Author Topic: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up  (Read 3942 times)

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Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« on: November 22, 2016, 04:57:54 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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So Nikola Vucevic is the big man that Danny should be chasing and here's why:

I'm a little crazy, but I went and watched film on a couple of prospects that I believed would could help our weak frontcourt that were young, available, and on fairly good contracts.

Of the prospects that I scouted (Monroe and Faried), Nikola Vucevic stood out as the best fit for this team defensively, offensively, contract-wise, age-wise, and talent-wise.

When looking for a big that will fit well within Stevens offense they will need a couple of important qualities which includes good passing ability with vision, ability to stretch the floor, and ability to be effective in pick & roll and pick & pop situations.

To start off, Vucevic has continually exhibited solid vision out of the high post and on the block. This year per 36 he's averaging 3.6 APG on a solid 18.4% AST%. Comparatively, Horford averaged roughly a 15% AST% before topping out at 18.6% in his best passing year as a Hawk. Of course he's exploded now in Boston, 26%, but it just gives you an idea at how proficient Vucevic is as a passer.  In Brad's offense him and Horford would interchange between the high post and low post and use their combination of vision out of the post and skill on the block and in the faceup game to dominate other teams.

As a shooter in Steven's offense we've all seen how great a reliable mid-range jumpshot can be, Tyler Zeller. While not an especially great 3 point shooter, 33%, he has consistently show an ability to knock down the mid-range jumpshot. Despite having a down year by his standards, 37.5% from the midrange, in both years before Serge Ibaka came to Orlando Vucevic averaged 48% in 2016 and 46% in 2015 from the mid-range. In fact before the 2016-17 season he never averaged less than 40 % from 16 ft out to the 3 since his rookie year. In comparison, a notoriously good mid-range jumpshooter LaMarcus Aldridge has never even come close to touching Vucevic's 48% from the mid range and few of us would argue whether a player like LaMarcus Aldridge would be a great fit in our offense.

To get an idea of how good his mid-range jumpshot is check out this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZNi1xSb4QU&t=93s
In this video not only does he work a lot of his posessions out of the high post, where he would in our offense, but he exhibits a beautiful stroke and a face up ability that a player like Amir Johnson doesn't have. He also knocks down 5 mid-range jumpshots.

Per NBA.com, Nikola Vucevic may not be the most elite pick-n-roll man, but comparatively he has shown he can be dangerous out of these situations. So far this year he is averaging .88 PPP in Pick-n-Roll situations, pretty sure this includes pick-n-pop plays as well, at a 40% conversion rate. To give you perspective this is better than Marc Gasol (.70 PPP, 29.85%), LaMarcus Aldridge (.80 PPP, 38.9%), and Draymond Green (.77 PPP, 41.2 %). So not only will his skills in the floor spacing and passing department fit well within our system, but his ability to work in the pick-n-roll would also make him a dangerous cog in our offense.

Basketball of course isn't played on one side of the court and this is were we find one of the few warts that Vucevic's game has. Despite improving as a defender each and every year, he still wouldn't be considered anything more than a league average defender. What makes a good fit for our philosophy are his solid foot speed and length. After watching the tape it's clear that he isn't the greatest defender, but he shows glimpses. For example, he has solid quickness to contain ballhandlers off the pick-n-roll, he uses his mass when battling opposing bigs in the post to keep them from establishing good positioning, has solid enough length to bother shots around the rim, and does a great job of keeping big men off the boards and is a fantastic defensive rebounder.

Along with his fit in our system, his elite rebounding ability (14 RPG per 36), his youth at 26, and a contract that is signed throughout 2019 for roughly only 12 mil per year (what Amir is making right now) I believe that we should make some legitimate offers for the Magic big man because of the value that he offers on the trade market and for our frontcourt.
With his inability to fit well with Orlando's other frontcourt options and how much they already have invested in Biyombo and Ibaka , I think that Vucevic could be had for a relatively cheap price tag.

Now what do you guys have to say about this guy?
Put some solid trade scenarios on here for us.


Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 06:26:58 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I here by award you a DOCTOR degree in Celtic basketball.

Best I can do is a TP.  ;D

Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2016, 06:53:03 AM »

Offline NHCelticsFan

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I like him, and I think I may have started a thread about him once.  I think he would be a great fit in Steven's system.

Would be curious what his asking price is.

I would also love to hear Tommy try to pronounce his name!

Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2016, 07:42:55 AM »

Offline Granath

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TP for a well thought out post. I'd give you two if I could.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2016, 07:52:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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His shooting is poor.  41% from the Field,  25% from the three and 48% from the line.   This seems to be a down year for him as in the past he has been solid.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6478/nikola-vucevic

Guys who play 28 MPG do not come cheap.  But I agree he would help, and be an upgrade over Amir.

Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2016, 08:29:39 AM »

Offline chambers

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He's barely a starting caliber center on one of the worst teams in the NBA. He just hasn't shown enough improvement to become a reliable defensive center.
He's solid on the offensive end and has nice touch around the basket but to be a starting center in the NBA today (and be a good one) you need to be a legitimate defensive stopper if anything ala Andrew Bogut, DeAndre, Howard, Horford, Adams etc...

He's just not good enough on the defensive end and that's an enormous weakness in today's NBA.
Even with Ibaka beside him now, he's still just awful.

btw OP you wrote a very good post, I just personally hate Vucevic and would be soooo disappointed with his progression if I were a Magic fan. He's a good player, he's just not very good at anything. A Jeff Green kinda center.
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Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 09:03:47 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 09:37:18 AM »

Offline fantankerous

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Vucevic is a downgrade from Amir.  Vogel has already considered replacing him the starting lineup because he lacks any defensive intensity.  Additionally, he's having a terrible shooting year. 

Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 10:34:38 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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As far as I understand, he is a poor defender against the pick and roll, due to a lack of quickness and instincts.  He's not like Olynyk, who lacks athleticism but can position himself well.  Vucevic is a better defender than someone like Okafor, but he is likely to be no better than prime Al Jefferson on defense.

He might be an upgrade on offense and rebounding and a downgrade on defense if he replaced Zeller.
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Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 11:10:07 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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We don't need any more softies. No thanks.

Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 11:26:02 AM »

Offline JBcat

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I'd rather either put our big assets together for a star for example Cousins, or trade minimal assets for a big on the last year of his contract like Bogut or Randolph (with keeping max cap space for the summer).




Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 12:05:39 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 01:03:20 PM »

Offline mef730

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check out the third post in this thread

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=68097.msg1570509#msg1570509

Took me a second. I think you meant the second post.

But if you're ever a GM, and I have the third pick while you have the second, we can talk trade. ;)

Mike

Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 04:50:05 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I made a thread about this a couple weeks ago and this is what I said there:

I think he's gettable because Orlando has a big man logjam with Ibaka (just acquired in a trade), Biyombo (just lavished with a big contract), and Aaron Gordon (their youngest young stud who they are soon to realize is a PF not a SF) and on top of that they've looked really bad so far and might be willing to make a change.

The pros are that I think he'd fit into the Celtics offense beautifully. He's only 26. He's not a 3 point threat, but he's a good mid range shooter and would always be playing alongside a stretchy 4 (Horford, Olynyk) or a small ball 4 who can shoot (Crowder, Brown). On top of that, he's an intelligent passer who can replace some of the post playmaking the C's lose when Horford is on the bench (or has a concussion) and can bang with some of the bigger bodies Horford doesn't like to tangle with.

Of course, the biggest pro is that he averages 10 rebounds per game in his career and has taken down 12.8 per game over the first 4 of this season.

The cons are his defense. Someone else can correct me on this, but I think he's got slow feet and just not much of an instinct for that side of the ball.

If he could get got for a reasonable price he would fill a lot of holes for this team.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=87532.0

While it's true that he hasn't been good this season, it seems clear to me that it's based on the dysfunctional situation he's in. Orlando doesn't have good guards and a weird logjam in the middle. But even in this all around bad situation Vucevic is averaging double digit rebounds in just 27 mpg.

All that suggests to me the C's might be able to buy low on him. I'd want Danny to make a call.
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Re: Vucevic is Really the Big We Should Want Danny to Swipe Up
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2016, 05:24:05 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I made a thread about this a couple weeks ago and this is what I said there:

I think he's gettable because Orlando has a big man logjam with Ibaka (just acquired in a trade), Biyombo (just lavished with a big contract), and Aaron Gordon (their youngest young stud who they are soon to realize is a PF not a SF) and on top of that they've looked really bad so far and might be willing to make a change.

The pros are that I think he'd fit into the Celtics offense beautifully. He's only 26. He's not a 3 point threat, but he's a good mid range shooter and would always be playing alongside a stretchy 4 (Horford, Olynyk) or a small ball 4 who can shoot (Crowder, Brown). On top of that, he's an intelligent passer who can replace some of the post playmaking the C's lose when Horford is on the bench (or has a concussion) and can bang with some of the bigger bodies Horford doesn't like to tangle with.

Of course, the biggest pro is that he averages 10 rebounds per game in his career and has taken down 12.8 per game over the first 4 of this season.

The cons are his defense. Someone else can correct me on this, but I think he's got slow feet and just not much of an instinct for that side of the ball.

If he could get got for a reasonable price he would fill a lot of holes for this team.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=87532.0

While it's true that he hasn't been good this season, it seems clear to me that it's based on the dysfunctional situation he's in. Orlando doesn't have good guards and a weird logjam in the middle. But even in this all around bad situation Vucevic is averaging double digit rebounds in just 27 mpg.

All that suggests to me the C's might be able to buy low on him. I'd want Danny to make a call.
Danny Should call Denver. But I think Bogut on January 15 give them Zeller and some seconds.
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