Author Topic: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?  (Read 21518 times)

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Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2016, 03:45:29 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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First, it's weak to give Marcus Smart credit for the team winning, as they were winning this year before he came back. And their defense hasn't been great with him back. Randle is on a team with no veterans and a roster that was just tanking last year.

Second, ask yourself this question, who would have more trade value? I think Randle would and that's how I determine if a player is better.

I hope Smart is better, he shot well against Cleveland. I belive 5-9 with 14 points. If he averages that then yeah he's better than Randle. However if he plays like last year then he isn't.

Also, I think Randle is better than Rozier today as well so please don't think this has anything to do with my feelings on Smart as I like him. Just don't see him as a starter in the future.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2016, 03:49:04 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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When they hit restricted free agency
TP for the correct answer.  Personally I would have drafted Randle over Smart.  However  neither Smart or Randle have done enough so far to make a judgment.  Both have significant areas where they need development.  This is really just Randle's 2nd year of playing because of his 1st year injury.  Smart has missed plenty of games due to injury.  So better to wait for the end of their rookie contract to make a judgment between them.

Didn't Smart get some votes for All-NBA defense? Didn't he play well in a playoff series?

Let's see Randle get a few of those down before discussing this further.

He shot 39% from the field in the playoffs last year and he was taking AB's minutes since AB was injured.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2990992/seasontype/3/marcus-smart

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2016, 03:53:23 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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Still a chance randle ends up the next Zach Randolph while smart ends up the next Tony Allen.  I still have smart a hair ahead of him, but that's me being a homer.


I'd be surprised at either being as good as the established players, but Smart would seem a better bet. As far as raw talent though, Tony was a freak until the injuries. Who knows how good he could have been. Not a fan of Randle's game so far. Pretty much the same flaws he came into the NBA with.
Actually, I still think Randle is very much on pace to be a 20/10 Randolph type.  Remember that this is only his second season and last year he was coming off an injury.   

So I'd say the time to revisit it would actually be at the end of this season.   Smart might make a leap this year.  If he doesn't, I think the idea that Smart has star potential all but vanishes.  He regressed from season 1 to 2.  If he doesn't make major improvements in year 3, he'll be seen as a long-term bench role player.  Also, once we get a look at how Randle progresses in his second season, we'll have an idea of what he'll turn into.

Should be noted that both players look pretty good so far this season. 

Randle's per-36:  17.9 points, 10.8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.1 blocks with 59% shooting, 16% from three and 64% fromt he line.

Smart's per-36:  12.2 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 0.6 steals, 1.2 blocks, 41% shooting, 33% from three, 60% from the line.

It's only been two games for Smart, though.  Let's see if he goes back to his historically bad shooting or is actually able to shoot over 40% this year.

Let's be honest here... if you ask an unbias basketball fan, Randle has already leapfrogged Smart.

That's only if you ask an unbiased basketball fan who solely looks at stats. I've said it before Lar, you're largely a numbers guy. You love per 36 stats, you love Tiers, you love rankings. Which is fine. Numbers are certainly important. But impact on the game is also important.

Yes impact on a game is important. How impactful has Smart been in the playoffs against Cleveland? I mean neither player makes an impact imo. An impact player would be like oh say Thomas and Horford. We were losing before we traded for Thomas. But people like to forget that. Oh and we played the same D this year so far with him and without him.

And most of the people I work with, who went to college here but are from a different state don't think Smart is as great you guys make him out to be. He is clearly becoming overrated on this board. I mean you truly can't say Smart is better than Randle.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2016, 06:54:16 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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Still a chance randle ends up the next Zach Randolph while smart ends up the next Tony Allen.  I still have smart a hair ahead of him, but that's me being a homer.


I'd be surprised at either being as good as the established players, but Smart would seem a better bet. As far as raw talent though, Tony was a freak until the injuries. Who knows how good he could have been. Not a fan of Randle's game so far. Pretty much the same flaws he came into the NBA with.
Actually, I still think Randle is very much on pace to be a 20/10 Randolph type.  Remember that this is only his second season and last year he was coming off an injury.   

So I'd say the time to revisit it would actually be at the end of this season.   Smart might make a leap this year.  If he doesn't, I think the idea that Smart has star potential all but vanishes.  He regressed from season 1 to 2.  If he doesn't make major improvements in year 3, he'll be seen as a long-term bench role player.  Also, once we get a look at how Randle progresses in his second season, we'll have an idea of what he'll turn into.

Should be noted that both players look pretty good so far this season. 

Randle's per-36:  17.9 points, 10.8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.1 blocks with 59% shooting, 16% from three and 64% fromt he line.

Smart's per-36:  12.2 points, 4.1 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 0.6 steals, 1.2 blocks, 41% shooting, 33% from three, 60% from the line.

It's only been two games for Smart, though.  Let's see if he goes back to his historically bad shooting or is actually able to shoot over 40% this year.

Let's be honest here... if you ask an unbias basketball fan, Randle has already leapfrogged Smart.

That's only if you ask an unbiased basketball fan who solely looks at stats. I've said it before Lar, you're largely a numbers guy. You love per 36 stats, you love Tiers, you love rankings. Which is fine. Numbers are certainly important. But impact on the game is also important.
How do you determine the impact on the game?

Simple. Watch actual games. Players looking uncomfortable/comfortable doesnt show on stat sheet. Offense ran smoother everytime Smart is on the court and you can actually see players getting easier shots with him running the point. The ball doesn't stick to his hands, so again it doesn't show on stat sheet much often.

Things that you won't see on the individual stat sheet:

- screen sets
- forced turnovers
- plays made
- etc.


You can score many points with very efficient FG% and still ruin the offensive flow of  plays. E.g. Carmelo
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 07:10:39 AM by mr. dee »

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2016, 07:12:50 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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Also, I think Randle is better than Rozier today as well so please don't think this has anything to do with my feelings on Smart as I like him. Just don't see him as a starter in the future.

Neither is Randle. Like someone said, he is Carlos Boozer or Zach Randolph at best. He can't be your starting player on a championship team until he develop his defense and jump shots. He have more glaring holes in his game than Smart. Meanwhile, Smart only have shooting as his problem. Randle is neither a great defensive player nor the best player on his team.

Shooting is much easier to develop than defensive instincts. You can only get away with the lack of defensive abilities if you are the best player on your team with capable defensive team mates. Lakers have mediocre-average defenders.

Randle is neither the best player of his team nor a great defensive presence.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 07:18:08 AM by mr. dee »

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2016, 12:56:35 PM »

Offline CelticsJG

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Also, I think Randle is better than Rozier today as well so please don't think this has anything to do with my feelings on Smart as I like him. Just don't see him as a starter in the future.

Neither is Randle. Like someone said, he is Carlos Boozer or Zach Randolph at best. He can't be your starting player on a championship team until he develop his defense and jump shots. He have more glaring holes in his game than Smart. Meanwhile, Smart only have shooting as his problem. Randle is neither a great defensive player nor the best player on his team.

Shooting is much easier to develop than defensive instincts. You can only get away with the lack of defensive abilities if you are the best player on your team with capable defensive team mates. Lakers have mediocre-average defenders.

Randle is neither the best player of his team nor a great defensive presence.

Quite the opposite. To be a good defender all you have to do is more your feet and put in the effect.


Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2016, 02:09:10 PM »

Offline Kaz

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I was ecstatic when Randle dropped to the Celtics in the draft, only to flip a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. when they took Smart instead, so it's pretty disheartening to see Randle improve on the Lakers while Smart has made only minimal strides.  I still believe in Smart's potential, but man..what if.

Everyone keeps bringing up Randle's defense but I think a lot of it happens to because there are no defenders on his team.  Z-Bo, a guy he's been compared to, didn't develop defense until he was put onto a team that knew defense (Memphis).  Stevens has been able to get good team defense from a guy with god-awful individual defense in Olynyk, he could have turned Randle into a 2-way behemoth

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2016, 02:26:58 PM »

Offline BlackCeltic

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Randle grew up a die hard Laker fan and wanted to be a Laker. That alone makes me prefer the Smart pick.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2016, 02:31:19 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Randle grew up a die hard Laker fan and wanted to be a Laker. That alone makes me prefer the Smart pick.

And he reportedly didn't wanna work out for us a second time because he went to a GQ photo shoot instead.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2016, 02:49:25 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Hind sight is 20-20.

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Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2016, 04:14:34 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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The Celtics live and die on their tough 1-2-3 defense, and Smart is an important part of that. He's more valuable to them than Randle.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2016, 08:11:00 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Just wondering....

Kind of surprised to see this post from you honestly.

I'm full of surprises.

:D


But really, the reason I bring this up is that Randle appears to be coming into his own now that his injury is well behind him and he has a real coach and a defined role on a roster that makes sense.


I like a lot of things about Smart.   He's a fun player to have on the team.  But I don't think he's ever going to be much more than he is.  He's a defensive role player who is a bit of a liability on offense.


Randle looks like a versatile offensive forward with a lot of talent.


There's also Zach Lavine, who continues to look like a professional scorer in the making.

I'm starting to resign myself to Smart being a nice player but not really good enough to justify his draft position.  It's looking like 2014 was solidly not a great draft for Danny Ainge.  Which is surprising to me, because I really liked it at the time.
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Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2016, 08:36:10 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Just wondering....

Kind of surprised to see this post from you honestly.

I'm full of surprises.

:D


But really, the reason I bring this up is that Randle appears to be coming into his own now that his injury is well behind him and he has a real coach and a defined role on a roster that makes sense.


I like a lot of things about Smart.   He's a fun player to have on the team.  But I don't think he's ever going to be much more than he is.  He's a defensive role player who is a bit of a liability on offense.


Randle looks like a versatile offensive forward with a lot of talent.


There's also Zach Lavine, who continues to look like a professional scorer in the making.

I'm starting to resign myself to Smart being a nice player but not really good enough to justify his draft position.  It's looking like 2014 was solidly not a great draft for Danny Ainge.  Which is surprising to me, because I really liked it at the time.




 I've said this a Million Times. Stop bringing up Lavine, he was garbage in college, he was not going to be drafted at #6.

 It was between Randle and Smart and that's it. I don't mind Crying about Randle that is who I wanted and I couldn't believe he slipped to 7.

 Stop with the Smart will never live up to the #6 pick though because besides Randle there was simply no one else that was any better. The end.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2016, 12:53:22 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think most NBA fans would say Randle has leapfrogged Smart.   So far, Randle has a made a more positive impact on this season.  Lakers are 4-3 and he's been the stand-out.  It is what it is.

Ainge supposedly thought hard about taking Randle and later even admitted that Randle was better than Smart.  The reasons he took Smart was because Smart had a killer mentality that hopefully could be developed into a better player.  That, and the team already had invested draft picks in Jared Sullinger and Kelly Olynyk as their power forwards.  The team needed a guard to take the mantle with Rondo likely leaving.   It made some logical sense at the time.  We picked for position.  We took Jaylen Brown for similar reasons... taking Dunn would have caused a log jam at guard.  Jaylen fits a position need.   Smart/Randle were seen a similar tier-2 level players so we went with the one that fit our roster construction.   Jaylen/Dunn were seen as similar tier-3 level players so we went with the one that fit our roster construction.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2016, 12:57:30 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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I think most NBA fans would say Randle has leapfrogged Smart.   So far, Randle has a made a more positive impact on this season.  Lakers are 4-3 and he's been the stand-out.  It is what it is.

Ainge supposedly thought hard about taking Randle and later even admitted that Randle was better than Smart.  The reasons he took Smart was because Smart had a killer mentality that hopefully could be developed into a better player.  That, and the team already had invested draft picks in Jared Sullinger and Kelly Olynyk as their power forwards.  The team needed a guard to take the mantle with Rondo likely leaving.   It made some logical sense at the time.  We picked for position.  We took Jaylen Brown for similar reasons... taking Dunn would have caused a log jam at guard.  Jaylen fits a position need.   Smart/Randle were seen a similar tier-2 level players so we went with the one that fit our roster construction.   Jaylen/Dunn were seen as similar tier-3 level players so we went with the one that fit our roster construction.

Did he actually say that? I've never heard that sentiment from Danny, ever.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about