Author Topic: What to do with such a guard centered daft?  (Read 15931 times)

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Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2016, 07:07:14 PM »

Offline Big333223

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).

no one can confirm that, especially considering that the 2017 draft hasn't happened yet.
Obviously no one can confirm that but it is hard to see Brown going in the top 10 of the 2017 draft.  He might have ended up the 5th or 6th SF selected.

That's honestly really debatable. This time last year, people were calling Labissiere the surefire #2 pick. He went 28th. Let's wait and see how the college season goes.
Anyone who saw Skal play early last season wouldn't have called him a surefire #2 pick.  He wasn't college ready let alone NBA ready.  The question was how much would he develop over the season and it turned out the answer was not much. 

It is obviously early but this season the hyped freshman, who aren't injured, are mostly showing why they are being hyped.  I'm quite impressed with what I've seen of this draft class so far.  I think Brown's poor shooting and high turnovers would have kept him out of the top 10.
I think he's saying that, preseason, Skal was ranked as a top prospect (I saw him going #2 in a few places) and then once the season got underway it became obvious that wasn't going to happen. But that's how fast things change.
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Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2016, 07:32:32 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Ok so Brown might not have made the top 10 huh?  Ok lets name the players that are better prospects than him based upon having seen the players play?

One thing I will agree with is that the Cal system would have hampered him jsut like it did last year however scouts arent just looking at their college play they are taking into consideration tournaments nationally and internationally.

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2016, 07:33:59 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).

no one can confirm that, especially considering that the 2017 draft hasn't happened yet.
Obviously no one can confirm that but it is hard to see Brown going in the top 10 of the 2017 draft.  He might have ended up the 5th or 6th SF selected.

That's honestly really debatable. This time last year, people were calling Labissiere the surefire #2 pick. He went 28th. Let's wait and see how the college season goes.
Anyone who saw Skal play early last season wouldn't have called him a surefire #2 pick.  He wasn't college ready let alone NBA ready. The question was how much would he develop over the season and it turned out the answer was not much. 

It is obviously early but this season the hyped freshman, who aren't injured, are mostly showing why they are being hyped.  I'm quite impressed with what I've seen of this draft class so far.  I think Brown's poor shooting and high turnovers would have kept him out of the top 10.

well, early last season, in his first 6 games, Skal averaged

14.7 ppg
4.7 rpg
2.3 bpg

He was VERY highly touted going into the college season, and while he didn't look elite to start the season, he was still very, very solid (minus the rebounds)
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2016, 07:39:05 PM »

Online celticsclay

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).

no one can confirm that, especially considering that the 2017 draft hasn't happened yet.
Obviously no one can confirm that but it is hard to see Brown going in the top 10 of the 2017 draft.  He might have ended up the 5th or 6th SF selected.

That's honestly really debatable. This time last year, people were calling Labissiere the surefire #2 pick. He went 28th. Let's wait and see how the college season goes.
Anyone who saw Skal play early last season wouldn't have called him a surefire #2 pick.  He wasn't college ready let alone NBA ready. The question was how much would he develop over the season and it turned out the answer was not much. 

It is obviously early but this season the hyped freshman, who aren't injured, are mostly showing why they are being hyped.  I'm quite impressed with what I've seen of this draft class so far.  I think Brown's poor shooting and high turnovers would have kept him out of the top 10.

well, early last season, in his first 6 games, Skal averaged

14.7 ppg
4.7 rpg
2.3 bpg

He was VERY highly touted going into the college season, and while he didn't look elite to start the season, he was still very, very solid (minus the rebounds)

Another good point. We are in such a rush to come up with the next big thing and downgrade the present. Sad really.

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2016, 07:55:29 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).

no one can confirm that, especially considering that the 2017 draft hasn't happened yet.
Obviously no one can confirm that but it is hard to see Brown going in the top 10 of the 2017 draft.  He might have ended up the 5th or 6th SF selected.

That's honestly really debatable. This time last year, people were calling Labissiere the surefire #2 pick. He went 28th. Let's wait and see how the college season goes.
Anyone who saw Skal play early last season wouldn't have called him a surefire #2 pick.  He wasn't college ready let alone NBA ready. The question was how much would he develop over the season and it turned out the answer was not much. 

It is obviously early but this season the hyped freshman, who aren't injured, are mostly showing why they are being hyped.  I'm quite impressed with what I've seen of this draft class so far.  I think Brown's poor shooting and high turnovers would have kept him out of the top 10.

well, early last season, in his first 6 games, Skal averaged

14.7 ppg
4.7 rpg
2.3 bpg

He was VERY highly touted going into the college season, and while he didn't look elite to start the season, he was still very, very solid (minus the rebounds)
He was rail thin and getting manhandled by college players.  He was talked about like he'd be a NBA stretch 4 but he wasn't shooting college 3s.  I was expecting to see a much better player considering the hype but I didn't see anything NBA ready about him. 

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2016, 09:51:58 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).   I casually skimmed a few draft articles recently that claimed there are as many as 5 guys on the same prospect level as Ben Simmons coming in 2017... and several others who would be better than all the guys taken 3-8 in 2016.

Ben simmons, the talented non-shooter who played on a team that didn't make the tourney and is going to a non winning team? i heard he was the next Lebron....

Hahaha you casually skimmed a couple articles, but came to the conclusion that Jaylen Brown could go no higher than 11th? I love it.

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2016, 09:56:18 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Trade Smart now.  Rozier can take his minutes.

You seem to be the one that is less optimistic about Smart than others on this blog. In your eyes, what would be a fair return for a guy that was picked #6 overall and has played 139 games?
Nobody respects Marcus Smart more than I do.   I don't think you could get near equal return for Thomas (since nobody is giving up an all-star for a 5'9 All-star).  I don't think you could get near equal return for Rozier (sample size too small... nobody is giving up anything tangible for him).   Smart's gotten enough minutes for teams to know what he's capable of.  He's also young enough that someone might gamble on his future.  It's hard to say what his return would be, though, because I don't think there's a huge market in this league for defensive role players at the PG/SG position.  It's such a guard-heavy league and all we keep reading about is how small ball/pace-and-space offenses favor guards who can penetrate and shoot.  In a way, Marcus Smart is more "obsolete" to the modern NBA game than people claim Okafor is.   Find a team that is struggling for quality guard play that would settle for one that sucks at offense.  It's hard to think of many trade partners that make sense.   Marcus Smart makes less sense to the modern NBA than Rajon Rondo... at least Rondo's distribution skills are undeniable.  It'd be a struggle to find a team that wants him.  My guess is it would be a team that already has elite-offense, elite shooting, and doesn't mind having an offensive liability purely impacting the game with his strong (but not quite All-Defense) defense and clutch plays.   Smart's likely the one who can be packaged with draft picks to get back some big man help.

So you wrote a bunch of words, many that shed a negative light on the Boston Celtics guards.

Oh, and your answer to my question was: I don't know.

I get it. The Michael Felger/Skip Bayless sports thing is popular these days. Create a buzz to stir it up. I actually respect it. Keeps it lively.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 10:14:20 PM by green_bballers13 »

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2016, 11:07:01 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Trade Smart now.  Rozier can take his minutes.

You seem to be the one that is less optimistic about Smart than others on this blog. In your eyes, what would be a fair return for a guy that was picked #6 overall and has played 139 games?
Nobody respects Marcus Smart more than I do.   I don't think you could get near equal return for Thomas (since nobody is giving up an all-star for a 5'9 All-star).  I don't think you could get near equal return for Rozier (sample size too small... nobody is giving up anything tangible for him).   Smart's gotten enough minutes for teams to know what he's capable of.  He's also young enough that someone might gamble on his future.  It's hard to say what his return would be, though, because I don't think there's a huge market in this league for defensive role players at the PG/SG position.  It's such a guard-heavy league and all we keep reading about is how small ball/pace-and-space offenses favor guards who can penetrate and shoot.  In a way, Marcus Smart is more "obsolete" to the modern NBA game than people claim Okafor is.   Find a team that is struggling for quality guard play that would settle for one that sucks at offense.  It's hard to think of many trade partners that make sense.   Marcus Smart makes less sense to the modern NBA than Rajon Rondo... at least Rondo's distribution skills are undeniable.  It'd be a struggle to find a team that wants him.  My guess is it would be a team that already has elite-offense, elite shooting, and doesn't mind having an offensive liability purely impacting the game with his strong (but not quite All-Defense) defense and clutch plays.   Smart's likely the one who can be packaged with draft picks to get back some big man help.

So you wrote a bunch of words, many that shed a negative light on the Boston Celtics guards.



Not negative at all.  I think all of them are making contributions.  But if we add a fourth one... one who might be better than all 3 of those PGs, that's kinda messy.  Only so many minutes.

All I'm saying is that I think of the three guys, Smart's the most likely to be moved. 

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2016, 11:07:54 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).   I casually skimmed a few draft articles recently that claimed there are as many as 5 guys on the same prospect level as Ben Simmons coming in 2017... and several others who would be better than all the guys taken 3-8 in 2016.

Ben simmons, the talented non-shooter who played on a team that didn't make the tourney and is going to a non winning team? i heard he was the next Lebron....

Hahaha you casually skimmed a couple articles, but came to the conclusion that Jaylen Brown could go no higher than 11th? I love it.
Well I also heard from someone I have a lot of respect for that Jaylen would have gone 11th in 2015 as well.  Brown was seen as a lesser prospect than Winslow.

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2016, 11:08:54 PM »

Offline alewilliam789

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).   I casually skimmed a few draft articles recently that claimed there are as many as 5 guys on the same prospect level as Ben Simmons coming in 2017... and several others who would be better than all the guys taken 3-8 in 2016.

Ben simmons, the talented non-shooter who played on a team that didn't make the tourney and is going to a non winning team? i heard he was the next Lebron....

Hahaha you casually skimmed a couple articles, but came to the conclusion that Jaylen Brown could go no higher than 11th? I love it.

Yeah definitely don't believe that. I think he at least goes top 6/7. I would put it in this order:

1. Markelle Fultz
2. Josh Jackson
3. Jaysom Tatum
4. Harry Giles (if knees are healthy could be 1)
5. Dennis Smith Jr.
6. Jaylen Brown

Jaylen Brown's atheticism, potential on defense, and scoring ability keep him relatively high for me. Don't see anybody else with that combo after 5.

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2016, 11:10:25 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).   I casually skimmed a few draft articles recently that claimed there are as many as 5 guys on the same prospect level as Ben Simmons coming in 2017... and several others who would be better than all the guys taken 3-8 in 2016.

Ben simmons, the talented non-shooter who played on a team that didn't make the tourney and is going to a non winning team? i heard he was the next Lebron....

Hahaha you casually skimmed a couple articles, but came to the conclusion that Jaylen Brown could go no higher than 11th? I love it.

Yeah definitely don't believe that. I think he at least goes top 6/7. I would put it in this order:

1. Markelle Fultz
2. Josh Jackson
3. Jaysom Tatum
4. Harry Giles (if knees are healthy could be 1)
5. Dennis Smith Jr.
6. Jaylen Brown

Jaylen Brown's atheticism, potential on defense, and scoring ability keep him relatively high for me. Don't see anybody else with that combo after 5.
Is there a massive fall-off after Dennis Smith?   We talking Tier 1 to Tier 4 or Tier 2 to Tier 4?

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2016, 11:19:23 PM »

Offline alewilliam789

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).   I casually skimmed a few draft articles recently that claimed there are as many as 5 guys on the same prospect level as Ben Simmons coming in 2017... and several others who would be better than all the guys taken 3-8 in 2016.

Ben simmons, the talented non-shooter who played on a team that didn't make the tourney and is going to a non winning team? i heard he was the next Lebron....

Hahaha you casually skimmed a couple articles, but came to the conclusion that Jaylen Brown could go no higher than 11th? I love it.

Yeah definitely don't believe that. I think he at least goes top 6/7. I would put it in this order:

1. Markelle Fultz
2. Josh Jackson
3. Jaysom Tatum
4. Harry Giles (if knees are healthy could be 1)
5. Dennis Smith Jr.
6. Jaylen Brown

Jaylen Brown's atheticism, potential on defense, and scoring ability keep him relatively high for me. Don't see anybody else with that combo after 5.
Is there a massive fall-off after Dennis Smith?   We talking Tier 1 to Tier 4 or Tier 2 to Tier 4?

Yeah I would say after Dennis Smith Jr. the best prospects would be De'Aaron Fox, Lonzo Ball, and Ivan Rabb. Of those maybe Lonzo Ball could rival Brown, but still think Brown has superior athleticism and shooting potential. That Ball jumpshot is going to be hard to fix because of how horrible his form is.

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2016, 11:43:11 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).   I casually skimmed a few draft articles recently that claimed there are as many as 5 guys on the same prospect level as Ben Simmons coming in 2017... and several others who would be better than all the guys taken 3-8 in 2016.

Ben simmons, the talented non-shooter who played on a team that didn't make the tourney and is going to a non winning team? i heard he was the next Lebron....

Hahaha you casually skimmed a couple articles, but came to the conclusion that Jaylen Brown could go no higher than 11th? I love it.

Yeah definitely don't believe that. I think he at least goes top 6/7. I would put it in this order:

1. Markelle Fultz
2. Josh Jackson
3. Jaysom Tatum
4. Harry Giles (if knees are healthy could be 1)
5. Dennis Smith Jr.
6. Jaylen Brown

Jaylen Brown's atheticism, potential on defense, and scoring ability keep him relatively high for me. Don't see anybody else with that combo after 5.
Is there a massive fall-off after Dennis Smith?   We talking Tier 1 to Tier 4 or Tier 2 to Tier 4?

Yeah I would say after Dennis Smith Jr. the best prospects would be De'Aaron Fox, Lonzo Ball, and Ivan Rabb. Of those maybe Lonzo Ball could rival Brown, but still think Brown has superior athleticism and shooting potential. That Ball jumpshot is going to be hard to fix because of how horrible his form is.
what about Frank Ntilikina

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2016, 11:49:26 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).   I casually skimmed a few draft articles recently that claimed there are as many as 5 guys on the same prospect level as Ben Simmons coming in 2017... and several others who would be better than all the guys taken 3-8 in 2016.

Ben simmons, the talented non-shooter who played on a team that didn't make the tourney and is going to a non winning team? i heard he was the next Lebron....

Hahaha you casually skimmed a couple articles, but came to the conclusion that Jaylen Brown could go no higher than 11th? I love it.

Yeah definitely don't believe that. I think he at least goes top 6/7. I would put it in this order:

1. Markelle Fultz
2. Josh Jackson
3. Jaysom Tatum
4. Harry Giles (if knees are healthy could be 1)
5. Dennis Smith Jr.
6. Jaylen Brown

Jaylen Brown's atheticism, potential on defense, and scoring ability keep him relatively high for me. Don't see anybody else with that combo after 5.
Is there a massive fall-off after Dennis Smith?   We talking Tier 1 to Tier 4 or Tier 2 to Tier 4?

LOL

Re: What to do with such a guard centered daft?
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2016, 11:54:54 PM »

Offline alewilliam789

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can someone confirm that Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 11th in the 2017 draft?  I've read that it's very strong up top... unlike the 2016 draft that was apparently terrible other than Ben Simmons (and the Brandon Ingram project).   I casually skimmed a few draft articles recently that claimed there are as many as 5 guys on the same prospect level as Ben Simmons coming in 2017... and several others who would be better than all the guys taken 3-8 in 2016.

Ben simmons, the talented non-shooter who played on a team that didn't make the tourney and is going to a non winning team? i heard he was the next Lebron....

Hahaha you casually skimmed a couple articles, but came to the conclusion that Jaylen Brown could go no higher than 11th? I love it.

Yeah definitely don't believe that. I think he at least goes top 6/7. I would put it in this order:

1. Markelle Fultz
2. Josh Jackson
3. Jaysom Tatum
4. Harry Giles (if knees are healthy could be 1)
5. Dennis Smith Jr.
6. Jaylen Brown

Jaylen Brown's atheticism, potential on defense, and scoring ability keep him relatively high for me. Don't see anybody else with that combo after 5.
Is there a massive fall-off after Dennis Smith?   We talking Tier 1 to Tier 4 or Tier 2 to Tier 4?

Yeah I would say after Dennis Smith Jr. the best prospects would be De'Aaron Fox, Lonzo Ball, and Ivan Rabb. Of those maybe Lonzo Ball could rival Brown, but still think Brown has superior athleticism and shooting potential. That Ball jumpshot is going to be hard to fix because of how horrible his form is.
what about Frank Ntilikina
I've seen him play a little bit, but when I watch him play I see so much Dante Exum. Would you rather have Exum or Brown? Still think Brown's ceiling is higher.  Of course ceiling means nothing if you can't achieve it, but when evaluating prospects often the higher ceiling player is drafted above. If Brown puts together that jumpshot together he could be just as good or better than Jimmy Butler. Now I will admit that Ntilikina is sorta an unknown and with more tape I'd be more opened minded to moving him up, but for now haven't seen enough to want him more than Brown.