Isaiah Thomas?

[Fireworks_Boom!]

The trade could be tweaked to have Noel come to Boston if you believe he is a longer term solution at Center.

[Fireworks_Boom!]

Remove Crowder from above scenario and supplement Jerebko into the OKC deal.

Then turn Bradley/Crowder and the remaining Brooklyn pick for Klay Thompson.

Russell Westbrook
Jaylen Brown
Klay Thompson
Al Horford
Nerlens Noel

[GRADYCOLNON]

Stop these threads.

First off, why do we want to trade our best players? Do you actually wanna be worse than we already are?

Second, he will not (repeat: WILL NOT) fetch you much value in a trade. Most teams in the NBA already have their franchise point guard, and don't need Isaiah. He's not gonna get you much in a trade. This leads me to my second point. If no one will give up much for him, what makes you think he will successfully receive a max contract after his current contract is up? Those same teams that won't trade for him are not gonna sign him either, especially at the amount that he wants. Why then, should we worry about him pouting and wanting a max contract? No other team will give him one, for the same reasons that we're scared of giving him one.

Therefore, I think it's very obvious that Isaiah will sign a team friendly deal in the summer of 2018 to stay with the Celtics, who have essentially been his home and the only team that actually took him seriously and let him do what he wanted. That stuff matters to Isaiah too. He's not just chasing the money (even though we heard the Brinks trucks comment and all).

To conclude, he won't get you good return in a trade, since teams are wary of his height and because teams already have their franchise point guards already. Therefore, it's unlikely that they'll give him a max contract either, for those same reasons. As such, it makes sense that he will return to the Celtics on a moderately priced deal. Case closed.

Bro seriously?

Thomas has become a top 7 point guard that despite his small stature has become one of the most explosive offensive players in the league.  He nearly leads the league in drives, score over 25 and drops 7 assist a game.  Sure he won't get you as much as the next superstar but that is really underselling what he can get in a trade. Add a pick and he could get anyone on the market.

Plus he is definitely getting the Max. He's better than 23 starting point guards and didn't you hear, everyone gets MAX deals.  Parsons, Conley, Horford, Beal, and Barnes too name a few got bigger deals than they should've.  It's foolish to think there's no market for him. 

[trickybilly]

I'm just going to hijack this thread to talk about IT's defense.

I've said before that his defensive liabilities are overstated, and I stand by that. I'm tempted to do some research and put together a piece wjsy style. But simple put: he is great as keeping his man in front, Never falls for ball fakes, and very rarely fouls when contesting jump shots.

You don't need to block jump shots every time.. Just need to get a hand in the eye line. He does that well.

I see that we are perfectly happy letting him switch onto bigs, and most of the time they can't beat him so they pull up and try mid jumpers. They are the shots you want teams taking.

[boscel33]

Is it time to start thinking about selling high on him now?

Look at it from these two perspectives:

1. He is a cost-controlled All Star level talent for the next 1 1/2 years.
2. Is he really 1 of 3 max contract players you want on your team? At $30m per year?

I understand that point 1 in my argument is equally an argument to hold onto him. I just see now as an inflection point to make a move on him while his stock is as high as it will ever be.

I was just looking to see if a thread was started on this topic.  I say Yes, and maybe make a big push for Teague in the off season as an unrestricted free agent.

[green_bballers13]

I like IT way more than Teague. If Teague demands 1/2 the salary, I'd prob go with Teague. I'm not sure that will happen.

[kozlodoev]

Is it time to start thinking about selling high on him now?

Look at it from these two perspectives:

1. He is a cost-controlled All Star level talent for the next 1 1/2 years.
2. Is he really 1 of 3 max contract players you want on your team? At $30m per year?

I understand that point 1 in my argument is equally an argument to hold onto him. I just see now as an inflection point to make a move on him while his stock is as high as it will ever be.

I was just looking to see if a thread was started on this topic.  I say Yes, and maybe make a big push for Teague in the off season as an unrestricted free agent.

So sure, trade Thomas. What would you expect to get for him?

[adam.jones614]

Is it time to start thinking about selling high on him now?

Look at it from these two perspectives:

1. He is a cost-controlled All Star level talent for the next 1 1/2 years.
2. Is he really 1 of 3 max contract players you want on your team? At $30m per year?

I understand that point 1 in my argument is equally an argument to hold onto him. I just see now as an inflection point to make a move on him while his stock is as high as it will ever be.

I was just looking to see if a thread was started on this topic.  I say Yes, and maybe make a big push for Teague in the off season as an unrestricted free agent.

Teague? Teague? Teague!? No..

[iadera]

Switch for Jeff Teague?? Nope.

[OldSchoolDude]

 I think IT will walk in free agency.  I think teams are willing to pay him what he’s worth but not trade away fair value on assets.   If we can get Lonzo Ball, Markelle Fultz, or Dennis Smith I think Thomas’ days are seriously numbered.  But even then I think we let them develop behind IT like Brown is developing behind Crowder.    Y seasons end if they are looking ready we let IT walk or offer him a similar cap friendly deal to what he is on now.  Also, we will have had two more seasons of Rozier and he may be ready to take over by then.   I think that we need to trade for a center now and the man to move is Smart.  I liked the pick at the time (I wanted Exum, but he was gone) and really love his tough play, but when I am truly honest with myself I don’t think he will ever be anything more than Tony Allan and with his injury history he may not even be that.  I am actually thinking he will burn out faster than he should.  I am guessing that because of repeated ankle injuries (notice he keeps hurting the same ankle) he will be in decline within the first two years of his next contract and that will suck for the team that signs him to what will likely be a big contract.

[alldaboston]

I think IT will walk in free agency. I think teams are willing to pay him what he’s worth but not trade away fair value on assets.   If we can get Lonzo Ball, Markelle Fultz, or Dennis Smith I think Thomas’ days are seriously numbered.  But even then I think we let them develop behind IT like Brown is developing behind Crowder.    Y seasons end if they are looking ready we let IT walk or offer him a similar cap friendly deal to what he is on now.  Also, we will have had two more seasons of Rozier and he may be ready to take over by then.   I think that we need to trade for a center now and the man to move is Smart.  I liked the pick at the time (I wanted Exum, but he was gone) and really love his tough play, but when I am truly honest with myself I don’t think he will ever be anything more than Tony Allan and with his injury history he may not even be that.  I am actually thinking he will burn out faster than he should.  I am guessing that because of repeated ankle injuries (notice he keeps hurting the same ankle) he will be in decline within the first two years of his next contract and that will suck for the team that signs him to what will likely be a big contract.

I'd like to know why you think so.

1. Most teams in the NBA already have a franchise point guard in place. It's unlikely that 29 year old IT would be good enough that they'd want to replace their franchise point guard with him. Because, let's make something clear: Isaiah is not going to leave this team to go be a 6th man for another team.
2. I still don't think a team trusts him enough to give him a max, or near max contract, for the same reasons that we don't trust him enough to give him that contract. He's going to be in his 30s in the lifetime of that contract, he's 5'9" and every year after this season, it's likely that he starts slowing down and breaking down more and more. For a guy who relies so much on speed and athleticism to be effective, do you seriously think that other teams are just dying to sign him to a big contract?

I think it's very clear that, for the same reasons that we don't want him to pay him big money, other teams also don't want to pay him big money. If there isn't such an offer on the table for him, then what's he gonna do? He'll be forced to take less money than he wants. I'm totally fine with giving him a less than max contract and having him stay here for maybe 3-4 more years. This is also the first city that has truly loved Isaiah and has made him who he is today. Isaiah knows that. He knows that he isn't a good fit on every team in the NBA. This is a situation that he fits in perfectly. Hell, if the team is still successful by next summer (very likely), it's possible he even takes a "hometown" discount to stay here in a winning situation.

[hwangjini_1]

I think IT will walk in free agency.  I think teams are willing to pay him what he’s worth but not trade away fair value on assets.   If we can get Lonzo Ball, Markelle Fultz, or Dennis Smith I think Thomas’ days are seriously numbered.  But even then I think we let them develop behind IT like Brown is developing behind Crowder.    Y seasons end if they are looking ready we let IT walk or offer him a similar cap friendly deal to what he is on now.  Also, we will have had two more seasons of Rozier and he may be ready to take over by then.   I think that we need to trade for a center now and the man to move is Smart.  I liked the pick at the time (I wanted Exum, but he was gone) and really love his tough play, but when I am truly honest with myself I don’t think he will ever be anything more than Tony Allan and with his injury history he may not even be that.  I am actually thinking he will burn out faster than he should.  I am guessing that because of repeated ankle injuries (notice he keeps hurting the same ankle) he will be in decline within the first two years of his next contract and that will suck for the team that signs him to what will likely be a big contract.

have you ever considered using old school paragraphs?  that would make your post a bit easier to digest.

next, on smart, he is already more than tony allen ever was. despite his shooting limitations - which seem fixable since they appear to be the result of poor shot decisions - smart already wins games in ways allen never has.

i see your points on smart, but i simply disagree.

[manl_lui]

I think IT will walk in free agency. I think teams are willing to pay him what he’s worth but not trade away fair value on assets.   If we can get Lonzo Ball, Markelle Fultz, or Dennis Smith I think Thomas’ days are seriously numbered.  But even then I think we let them develop behind IT like Brown is developing behind Crowder.    Y seasons end if they are looking ready we let IT walk or offer him a similar cap friendly deal to what he is on now.  Also, we will have had two more seasons of Rozier and he may be ready to take over by then.   I think that we need to trade for a center now and the man to move is Smart.  I liked the pick at the time (I wanted Exum, but he was gone) and really love his tough play, but when I am truly honest with myself I don’t think he will ever be anything more than Tony Allan and with his injury history he may not even be that.  I am actually thinking he will burn out faster than he should.  I am guessing that because of repeated ankle injuries (notice he keeps hurting the same ankle) he will be in decline within the first two years of his next contract and that will suck for the team that signs him to what will likely be a big contract.

I'd like to know why you think so.

1. Most teams in the NBA already have a franchise point guard in place. It's unlikely that 29 year old IT would be good enough that they'd want to replace their franchise point guard with him. Because, let's make something clear: Isaiah is not going to leave this team to go be a 6th man for another team.
2. I still don't think a team trusts him enough to give him a max, or near max contract, for the same reasons that we don't trust him enough to give him that contract. He's going to be in his 30s in the lifetime of that contract, he's 5'9" and every year after this season, it's likely that he starts slowing down and breaking down more and more. For a guy who relies so much on speed and athleticism to be effective, do you seriously think that other teams are just dying to sign him to a big contract?

I think it's very clear that, for the same reasons that we don't want him to pay him big money, other teams also don't want to pay him big money. If there isn't such an offer on the table for him, then what's he gonna do? He'll be forced to take less money than he wants. I'm totally fine with giving him a less than max contract and having him stay here for maybe 3-4 more years. This is also the first city that has truly loved Isaiah and has made him who he is today. Isaiah knows that. He knows that he isn't a good fit on every team in the NBA. This is a situation that he fits in perfectly. Hell, if the team is still successful by next summer (very likely), it's possible he even takes a "hometown" discount to stay here in a winning situation.

I agree with this also, I think in the era of guards and small ball, every team has some sort of franchise point guard in place (at least the playoff teams/elite teams). In my opinion guards are easy to come by and under the right situation they can flourish as well. When FA comes, i think ultimately IT's decision at that point is, go to a bad team but get paid a lot, or stay with the Celtics for a hometown discount and build something special

[Vermont Green]

First off, why do we want to trade our best players? Do you actually wanna be worse than we already are?

I am not suggesting we rush out and trade IT but you consider trading your best players if your best players are not going to take you to the promised land.  You trade your best players, who may walk in FA anyway, as a way to rebuild and hopefully be even better at some point in the future.

I suspect that the Celtics strategy is to give this group a go (and I agree with this approach).  We need to make an effort to get another big to start (say Monroe or in a dream sequence, Cousins) and then give this  team a chance.  If that team turns out to be not so good, I believe next off season up to the 2018 trade deadline, you look to trade IT, Horford, and any veteran we may have pick up, for younger players.

If we double down and pay IT max plus have Horford, that is pretty much it.  That is our core for several years.  We still could trade Horford and build around IT but I doubt we do that.

[alldaboston]

Stop these threads.

First off, why do we want to trade our best players? Do you actually wanna be worse than we already are?

Second, he will not (repeat: WILL NOT) fetch you much value in a trade. Most teams in the NBA already have their franchise point guard, and don't need Isaiah. He's not gonna get you much in a trade. This leads me to my second point. If no one will give up much for him, what makes you think he will successfully receive a max contract after his current contract is up? Those same teams that won't trade for him are not gonna sign him either, especially at the amount that he wants. Why then, should we worry about him pouting and wanting a max contract? No other team will give him one, for the same reasons that we're scared of giving him one.

Therefore, I think it's very obvious that Isaiah will sign a team friendly deal in the summer of 2018 to stay with the Celtics, who have essentially been his home and the only team that actually took him seriously and let him do what he wanted. That stuff matters to Isaiah too. He's not just chasing the money (even though we heard the Brinks trucks comment and all).

To conclude, he won't get you good return in a trade, since teams are wary of his height and because teams already have their franchise point guards already. Therefore, it's unlikely that they'll give him a max contract either, for those same reasons. As such, it makes sense that he will return to the Celtics on a moderately priced deal. Case closed.

Bro seriously?

Thomas has become a top 7 point guard that despite his small stature has become one of the most explosive offensive players in the league.  He nearly leads the league in drives, score over 25 and drops 7 assist a game.  Sure he won't get you as much as the next superstar but that is really underselling what he can get in a trade. Add a pick and he could get anyone on the market.

Plus he is definitely getting the Max. He's better than 23 starting point guards and didn't you hear, everyone gets MAX deals.  Parsons, Conley, Horford, Beal, and Barnes too name a few got bigger deals than they should've.  It's foolish to think there's no market for him.

"Everyone" is also taller than Isaiah, and don't project to break down as much as Isaiah might as he progresses into his 30s. Teams are scared of his future, believe me. I'm not claiming any inside knowledge, but it's painfully obvious.

It comes back to my first point: some people here want to get rid of him. Why?
a) to sell high: meaning, they don't think he can sustain the level of play he is currently exhibiting
b) because of his physical limitations, namely his height and reliance on speed

We're scared of extending him for those very reasons. Do you think other teams are completely blind, and don't see those reasons either? Obviously they do see these! They're all smarter than some anonymous Celtics fans on the internet. They know the risks that come with giving a small point guard (who mainly relies on his speed to be effective) a max contract.

Teams are aware of their future too. In year 2 or 3 of that max contract, when Isaiah is 31-32, do you think he'll still be a top point guard in the NBA? I seriously, seriously doubt it. At least with a guy like Horford, he's effective in so many areas of the game, that it's very likely he will still be, at worst, somewhat worthy of his max salary in 2-3 years. Same with Conley, he's a very good floor manager and is a solid defender too.

Isaiah is not like Horford or Conley. He doesn't have all these facets to his game, many of which will still be there for Horford and Conley in a few years. Isaiah is a scorer. That's it. I love what he does for this team, and I know how much he means to us, and I am not suggesting that we look for alternative options. But in 2-3 years, he's most definitely gonna have a drop off, and it'll be rather severe in my opinion.

I say all that to make this point: teams know all this. Teams know the difference between paying Mike Conley a max contract and paying Isaiah Thomas a max contract. It's simply too much of a risk to pay Isaiah a max/big contract. And teams aren't willing to give up much for this, nor are they willing to give out a huge contract for him.

Besides, the entire story of Isaiah's career has been exactly this: everyone doubts him. They doubted him coming into the draft. They doubted him after his 3rd season where he averaged 20 ppg. They doubted him after his first All Star selection. Why do you think they will suddenly stop doubting him now that he's gonna be a free agent?

You might think that last paragraph disproves my entire point, but it doesn't. My point is: other GMs and other teams will almost always doubt him. That's why he will never be the focal point of a trade, and that's why he will not get a max contract in free agency.