it since they have Harris and Murray already, but Rozier would interest them since they're looking for a PG prospect. You'd have to keep AB in there for salary purposes, and they could use him as trade bait elsewhere (like OKC?). You may or may not have to sweeten the pot with 2nd round picks.

But that'd leave you with a great lineup:

PG: IT, Fultz
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Crowder, Brown
PF: Faried, ? (Maybe Yabu?)
C: Horford, Zizic

really?  that much ??

Not sure that AB would do it by himself (I figure they'd trade him for other assets since they have Harris and Murray already), but he'd have to be included at that point due to salary reasons. Also, if we get Fultz, then Rozier would be redundant. So it's not as high of a price as it looks given the context.

It'd be awesome to get him for just AB if possible, but I think one of Rozier or Smart  would still need to be traded due to a lack of minutes. That'd be IT, Hayward, Smart, Fultz, Rozier, and Brown that'd all deserve some time at either the 1 or 2 or both, which is a problem. Ideally we'd trade one of them for a bench big, perhaps like O'Quinn of Holmes or something.

[Ilikesports17]

On First Take, Max Kellerman thinks Hayward to Boston would be the ABSOLUTE BEST fit for both sides, and could legitimately contend against Cleveland.

Take that as you may.

To me, the issue is, as another thread on here states, if we add Hayward, what other big or PF are we adding? Because then we'd lack depth there with so many departures.

Horford, Zizic, then who? We also lose MLE signing Hayward, so that's not an option either (though that would have been nice for someone like Gibson).

I saw another poster mention Faried a while back, and the more I think about it the more I like it. He'd GREATLY help our rebounding issues, and we could certainly use his athleticism and tenacity from the 4 spot. They were looking to offload him this season already, too.

If we would luck out and get Fultz in the draft, then you could offer up something like AB and Rozier for Faried. I doubt AB alone would do it since they have Harris and Murray already, but Rozier would interest them since they're looking for a PG prospect. You'd have to keep AB in there for salary purposes, and they could use him as trade bait elsewhere (like OKC?). You may or may not have to sweeten the pot with 2nd round picks.

But that'd leave you with a great lineup:

PG: IT, Fultz
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Crowder, Brown
PF: Faried, ? (Maybe Yabu?)
C: Horford, Zizic

really?  that much ??

Not sure that AB would do it by himself (I figure they'd trade him for other assets since they have Harris and Murray already), but he'd have to be included at that point due to salary reasons. Also, if we get Fultz, then Rozier would be redundant. So it's not as high of a price as it looks given the context.

It'd be awesome to get him for just AB if possible, but I think one of Rozier or Smart  would still need to be traded due to a lack of minutes. That'd be IT, Hayward, Smart, Fultz, Rozier, and Brown that'd all deserve some time at either the 1 or 2 or both, which is a problem. Ideally we'd trade one of them for a bench big, perhaps like O'Quinn of Holmes or something.

AB for Faried is an overpay in itself. Faried just isnt that good. Doesnt really defend anymore and his offensive game never developped. Plus he isnt elite on the glass anymore either.

[jpotter33]

On First Take, Max Kellerman thinks Hayward to Boston would be the ABSOLUTE BEST fit for both sides, and could legitimately contend against Cleveland.

Take that as you may.

To me, the issue is, as another thread on here states, if we add Hayward, what other big or PF are we adding? Because then we'd lack depth there with so many departures.

Horford, Zizic, then who? We also lose MLE signing Hayward, so that's not an option either (though that would have been nice for someone like Gibson).

I saw another poster mention Faried a while back, and the more I think about it the more I like it. He'd GREATLY help our rebounding issues, and we could certainly use his athleticism and tenacity from the 4 spot. They were looking to offload him this season already, too.

If we would luck out and get Fultz in the draft, then you could offer up something like AB and Rozier for Faried. I doubt AB alone would do it since they have Harris and Murray already, but Rozier would interest them since they're looking for a PG prospect. You'd have to keep AB in there for salary purposes, and they could use him as trade bait elsewhere (like OKC?). You may or may not have to sweeten the pot with 2nd round picks.

But that'd leave you with a great lineup:

PG: IT, Fultz
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Crowder, Brown
PF: Faried, ? (Maybe Yabu?)
C: Horford, Zizic

really?  that much ??

Not sure that AB would do it by himself (I figure they'd trade him for other assets since they have Harris and Murray already), but he'd have to be included at that point due to salary reasons. Also, if we get Fultz, then Rozier would be redundant. So it's not as high of a price as it looks given the context.

It'd be awesome to get him for just AB if possible, but I think one of Rozier or Smart  would still need to be traded due to a lack of minutes. That'd be IT, Hayward, Smart, Fultz, Rozier, and Brown that'd all deserve some time at either the 1 or 2 or both, which is a problem. Ideally we'd trade one of them for a bench big, perhaps like O'Quinn of Holmes or something.

AB for Faried is an overpay in itself. Faried just isnt that good. Doesnt really defend anymore and his offensive game never developped. Plus he isnt elite on the glass anymore either.

This season he had an ORB% of 15.5, DRB% of 23.6, and a TRB% of 19.6 with a per-36 number of 12.7 rebounds per game.

Compare that to Horford with an ORB% of 4.9, DRB% of 18.6, and a TRB% of 11.8 with a per-36 number of 7.6 rebounds per game.

His rebounding and athleticism alone would greatly help us. I don't think it's an overpay since we almost have to trade AB anyways due to us not going to be able to pay him what he'll command next year.

[Atzar]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25. 

[jpotter33]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25.

Favors is a good option, too.

The problem with Favors though is that he expires the same time as Bradley, so it doesn't really help you there. You'd still be faced with the same problem in 2018 as you would with keeping Bradley.

[tankcity!]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25.

Favors is a good option, too.

The problem with Favors though is that he expires the same time as Bradley, so it doesn't really help you there. You'd still be faced with the same problem in 2018 as you would with keeping Bradley.

I wish I could make a farting noise.

Ainge is going to use his assets for stars imo. I also agree with him. Rozier, Crowder, Bradley are all being saved up for one big trade imo.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25.

Favors is a good option, too.

The problem with Favors though is that he expires the same time as Bradley, so it doesn't really help you there. You'd still be faced with the same problem in 2018 as you would with keeping Bradley.

I wish I could make a farting noise.

Ainge is going to use his assets for stars imo. I also agree with him. Rozier, Crowder, Bradley are all being saved up for one big trade imo.

Agreed. I imagine Anthony Davis is his next KG, but I doubt he's going to land him.  Porzingis seems more likely, but also a long shot.   

[jpotter33]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25.

Favors is a good option, too.

The problem with Favors though is that he expires the same time as Bradley, so it doesn't really help you there. You'd still be faced with the same problem in 2018 as you would with keeping Bradley.

I wish I could make a farting noise.

Ainge is going to use his assets for stars imo. I also agree with him. Rozier, Crowder, Bradley are all being saved up for one big trade imo.

The premise of the thread (or at least this particular discussion) is that you've already landed Hayward. So you'd already have IT, Hayward, and Horford as your "stars," if you can call them that. At that point you're looking for the connecting pieces, not additional stars.

We're not going to have the salary to get another star on top of those three. The only real possibility would be an up-and-coming star under a rookie-type contract, like Porzingis for something like the Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and other assets. But that would change your whole outlook on team-building.

[tankcity!]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25.

Favors is a good option, too.

The problem with Favors though is that he expires the same time as Bradley, so it doesn't really help you there. You'd still be faced with the same problem in 2018 as you would with keeping Bradley.

I wish I could make a farting noise.

Ainge is going to use his assets for stars imo. I also agree with him. Rozier, Crowder, Bradley are all being saved up for one big trade imo.

The premise of the thread (or at least this particular discussion) is that you've already landed Hayward. So you'd already have IT, Hayward, and Horford as your "stars," if you can call them that. At that point you're looking for the connecting pieces, not additional stars.

We're not going to have the salary to get another star on top of those three. The only real possibility would be an up-and-coming star under a rookie-type contract, like Porzingis for something like the Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and other assets. But that would change your whole outlook on team-building.

First, if we sign Hayward, Ainge is going to trade for another star. There should be a way to do this around the cap. I believe we can do this before resigning IT actually. Because he is not a max player yet so you still have that third slot. Look at Cavs roster for example. They go over tax by the way, and so will we.

Second, this hypothetical team you're putting out there with Faried isn't going to win us a ring. We need to have three max players on the roster before resigning IT. I believe that is the focus.

[tazzmaniac]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25.

Favors is a good option, too.

The problem with Favors though is that he expires the same time as Bradley, so it doesn't really help you there. You'd still be faced with the same problem in 2018 as you would with keeping Bradley.

I wish I could make a farting noise.

Ainge is going to use his assets for stars imo. I also agree with him. Rozier, Crowder, Bradley are all being saved up for one big trade imo.

The premise of the thread (or at least this particular discussion) is that you've already landed Hayward. So you'd already have IT, Hayward, and Horford as your "stars," if you can call them that. At that point you're looking for the connecting pieces, not additional stars.

We're not going to have the salary to get another star on top of those three. The only real possibility would be an up-and-coming star under a rookie-type contract, like Porzingis for something like the Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and other assets. But that would change your whole outlook on team-building.

Unfortunately, I don't see us being a contender with IT, Hayward and Horford as our stars even though we'll probably be spending ~85% of cap on them.  If we get the #1 pick, I think we draft Fultz and hope we can draft a star big man in 2018.  If Fultz shows his star potential in his rookie season, I'd let IT walk rather than giving him MAX.  If we don't get the #1 pick, I'd try to trade the pick plus AB and Crowder for Butler.  He has 2 years on his contract so hopefully we could avoid luxury tax until Horford's last year.  PG would probably be better but I think there is a good chance he'd be a 1 year rental. 

[jpotter33]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25.

Favors is a good option, too.

The problem with Favors though is that he expires the same time as Bradley, so it doesn't really help you there. You'd still be faced with the same problem in 2018 as you would with keeping Bradley.

I wish I could make a farting noise.

Ainge is going to use his assets for stars imo. I also agree with him. Rozier, Crowder, Bradley are all being saved up for one big trade imo.

The premise of the thread (or at least this particular discussion) is that you've already landed Hayward. So you'd already have IT, Hayward, and Horford as your "stars," if you can call them that. At that point you're looking for the connecting pieces, not additional stars.

We're not going to have the salary to get another star on top of those three. The only real possibility would be an up-and-coming star under a rookie-type contract, like Porzingis for something like the Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and other assets. But that would change your whole outlook on team-building.

Unfortunately, I don't see us being a contender with IT, Hayward and Horford as our stars even though we'll probably be spending ~85% of cap on them.  If we get the #1 pick, I think we draft Fultz and hope we can draft a star big man in 2018.  If Fultz shows his star potential in his rookie season, I'd let IT walk rather than giving him MAX.  If we don't get the #1 pick, I'd try to trade the pick plus AB and Crowder for Butler.  He has 2 years on his contract so hopefully we could avoid luxury tax until Horford's last year.  PG would probably be better but I think there is a good chance he'd be a 1 year rental.

While I disagree with those three not being able to make us a contender (I think that would ultimately depend upon the pieces Danny filled in around them and the development of Brown, Fultz, Smart, Rozier, Zizic, etc.), I completely agree about everything else you said, specifically the Fultz or bust/trade mentality and the hope that Fultz can make not paying IT a five year max a reality.

But that's pretty much what I was saying, too - with Al, IT, and Hayward going to be taking up so much of our cap, there's no realistic/economical way to try and pull in another max-level player, too.

[Ilikesports17]

On First Take, Max Kellerman thinks Hayward to Boston would be the ABSOLUTE BEST fit for both sides, and could legitimately contend against Cleveland.

Take that as you may.

To me, the issue is, as another thread on here states, if we add Hayward, what other big or PF are we adding? Because then we'd lack depth there with so many departures.

Horford, Zizic, then who? We also lose MLE signing Hayward, so that's not an option either (though that would have been nice for someone like Gibson).

I saw another poster mention Faried a while back, and the more I think about it the more I like it. He'd GREATLY help our rebounding issues, and we could certainly use his athleticism and tenacity from the 4 spot. They were looking to offload him this season already, too.

If we would luck out and get Fultz in the draft, then you could offer up something like AB and Rozier for Faried. I doubt AB alone would do it since they have Harris and Murray already, but Rozier would interest them since they're looking for a PG prospect. You'd have to keep AB in there for salary purposes, and they could use him as trade bait elsewhere (like OKC?). You may or may not have to sweeten the pot with 2nd round picks.

But that'd leave you with a great lineup:

PG: IT, Fultz
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Crowder, Brown
PF: Faried, ? (Maybe Yabu?)
C: Horford, Zizic

really?  that much ??

Not sure that AB would do it by himself (I figure they'd trade him for other assets since they have Harris and Murray already), but he'd have to be included at that point due to salary reasons. Also, if we get Fultz, then Rozier would be redundant. So it's not as high of a price as it looks given the context.

It'd be awesome to get him for just AB if possible, but I think one of Rozier or Smart  would still need to be traded due to a lack of minutes. That'd be IT, Hayward, Smart, Fultz, Rozier, and Brown that'd all deserve some time at either the 1 or 2 or both, which is a problem. Ideally we'd trade one of them for a bench big, perhaps like O'Quinn of Holmes or something.

AB for Faried is an overpay in itself. Faried just isnt that good. Doesnt really defend anymore and his offensive game never developped. Plus he isnt elite on the glass anymore either.

This season he had an ORB% of 15.5, DRB% of 23.6, and a TRB% of 19.6 with a per-36 number of 12.7 rebounds per game.

Compare that to Horford with an ORB% of 4.9, DRB% of 18.6, and a TRB% of 11.8 with a per-36 number of 7.6 rebounds per game.

His rebounding and athleticism alone would greatly help us. I don't think it's an overpay since we almost have to trade AB anyways due to us not going to be able to pay him what he'll command next year.

I mean he is certainly a good rebounder. I just dont think hes a good enough player to justify trading Avery Bradley and Terry Rozier. You suffer a net value loss there, and a pretty substantial one at that.

Farried could only manage 21 minutes a game on the Nuggets. You cant trade Avery Bradley for that. Not to mention Rozier, who is cost-controlled for 2 more years and has shown some flashes this year in the place.

[td450]

I'd take a look at Favors.  We might be able to buy low on him - he had a down year plagued by injuries and lost his starting job.  One year removed from being a very productive player, though, and still only 25.

Favors is a good option, too.

The problem with Favors though is that he expires the same time as Bradley, so it doesn't really help you there. You'd still be faced with the same problem in 2018 as you would with keeping Bradley.

I wish I could make a farting noise.

Ainge is going to use his assets for stars imo. I also agree with him. Rozier, Crowder, Bradley are all being saved up for one big trade imo.

The premise of the thread (or at least this particular discussion) is that you've already landed Hayward. So you'd already have IT, Hayward, and Horford as your "stars," if you can call them that. At that point you're looking for the connecting pieces, not additional stars.

We're not going to have the salary to get another star on top of those three. The only real possibility would be an up-and-coming star under a rookie-type contract, like Porzingis for something like the Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and other assets. But that would change your whole outlook on team-building.

Unfortunately, I don't see us being a contender with IT, Hayward and Horford as our stars even though we'll probably be spending ~85% of cap on them.  If we get the #1 pick, I think we draft Fultz and hope we can draft a star big man in 2018.  If Fultz shows his star potential in his rookie season, I'd let IT walk rather than giving him MAX.  If we don't get the #1 pick, I'd try to trade the pick plus AB and Crowder for Butler.  He has 2 years on his contract so hopefully we could avoid luxury tax until Horford's last year.  PG would probably be better but I think there is a good chance he'd be a 1 year rental.

While I disagree with those three not being able to make us a contender (I think that would ultimately depend upon the pieces Danny filled in around them and the development of Brown, Fultz, Smart, Rozier, Zizic, etc.), I completely agree about everything else you said, specifically the Fultz or bust/trade mentality and the hope that Fultz can make not paying IT a five year max a reality.

But that's pretty much what I was saying, too - with Al, IT, and Hayward going to be taking up so much of our cap, there's no realistic/economical way to try and pull in another max-level player, too.

Keep in mind a few points:

We will have a shot at a free agent next year, and then that's it. We are then over the cap for the foreseeable future. No use worrying about it.

Al Horford's contract is not forever. We will have to pay Bradley and IT starting after next year, and that overlaps Horford's deal for two years. This may be a very expensive couple of years, but if they pay the bill, management will bridge this core with the next core perfectly. Jaylen Brown and the two Brooklyn picks will be ready to assume starting roles.

At that point, Bradley and IT will probably be very moveable contracts, if the young players are ready. They will be 29 and 30 years old, at their peak, and have years left on their deals. I think it would be stupid to bail on one of those guys to save money for just a couple of years.

[Roy H.]

But that's pretty much what I was saying, too - with Al, IT, and Hayward going to be taking up so much of our cap, there's no realistic/economical way to try and pull in another max-level player, too.

It depends upon how much Wyc wants to spend.

We could conceivably have a team of:

Horford / Zizic
KO / ?
Hayward / Crowder
Smart / Brown
IT / Fultz

We could then package KO and Smart to another team to add another max or near-max contract.  The only limitation this season is the hard cap (and the 1/15/17 no-trade restrictions) and in future seasons it's the luxury tax.