Author Topic: Jamie Collins to the Browns  (Read 5316 times)

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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2016, 02:40:26 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I hope Bill's ego isn't behind this move.  Collins was the heart and soul of our defense.  Stunner.
He was a player who is gifted physically, but hasn't even come close to being the heart and soul of anything -- especially this season. I mean, he pretty much lost his job to Elandon Roberts.

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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2016, 02:42:48 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't like this either, but I am remembering the last trade I really hated. It was when we traded Moss away for a 4th round pick from Minnesota (If memory serves correct anyways). I was so mad and thought we p---ed away our chance at a super bowl over ego. Then I saw Moss do nothing with the Vikings, get cut for insulting the Caterer and struggle to even see the field on the Titans. Anyone else remember that?

I remember that, but I also remember the Pats getting punked by the Jets in the playoffs because none of their receivers could get open.
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2016, 02:54:32 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2016, 02:55:00 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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If Belichick lost control of the player, then it doesn't matter what he's traded for. You could cut him and there would be addition by subtraction.I'm assuming that his contract became a distraction for the player, and subsequently, the team.

Belichick drafted this super athletic guy from Southern Mississippi after they went winless. He was a diamond in the rough. He has since picked up guys like Mingo and Van Noy who were high draft picks at the LB position. Hopefully one of them can work out.

Thornton said it correctly: "They'd rather have Landon Roberts in the right spot doing the right things than Jamie Collins (an athletic freak) free-lancing." This is the ultimate "Do Your Job" move. Belichick wants control of everything. If Collins wasn't ok with that, oh well. I'm sure Bill will make another great draft pick.

Who's Thornton?

Jerry Thornton, goof ball on WEEI. He made a good point though. Bill is more concerned about a team following his lead than having a bunch of talented players doing their own thing.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2016, 03:06:40 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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It almost seems slightly dictatorial to me, like he's just not afraid at all to make enemies. You ask for market value? You come in high? You're gone the next day. They are just not afraid of loyalty at all there. I think ultimately they don't really believe in loyalty, which is fine, but I also don't really believe in punishing a guy the very next day just because you can.

It comes off as a message to me.  Although part of the message is "I believe in you and your ability to get better and move on from one guy" and it's sending a message of "team first".

I still am not sure it makes sense to hurt yourself over a guy that wanted too much money unnecessarily.
It seems like the Patriots and the Red Sox both take contract negotiations really personally.
And between them they've won 6 rings in the last 12 years.
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2016, 03:08:38 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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There's also this, but it's Lombardi, so take it with a grain of salt:

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2016/10/31/former-patriots-executive-mike-lombardi-jamie-collins-didnt-follow-team-strategy-in-new-england-at-times/

So the consensus seems to be lack of discipline.  Didn't stay in his lane.  That sort of thing.  Sounds reasonable.  Incidentally, I always felt that was the case with Chandler Jones as well.  He really was bad at holding the corner.

But even if that is the case, why not just bench him, let him go at the end of the season, and take the Comp pick in 2018?  Injuries happen every week, he could prove useful.  Or why couldn't we try to get a good offensive lineman or something for him?  There is a possibility of another trade where maybe this becomes more logical but right now I am scratching my head.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2016, 03:10:29 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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There's also this, but it's Lombardi, so take it with a grain of salt:

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2016/10/31/former-patriots-executive-mike-lombardi-jamie-collins-didnt-follow-team-strategy-in-new-england-at-times/

So the consensus seems to be lack of discipline.  Didn't stay in his lane.  That sort of thing.  Sounds reasonable.  Incidentally, I always felt that was the case with Chandler Jones as well.  He really was bad at holding the corner.

But even if that is the case, why not just bench him, let him go at the end of the season, and take the Comp pick in 2018?  Injuries happen every week, he could prove useful.  Or why couldn't we try to get a good offensive lineman or something for him?  There is a possibility of another trade where maybe this becomes more logical but right now I am scratching my head.
yeah i wish we could have swapped him for Joe Thomas but Id imagine the Browns wouldnt have done that.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2016, 03:14:33 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I don't like this either, but I am remembering the last trade I really hated. It was when we traded Moss away for a 4th round pick from Minnesota (If memory serves correct anyways). I was so mad and thought we p---ed away our chance at a super bowl over ego. Then I saw Moss do nothing with the Vikings, get cut for insulting the Caterer and struggle to even see the field on the Titans. Anyone else remember that?

I remember that, but I also remember the Pats getting punked by the Jets in the playoffs because none of their receivers could get open.

Yeah, you have to imagine Moss wasn't thrilled with not being on an elite team like the Pats. Somebody as competitive as he was probably lost some focus.

This may be a reason so many players flounder after leaving the Pats (not just that they are on the downside of the career). It must suck having played for a perennial super bowl contending team and then going to a much worse team.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2016, 03:15:54 PM »

Offline eja117

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It almost seems slightly dictatorial to me, like he's just not afraid at all to make enemies. You ask for market value? You come in high? You're gone the next day. They are just not afraid of loyalty at all there. I think ultimately they don't really believe in loyalty, which is fine, but I also don't really believe in punishing a guy the very next day just because you can.

It comes off as a message to me.  Although part of the message is "I believe in you and your ability to get better and move on from one guy" and it's sending a message of "team first".

I still am not sure it makes sense to hurt yourself over a guy that wanted too much money unnecessarily.
It seems like the Patriots and the Red Sox both take contract negotiations really personally.
And between them they've won 6 rings in the last 12 years.
They missed some chances too.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2016, 03:21:25 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I hope Bill's ego isn't behind this move.  Collins was the heart and soul of our defense.  Stunner.
He was a player who is gifted physically, but hasn't even come close to being the heart and soul of anything -- especially this season. I mean, he pretty much lost his job to Elandon Roberts.

NBA Comparison: Rudy Gay.
I think Rondo might be a better comparison.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2016, 03:21:54 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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It seems like the Patriots and the Red Sox both take contract negotiations really personally.
And between them they've won 6 rings in the last 12 years.
The Pats can get away with it because they have the greatest coach in NFL history and one of the greatest qbs. Even losing a very talented player in Collins for essentially nothing, I still think they're the best team in the league this year.

The Sox can get away with it because they do a great job acquiring and developing prospects and they can spend more money than 25 teams in the league.

Also it's entirely possible that there would have been no room for a deal with Lester if the Sox had been willing to negotiate with him, and I think it's likely Collins was going to the highest bidder, which wouldn't be the Pats, but in general it seems like they end up going for some vengeful tactics in the middle that IMO cross a line.
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2016, 03:25:35 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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The now infamous 28 yard run where Collins "does whatever he wants"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRhoKmg2NRI
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2016, 03:32:19 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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It seems like the Patriots and the Red Sox both take contract negotiations really personally.
And between them they've won 6 rings in the last 12 years.
The Pats can get away with it because they have the greatest coach in NFL history and one of the greatest qbs. Even losing a very talented player in Collins for essentially nothing, I still think they're the best team in the league this year.

The Sox can get away with it because they do a great job acquiring and developing prospects and they can spend more money than 25 teams in the league.

Also it's entirely possible that there would have been no room for a deal with Lester if the Sox had been willing to negotiate with him, and I think it's likely Collins was going to the highest bidder, which wouldn't be the Pats, but in general it seems like they end up going for some vengeful tactics in the middle that IMO cross a line.
Ill agree with that.

But I think it applies to the Red Sox much more than the Patriots. Every move Belichick makes is a calculated football decision I believe.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2016, 03:32:26 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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There's also this, but it's Lombardi, so take it with a grain of salt:

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2016/10/31/former-patriots-executive-mike-lombardi-jamie-collins-didnt-follow-team-strategy-in-new-england-at-times/

So the consensus seems to be lack of discipline.  Didn't stay in his lane.  That sort of thing.  Sounds reasonable.  Incidentally, I always felt that was the case with Chandler Jones as well.  He really was bad at holding the corner.

But even if that is the case, why not just bench him, let him go at the end of the season, and take the Comp pick in 2018?  Injuries happen every week, he could prove useful.  Or why couldn't we try to get a good offensive lineman or something for him?  There is a possibility of another trade where maybe this becomes more logical but right now I am scratching my head.
I would have loved Joe Thomas, but no-one is giving you Joe Thomas for a future UFA.

I mean, this deal is already a head-scratcher for the Browns, who just bought themselves half a season of Jamie Collins for their 0-8 team... not sure what they're trying to get out of this.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 03:41:46 PM by kozlodoev »
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2016, 03:35:27 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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So do we blame Bill when we dont make it to the super bowl irregardless of bradys brilliant performance? Or do we expect Barkevious Mingo to step in and be the ridiculous athletic freak (as he was drafted as?)
My 2017 Draft Rankings:       My 2017 FA Celtic Rankings:
1.) Markelle Fultz                   1.) Gordon Hayward
2.) Jayson Tatum                   2.) Blake Griffin
3.) Lonzo Ball                           3.) No other realistic options
4.) Josh Jackson                          move the needle much
5.) Lauri Markkanen