Am I the only one p---ed about the Rozier pick still?

[nickagneta]

I'm not mad about it.  Rozier looks good and there was widely believed to be a drop-off after pick #10.   But, I will say that prior to the 2015 draft I had created a thread here asking if anyone would hypothetically trade the potentially crappy #16 pick for a prospect gamble like Nik Stauskas.  I wasn't actually in support of doing it... was just curious from a thought experiment standpoint.   The idea was that as bad as Stauskas had been as a rookie, he still might have had more potential than the guy we would end up with at #16.  Philly ended up grabbing Stauskas for far less than a #16 pick, but for fun, I keep checking up on him in comparison with the guy we took 16th (Rozier).


2015:

Rozier:  1.8 points, 1.6 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 0.2 steals 27%/22%/80% shooting
Stauskas: 8.5 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.6 steals, 39%/33%/77% shooting.


2016 (so far):

Rozier: 6.5 points, 3.1 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 39%/40%/64%
Stauskas:  8.3 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 0.4 steals, 48%/36%/82%

Completely meaningless hypothetical, but fun to keep an eye on.

I see progress in Rozier's game. Nik Staukas has basically plateaued.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I'm still kinda mad the Celts made the playoffs that year and missed out on Winslow / Turner / Booker.

I liked Portis, Dekker, Anderson, and RHJ more than Rozier. So far none of them looks better than a backup.  Neither does Terry.

TP....this exactly.

A Pyrrhic victory, at best, making those playoffs.

Wyc had to to have his two measly playoff games in Boston. Wyc and CBS outvoted Danny that year.....very shortsighted.

And forget all that crap about "playoff experience" and all the other rationalizations, like"we wouldn't have had Thomas".  He could've been sat as could've Sully and Smart as they all had injuries.

If you took a poll now and asked people to choose between either having Winslow/Turner or that sweep by the Cavs, I know how I'd vote.

That didn't happen in a void. If we didn't make those playoffs, would CBS still be regarded as one of the best coaches in the league? Would Horford have come here? Would our guys have gained the confidence they have gained? Would any of those others guys have been as good in our system (Winslow has been awful this year)? Would Durant have even considered us? Would our guys have learned how play winning basketball?

It's easy to look back on something and wish it had gone different, but it would have had a huge butterfly effect on the rest of events.

[Moranis]

I'm still kinda mad the Celts made the playoffs that year and missed out on Winslow / Turner / Booker.

I liked Portis, Dekker, Anderson, and RHJ more than Rozier. So far none of them looks better than a backup.  Neither does Terry.

RHJ looks like he could be a pretty good player in the league and certainly starter potential.  I mean he got hurt 29 games into last year so he didn't get a full rookie season and is dealing with an injury, but his defense is still top notch.  Obviously needs to improve his shooting, but I certainly see him as a Smart type player.

[Cman]

I'm still kinda mad the Celts made the playoffs that year and missed out on Winslow / Turner / Booker.

I liked Portis, Dekker, Anderson, and RHJ more than Rozier. So far none of them looks better than a backup.  Neither does Terry.

TP....this exactly.

A Pyrrhic victory, at best, making those playoffs.

Wyc had to to have his two measly playoff games in Boston. Wyc and CBS outvoted Danny that year.....very shortsighted.

And forget all that crap about "playoff experience" and all the other rationalizations, like"we wouldn't have had Thomas".  He could've been sat as could've Sully and Smart as they all had injuries.

If you took a poll now and asked people to choose between either having Winslow/Turner or that sweep by the Cavs, I know how I'd vote.

You are assuming Winslow/Turner would have been available.

What if Cs had ended up picking later and those guys were off the board, leaving .... Trey Lyle?
Or maybe the Cs end up a bit higher and Danny falls in love with Frank Kandinsky and selects him?
Or maybe Danny's packages the pick along with a Nets pick to select WCS?

We know what did happen, but we can only speculate at the counter factual. You've selected one of the best possible counterfactuals.

[BitterJim]

I'm still kinda mad the Celts made the playoffs that year and missed out on Winslow / Turner / Booker.

I liked Portis, Dekker, Anderson, and RHJ more than Rozier. So far none of them looks better than a backup.  Neither does Terry.

TP....this exactly.

A Pyrrhic victory, at best, making those playoffs.

Wyc had to to have his two measly playoff games in Boston. Wyc and CBS outvoted Danny that year.....very shortsighted.

And forget all that crap about "playoff experience" and all the other rationalizations, like"we wouldn't have had Thomas".  He could've been sat as could've Sully and Smart as they all had injuries.

If you took a poll now and asked people to choose between either having Winslow/Turner or that sweep by the Cavs, I know how I'd vote.

So they shouldn't have trade for Thomas?

No, we should have trade for him and then made him sit out the season after his injury, since IT would totally have been okay with that.  Sully and especially Smart would have agreed to it, too, obviously 

People like to way over-simplify that whole season.  It wasn't just a decision between getting a higher pick or getting swept by the Cavs.  IT's comfort level with Brad and the rest of the team (and vise verse) would have been impacted, Crowder wouldn't have improved as much, Smart not playing would have impacted his development, and forcing IT to sit would have been a poor introduction to Boston (and IT's love of Boston was an important factor in Horford signing with us).  All of those things and the fact that the Celtics were a young playoff team helped lead to Amir signing with us, which snowballed with those factors into us being an even better playoff team this year, which further snowballed into us signing Horford this offseason and nearly getting Durant.  Sitting players to miss the playoffs could have made us miss out on much more than just playoff experience

Was it worth it to make the playoffs and have the 16th pick over missing the playoffs and getting the 11th pick? I don't know, but there's a lot more to consider than just whether or not we gained playoff experience against the Cavs

[celticsclay]

I'm still kinda mad the Celts made the playoffs that year and missed out on Winslow / Turner / Booker.

I liked Portis, Dekker, Anderson, and RHJ more than Rozier. So far none of them looks better than a backup.  Neither does Terry.

TP....this exactly.

A Pyrrhic victory, at best, making those playoffs.

Wyc had to to have his two measly playoff games in Boston. Wyc and CBS outvoted Danny that year.....very shortsighted.

And forget all that crap about "playoff experience" and all the other rationalizations, like"we wouldn't have had Thomas".  He could've been sat as could've Sully and Smart as they all had injuries.

If you took a poll now and asked people to choose between either having Winslow/Turner or that sweep by the Cavs, I know how I'd vote.

So they shouldn't have trade for Thomas?

No, we should have trade for him and then made him sit out the season after his injury, since IT would totally have been okay with that.  Sully and especially Smart would have agreed to it, too, obviously 

People like to way over-simplify that whole season.  It wasn't just a decision between getting a higher pick or getting swept by the Cavs.  IT's comfort level with Brad and the rest of the team (and vise verse) would have been impacted, Crowder wouldn't have improved as much, Smart not playing would have impacted his development, and forcing IT to sit would have been a poor introduction to Boston (and IT's love of Boston was an important factor in Horford signing with us).  All of those things and the fact that the Celtics were a young playoff team helped lead to Amir signing with us, which snowballed with those factors into us being an even better playoff team this year, which further snowballed into us signing Horford this offseason and nearly getting Durant.  Sitting players to miss the playoffs could have made us miss out on much more than just playoff experience

Was it worth it to make the playoffs and have the 16th pick over missing the playoffs and getting the 11th pick? I don't know, but there's a lot more to consider than just whether or not we gained playoff experience against the Cavs

I agree with all of this. These things don't exist in a vaccuum. Wasn't there a story about crowder getting real upset with the idea of us tanking once he arrived? Also let's throw Myles turner out because it is pretty clear Danny wanted to draft Winslow if he somehow ended up in the lottery. So we are talking about probably not having IT, probably not having Horford and possibly less development from crowder and smart and no longer having rozier, all for Winslow? Seems kind of a crazy thing to be upset about.

[celticsclay]

I'm not mad about it.  Rozier looks good and there was widely believed to be a drop-off after pick #10.   But, I will say that prior to the 2015 draft I had created a thread here asking if anyone would hypothetically trade the potentially crappy #16 pick for a prospect gamble like Nik Stauskas.  I wasn't actually in support of doing it... was just curious from a thought experiment standpoint.   The idea was that as bad as Stauskas had been as a rookie, he still might have had more potential than the guy we would end up with at #16.  Philly ended up grabbing Stauskas for far less than a #16 pick, but for fun, I keep checking up on him in comparison with the guy we took 16th (Rozier).


2015:

Rozier:  1.8 points, 1.6 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 0.2 steals 27%/22%/80% shooting
Stauskas: 8.5 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.6 steals, 39%/33%/77% shooting.


2016 (so far):

Rozier: 6.5 points, 3.1 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 39%/40%/64%
Stauskas:  8.3 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 0.4 steals, 48%/36%/82%

Completely meaningless hypothetical, but fun to keep an eye on.

Confused why you would post this. I know you know that Stauskas barely made the team and was on the bubble until the final week of the preseason just like James young and RJ hunter. Obviously we also have a much more talented roster than Philly at the end of our bench. They have ultimately decided to keep him around and hope his shooting returns. However he is not viewed as a complete player by anyone. You throw in the fact that that Stauskas has been called out and benched for his defense multiple times by brown and it really isn't a contest. If Danny got drunk and offered rozier for stauskas Brett brown would cancel practice and drive him to the airport. I know it is small sample size but kind of hilarious rozier is shooting better from 3 than Stauskas. You had ONE JOB STAUSKAS

[green_bballers13]

I'm not mad about it.  Rozier looks good and there was widely believed to be a drop-off after pick #10.   But, I will say that prior to the 2015 draft I had created a thread here asking if anyone would hypothetically trade the potentially crappy #16 pick for a prospect gamble like Nik Stauskas.  I wasn't actually in support of doing it... was just curious from a thought experiment standpoint.   The idea was that as bad as Stauskas had been as a rookie, he still might have had more potential than the guy we would end up with at #16.  Philly ended up grabbing Stauskas for far less than a #16 pick, but for fun, I keep checking up on him in comparison with the guy we took 16th (Rozier).


2015:

Rozier:  1.8 points, 1.6 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 0.2 steals 27%/22%/80% shooting
Stauskas: 8.5 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.6 steals, 39%/33%/77% shooting.


2016 (so far):

Rozier: 6.5 points, 3.1 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 0.7 steals, 39%/40%/64%
Stauskas:  8.3 points, 2.5 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 0.4 steals, 48%/36%/82%

Completely meaningless hypothetical, but fun to keep an eye on.

I understand that Stauskas plays for the 76ers. Why the comparison? He is a completely different player than Rozier. Why not compare him to Joel Embiid, who I heard just made the Hall of Fame after winning 1 game out of 10.

[alewilliam789]

We could have taken either Portis or Jerian Grant and would have had great long term prospects. Grant given us a great backup and a playmaker for the second unit. Portis would have been undoubtedly starting and manning the paint for us with Horford. It's draft picks like this that cause our bench to be anemic and us fans to wonder about where all these draft picks went. Really worried about the direction of this Celtics team right now.

Yes, yes you're the only one. You had more on your side when you were ticked about the Bradley pick as well. Rozier is further along than Bradley was in development, a couple years into the league.

Both are still improving their games & developing.

You are right. Let me restate this. I'm mad because of Rozier's fit with the team and with the bench. He hasn't shown he can run the 2nd unit, he hasn't shown he can consistently create his own offense like he did at Lousiville, and he seems a little shell shocked. I just need to see more. Over the years we have consistently struggle in two facets. Playmaking and rebounding. That hasn't changed and as fans I just don't know who else to be mad at besides Ainge and his conservative picking up until 2016. By the way I love the Brown pick. Perfect combination of potential and relatively safe floor. We just never filled in the holes of the players we lost in FA (Sullinger and Evan Turner).

Are these departures foreseeable? I think yes based off the knowledge that the market for FA would explode and players would demand huge contracts that they weren't worth. We already struggled with rebounding and playmaking anyways because IT and Turner were consistently ended up holding the bag in situations where we needed to score or a play made. 

So the decisions to choose players that replicated each others play style (Rozier like Smart and Bradley) and to ignore our blatant needs have negatively shown up in this 2017 team and could cause us to regress because of it.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

I am upset we passed up Festus Ezeli to take a flier on Fab Melo.

[alley oop]

We could of had Mason Plumlee. He's never injured too. 

[liam]

I'm still kinda mad the Celts made the playoffs that year and missed out on Winslow / Turner / Booker.

I liked Portis, Dekker, Anderson, and RHJ more than Rozier. So far none of them looks better than a backup.  Neither does Terry.

RHJ looks like he could be a pretty good player in the league and certainly starter potential.  I mean he got hurt 29 games into last year so he didn't get a full rookie season and is dealing with an injury, but his defense is still top notch.  Obviously needs to improve his shooting, but I certainly see him as a Smart type player.

RJH's defense is top notch? I would him below average at best.

[saltlover]

I am upset we passed up Festus Ezeli to take a flier on Fab Melo.

I know!  I mean, we'd missed out on two half-seasons of passable backup play.  We're still feeling the loss.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I'm still kinda mad the Celts made the playoffs that year and missed out on Winslow / Turner / Booker.

I liked Portis, Dekker, Anderson, and RHJ more than Rozier. So far none of them looks better than a backup.  Neither does Terry.

RHJ looks like he could be a pretty good player in the league and certainly starter potential.  I mean he got hurt 29 games into last year so he didn't get a full rookie season and is dealing with an injury, but his defense is still top notch.  Obviously needs to improve his shooting, but I certainly see him as a Smart type player.

RJH's defense is top notch? I would him below average at best.

RHJ was 5th in DRPM his rookie season and looks the part. Am we missing something?

Portis has shown flashes and would have fit a need with our anemic frontcourt. He seems has a skill-set for the modern NBA and high motor too, just needs to work on consistency and off-ball defensive awareness IMO.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I am upset we passed up Festus Ezeli to take a flier on Fab Melo.

I know!  I mean, we'd missed out on two half-seasons of passable backup play.  We're still feeling the loss.

Fab did provide some comedic relief, though (...at his own expense).