Author Topic: Jamie Collins to the Browns  (Read 5386 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2016, 11:55:27 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3421
  • Tommy Points: 262
The cold hard facts of this trade are becoming clear to everyone now.  The Pats could have kept Collins on the team for the rest of the season, even if they benched him, let him walk, and got a 3rd Rd compensatory 2018 pick.  That seems like the reasonable thing to do even if you had soured on his on-field execution.  There will be injuries and it might be nice to bring in Collins off the bench.  Or use him as a 3rd down replacement, or mop up time at the end of games.  I don't see how he could be disrupting the team so much that you would basically give him away.  But of course I probably don't know the whole story.

The only possible explanation is that the Pats feel they can trade or pick up a replacement for his spot on the roster that is more valuable.  It may not be a linebacker but getting rid of Collins does open up a roster spot.  If they fill that spot by taking someone off the practice squad, i will be even more perplexed.  That would mean that they felt the practice squad player on the bench is better than Collins on the bench.  Wow, hard to see how that is possible.  Now if they pick up a veteran, someone like a Chris Long but maybe OL or some other position, then this could make sense, a little.  It still means that they think Collins is the 53rd best player on the team.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2016, 12:01:00 PM »

Offline walker834

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Tommy Points: 237
I honestly think bill would put a player off the team vs having him as the 53rd best player on it if he thinks he is above it. The pats aren't going to sell themselves short and didn't do that either.  They have linebackers who are ready to play over him and it just makes it easier to do that and they have an open roster spot and got their pick.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 12:13:10 PM by walker834 »

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2016, 12:13:48 PM »

Offline walker834

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Tommy Points: 237
They still get a compensatory 3rd rounder if cleveland is awarded that. They get a 4th rounder at worst.

The pats are supposed to put their faith in the league that they would have actually gotten that?

This just shows an absolute lack of faith in the league office or draft commision or whoever decides that actually doing their job which is quite funny imo and not shocking at all.

This is Belichick doing what he does and his job and giving a massive finger to everyone else in the process.

The league already stripped the pats of how many draft picks unfairly? And they are supposed to have faith that they would have gotten a 3rd round pick?

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #93 on: November 01, 2016, 12:17:52 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23010
  • Tommy Points: 941
  • What a Pub Should Be
They still get a compensatory 3rd rounder if cleveland is awarded that. They get a 4th rounder at worst.

The pats are supposed to put their faith in the league that they would have actually gotten that?

This just shows an absolute lack of faith in the league office actually doing their job which is quite funny imo and not shocking at all.

Huh? 

Compensatory picks are based on a formula.  How was the league going to screw them on that?

The league does a lot of questionable things.  I'm not sure screwing the Pats on a compensatory pick would be one of them, though.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #94 on: November 01, 2016, 12:19:38 PM »

Offline littleteapot

  • Isaiah Thomas
  • Posts: 820
  • Tommy Points: 91
Walker, you've previously said that you can see how this is a good trade based on the actual evidence available to us. We have no cold-hard evidence that Collins thinks he's above the team. All we know is that he's asking for a lot of money as part of a contract negotiation (there's nothing wrong with that) and that he made a horrible play on Sunday. What player in the NFL does that not apply to? Should we find a linebacker who doesn't want to make money or who never makes mistakes?

No one can actually argue the deal makes sense as far as value with a straight face. OK, so there's some chance we only get a 4th round compensatory pick. Do you really think that's more impactful than the chance that a starting linebacker gets hurt and we don't have a fill-in any more?
How do you feel about websites where people with similar interests share their opinions?
I'm forum!

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #95 on: November 01, 2016, 12:20:12 PM »

Offline walker834

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Tommy Points: 237
The league stripped the patriots of picks they owned as well. That's supposed to be based on a formula too not someones opinion of what they think the pats did with no proof.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #96 on: November 01, 2016, 12:26:40 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23010
  • Tommy Points: 941
  • What a Pub Should Be
The league stripped the patriots of picks they owned as well. That's supposed to be based on a formula too not someones opinion of what they think the pats did with no proof.

What formula is that?


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #97 on: November 01, 2016, 12:30:38 PM »

Offline littleteapot

  • Isaiah Thomas
  • Posts: 820
  • Tommy Points: 91
What formula is that?
(PSI - completion percentage)/(fumbles^2 + number of times Brady texted a ballboy) = number of games suspended
How do you feel about websites where people with similar interests share their opinions?
I'm forum!

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #98 on: November 01, 2016, 12:37:27 PM »

Offline JumpingJudkins

  • Jae Crowder
  • Posts: 337
  • Tommy Points: 16
The league stripped the patriots of picks they owned as well. That's supposed to be based on a formula too not someones opinion of what they think the pats did with no proof.

What formula is that?

Yeah, I think it's a secret formula, and I fully expect that the formula will now decide that the Browns didn't actually earn the expected third-round compensation pick.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #99 on: November 02, 2016, 12:48:34 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7124
  • Tommy Points: 734
When asked about going from the best team in football to the 0-8 browns Collins said hes not worried about the organization.

Not sure what else the guy could say but that could be construed to mean Jamie Collins doesnt care about winning. Fits in with Lombardi talking about how he often played like he was back on that 0-10 college team.

Also said Browns are more of a family atmosphere. Again, hard to read into to much because theres not much else a guy can say after being traded to the Browns, but he doesnt seem like he fit in all to well over in New England.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #100 on: November 02, 2016, 12:51:52 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7124
  • Tommy Points: 734
The league stripped the patriots of picks they owned as well. That's supposed to be based on a formula too not someones opinion of what they think the pats did with no proof.
no its not. The court rulings proved that punishment is very very subjective in the NFL.

compensatory picks are not subjective. There is literally a formula (I believe it is primarily based on PT) that kicks out the compensatory picks. They dont just send a list of FAs to Goodell and let him pick, which is more or less how the punishment worked.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #101 on: November 02, 2016, 02:15:45 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6457
  • Tommy Points: 1135

 Pats offered 11 million per Year. He rejected.

 He wanted around 19 million per year. Von Miller money.

 Roberts makes around 600k per year, and fly's around the field and follows instructions.

 In Bills mind it's an easy decision. 600k vs 19 million for similar production, No Brainer.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #102 on: November 02, 2016, 02:22:31 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7124
  • Tommy Points: 734

 Pats offered 11 million per Year. He rejected.

 He wanted around 19 million per year. Von Miller money.

 Roberts makes around 600k per year, and fly's around the field and follows instructions.

 In Bills mind it's an easy decision. 600k vs 19 million for similar production, No Brainer.
Everything Ive seen says that the Pats discussed 11 mil a year. They did not offer it. Everyone has refuted that he wanted "Von Miller Money"

Also, no one has a problem with the Patriots not wanting to keep Collins. The problem is why dump him in the midst of a playoff run for virtually no return?

The answer must be that Collins was not as valuable to this team as many thought.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #103 on: November 02, 2016, 02:23:35 PM »

Offline BitterJim

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4303
  • Tommy Points: 605

 Pats offered 11 million per Year. He rejected.

 He wanted around 19 million per year. Von Miller money.

 Roberts makes around 600k per year, and fly's around the field and follows instructions.

 In Bills mind it's an easy decision. 600k vs 19 million for similar production, No Brainer.

That's fine for next year, but this year Collins was making ~$500k.  The compensatory pick we get from the Browns isn't any different than we would have gotten if/when we let Collins go in free agency, except that it comes one year earlier.  This isn't $19 million vs. $600k, it's 8 games plus playoffs with Collins and a 2018 3rd round compensatory pick vs. a 2017 3rd round compensatory pick.  That is the part that's tough to make sense of (and which is being discussed in this thread), not the money.  I think everyone here gets not wanting to pay him, but not wanting to pay him doesn't mean you have to trade him for such a small return
I'm bitter.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #104 on: November 02, 2016, 02:25:00 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23010
  • Tommy Points: 941
  • What a Pub Should Be

 Pats offered 11 million per Year. He rejected.

 He wanted around 19 million per year. Von Miller money.

 Roberts makes around 600k per year, and fly's around the field and follows instructions.

 In Bills mind it's an easy decision. 600k vs 19 million for similar production, No Brainer.
Everything Ive seen says that the Pats discussed 11 mil a year. They did not offer it. Everyone has refuted that he wanted "Von Miller Money"

Also, no one has a problem with the Patriots not wanting to keep Collins. The problem is why dump him in the midst of a playoff run for virtually no return?

The answer must be that Collins was not as valuable to this team as many thought.

Or he was becoming a problem in the locker room.  Pure speculation but I wouldn't put that past Belichick either.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team