Time to Buy low on Greg Monroe?

[csfansince60s]

I've been on The Moose Train for a long time.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the organization (especially Stevens, and that's just a hunch) thinks much of him. Heck, we didn't even offer him a meet when he was a FA.

The guy is still young (26) but with 6 years experience. He's durable, runs the floor real well (he's very good north to south, just not so much laterally, which is why he could have problems with switches in our D) and will give us 16/10 minimum. He's a good passer for his position, so with the right coaching (Stevens), I can see him being a big enough threat inside so opponents will have to respect that and he can then kick it out for 3s.

I don't see him exercising his option here if we get him, unless he gets injured (unlikely, given his history) or really sucks (don't see that happening if Stevens is willing to coach him).

This is the guy who took his QO. How many guys, knowing the $$$ he was going to command, would do that? how many guys do you know of that have taken their QOs? And he had his best year statistically that year, so he's shown that he's more than willing to play for his contract and is confident enough in himself to take real small $$$ for that year.

Again, I think that this is all moot, as I don't think that Stevens likes him.

Plus he played out of position in a really suck situation, failed experiment with JSmoove that didn't work out and he was a horrible match with Drummond, unlike how he will match with KO and Horford (he'd compliment them well).

All Aboard!!!!...The Moose Train

[The Oracle]

You give someone a complete statistical break down of how much Monroe would be as an improvement over pretty much every other big man on the roster and half you guys still wouldn't have him. Don't understand why, can you please explain why?

Statistical breakdowns don't matter here. This blog only respects regurgitated over-exaggerated rhetoric! Ask soft/bad defender 4 lyfe Kelly Olynyk. He knows what I'm talking about.

True, but Olynyk has drastically improved defensively since being drafted. He's become good enough that I don't see him making many visible mistakes besides being a T-Rex with his short arms.

It just boggles my mind that people are willing to pass up on a highly skilled big man like Monroe because of drastic bias and like you said played out rhetoric. If you are willing to settle with Amir Johnson, I'm not sure you're interested with what's best for team. He's a gritty player, but in the big picture he's expendable.

You say oh Monroe contracts too big and he's a one year rental? Same with Amir Johnson?
He's making 12 mil as an expiring contract to Monroe's 17. We are paying 5 mil more for a drastically better player, with essentially the same contract (an expiring deal), who is only 26!!!!!!! At least we give ourselves potential to get deeper in the playoffs with more talent. We make ourselves a more versatile/dangerous team with Monroe in any of our lineups. I have faith that Stevens can really show us how good Monroe can be and if we can get for nothing we better jump on that opportunity.

Monroe has a player option for next year that would eliminate about 18 million in cap space for this off season if he opts in.  His value has dropped greatly and very likely will end up opting in. 

As for your comment earlier about the C's not having a defense that limits their ability to rebound defensively, they most certainly do!!  You cannot aggressively defend the perimeter with your big men and then expect them to then return to great rebounding position, track the ball and box out all at the same time.  A defense such as the C's are deploying requires much more from your guards and SF to box out and rebound.  When the C's have been dominated on the boards this year it has been largely because of other teams guards and wings that are attacking the offensive glass, Porter, Wade, Butler etc., the C's big men cannot block them out also.

[alewilliam789]

You give someone a complete statistical break down of how much Monroe would be as an improvement over pretty much every other big man on the roster and half you guys still wouldn't have him. Don't understand why, can you please explain why?

Statistical breakdowns don't matter here. This blog only respects regurgitated over-exaggerated rhetoric! Ask soft/bad defender 4 lyfe Kelly Olynyk. He knows what I'm talking about.

True, but Olynyk has drastically improved defensively since being drafted. He's become good enough that I don't see him making many visible mistakes besides being a T-Rex with his short arms.

It just boggles my mind that people are willing to pass up on a highly skilled big man like Monroe because of drastic bias and like you said played out rhetoric. If you are willing to settle with Amir Johnson, I'm not sure you're interested with what's best for team. He's a gritty player, but in the big picture he's expendable.

You say oh Monroe contracts too big and he's a one year rental? Same with Amir Johnson?
He's making 12 mil as an expiring contract to Monroe's 17. We are paying 5 mil more for a drastically better player, with essentially the same contract (an expiring deal), who is only 26!!!!!!! At least we give ourselves potential to get deeper in the playoffs with more talent. We make ourselves a more versatile/dangerous team with Monroe in any of our lineups. I have faith that Stevens can really show us how good Monroe can be and if we can get for nothing we better jump on that opportunity.

Monroe has a player option for next year that would eliminate about 18 million in cap space for this off season if he opts in.  His value has dropped greatly and very likely will end up opting in. 

As for your comment earlier about the C's not having a defense that limits their ability to rebound defensively, they most certainly do!!  You cannot aggressively defend the perimeter with your big men and then expect them to then return to great rebounding position, track the ball and box out all at the same time.  A defense such as the C's are deploying requires much more from your guards and SF to box out and rebound.  When the C's have been dominated on the boards this year it has been largely because of other teams guards and wings that are attacking the offensive glass, Porter, Wade, Butler etc., the C's big men cannot block them out also.

Is that not the case with the entire league? If you don't switch on players like Steph Curry, Lebron, or any of the elites you're either giving up a 3 or a dunk. Bigs against guards in pick and roll situations is so routine because they are matchups that offenses like. Despite that we still end up with big men who still average double digit rebounds routinely because it is based off the bigs ability to rebound the ball. Sullinger played in the same system and averaged a double double when he was on the floor too because he was a superior rebounding talent. Based off statistics, Monroe is a superior rebounding talent to the bigs that we have, even including Horford, so therefore I believe with the addition of Monroe we will become a better rebounding team.


If he does opt in we end up landing a extremely talented young big on a reasonable contract given the market. The best FAs in next year's class that will most likely be even remotely available are Hayward, maybe Griffin, Nerlens Noel, Millsap, Gallinari, Rose. Outside of Griffin and Hayward I would give none of those players a max. Both Hayward and Griffin are on player options as well so no given that they opt out and are the only players that I believe would get us even remotely close to getting over the hump. Pitting our improvement of the team to a contender solely on landing a top tier FA when we haven't proven we can consistently attract FA is irresponsible. Will Monroe make us a contender? AboEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ely not, but he will be a nice piece for us to either keep or shuffle around. As for the rest of the FA they are going to demand unreasonable max contracts that they aren't worth and wouldn't get us over the hump anyways. Might as well add an extremely young and talented big and see what happens from there.

[walker834]

Monroe is a good player but not that high on him myself.  Even celticsblog has the click bait on their front page.  Warming up for silly season i guess.  We could use another big mean and Ainge would probably prefer to give up a late first but I'm hoping for something more creative or nothing at all.

[fairweatherfan]

After working so diligently to secure cap space freedom for last year and the foreseeable future, I am saying that I 100% am convinced Danny Ainge won't put that cap space in jeopardy unless its to sign or trade for a possible top 10 or so players in the league. Trading for Monroe would do that and Monroe is probably not even a top 60 player in the league. Monroe is not coming to Boston.

Yeah, IF we were assured Monroe would opt out it's possible we'd take a shot. I see no way we feel assured of that with his stock so low.

[csfansince60s]

All I know  is that if Moose were patrolling the paint, our buddy, Zaza would not have had 4 ORBs, 12 overall and 8 in one quarter.

Also, offensively, we would've had a strong inside threat that would've kept their D honest.

Not saying that Moose's presence would've won the game for us, but we would've been a helluva lot more competitive.

[alewilliam789]

All I know  is that if Moose were patrolling the paint, our buddy, Zaza would not have had 4 ORBs, 12 overall and 8 in one quarter.

Also, offensively, we would've had a strong inside threat that would've kept their D honest.

Not saying that Moose's presence would've won the game for us, but we would've been a helluva lot more competitive.

Exactly!! Makes a more versatile and dangerous team.

[Vermont Green]

I understand some trepidation on Monroe, I have plenty myself.  One of the arguments is that Monroe put up good stats on a bad Detroit team.  My counter to that is that he shot a high percentage.  Usually high scoring on a bad team also includes low efficiency.  Monroe was very efficient in terms of shooting percentage.  That usually translates well for players going to better teams.

The rebounding concern that he somehow sluffs off on defense so he can get rebounds is tough to assess.  I don't remember seeing that but I did not see him play enough to have dissected that point.  Seems like something that could be coached.  I think Monroe wants to win.  I don't see him as a stats grabber.

The final argument seems to be the commitment of cap space.  I just don't know.  I am just not all that confident that we will score that big time FA.  There is always that chance but we could also go on for years waiting for that and it never happens.

I think if we could get Monroe, and we can't win with Horford, Monroe, Crowder, Bradley, Thomas, then trade Horford and Monroe, let Thomas walk, and then we have all the cap space you want and we can start a second round of rebuild around Brown, Smart, and whoever else we draft in the next couple of years.

[NHCelticsFan]

Wish I could be a fly on the wall to hear the negotiation.  I can't image the price for Monroe would be high right now.  Seems like the definition of a buy low player.

If the C's did make the trade and Monroe opted in to his final year, does anyone know what we would have left for cap space?

Another thought....if Monroe reestablished his value in Boston he could be an excellent trade piece to match a larger salary.

[Moranis]

Wish I could be a fly on the wall to hear the negotiation.  I can't image the price for Monroe would be high right now.  Seems like the definition of a buy low player.

If the C's did make the trade and Monroe opted in to his final year, does anyone know what we would have left for cap space?

Another thought....if Monroe reestablished his value in Boston he could be an excellent trade piece to match a larger salary.

Not that much, but I don't think it would stop Boston from acquiring a free agent, it would just have to trade someone to do it, which I think might happen anyway.  I mean if Hayward wanted to come here, would Boston really end up keeping Hayward, Crowder, Bradley, Smart, and Brown for the 2/3 position.  That is just too many players, so Bradley or Crowder could be traded in a sign and trade for Hayward (or someone else for future assets to create cap room) which should get Boston awful close to the room required if KO's cap hold wasn't in play (or maybe KO is also sign and traded). 

Hayward and Griffin really are the only somewhat viable options, and I fully expect both to re-sign with their current teams. 

That said I don't think Monroe would opt in unless Boston just doesn't play him, which wouldn't make sense.  I would expect Monroe to immediately be inserted as the starting center and play in the 30 minute range.  If that happens, I can't see how he wouldn't opt out to get a bigger/longer pay day.  Boston could then decide if it wants to keep him long term or go a different direction.

[Vermont Green]

They are playing him more the last 3 games and they are 2-1 in those games.  Last night he played well (based on Box Score) in a win against Cleveland.

I am not sure MIL knows what they are doing.

[apc]

They are playing him more the last 3 games and they are 2-1 in those games.  Last night he played well (based on Box Score) in a win against Cleveland.

I am not sure MIL knows what they are doing.

Yes, i am still not sure about Kid as a couch.
looked good first season with Bucks, not so much on the 2nd.

[trickybilly]

We have Avery for rebounding.. Surplus to requirements

[Celtic Fan Forever]

We have Avery for rebounding.. Surplus to requirements

When our best rebounder is 6'2, that's a huge issue. We're a bottom 10 team in rebounding, none of our bigs (Horford, Amir, Jonas, KO, Zeller) are plus rebounders.

I think getting Monroe for a combination of Amir, Young/JJ, 2nd rounders would be an absolute steal. Is Monroe a great defender or floor spacer? No. But he solves a major weakness on this team. He's a very good rebounder and can bang down low and score inside, which we desperately need. Not to mention, he's a solid passer and free throw shooter for a big man, and would fit Brad's style offensively. Sign me up.

[vjcsmoke]

Monroe can rebound but he doesn't shoot 3's.  And he's poor defensively  So how does adding him help the Celtics?

stats:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01.html

0% 3p FG percentage his ENTIRE career.

There's a reason he can't get on the floor.

Greg Monroe poorly impacting Bucks defense:
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/240387/Figuring-Out-What-Happened-To-The-Bucks-Defense