Author Topic: Jamie Collins to the Browns  (Read 5086 times)

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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2016, 02:12:50 PM »

Offline eja117

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To be fair a compensatory pick would have come at the end of the third round. Right? Whereas this pick is the Browns pick, so it's at the top right? And a year soon, which is important because Brady is going to die soon, right?

From what has been reported it's the Browns Compensatory pick, so it is at the end of the 3rd round.
Compensatory picks can't be traded. ....interestingly that is changing with the 2017 draft. In that case....stupid

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2016, 02:13:20 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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To be fair a compensatory pick would have come at the end of the third round. Right? Whereas this pick is the Browns pick, so it's at the top right? And a year soon, which is important because Brady is going to die soon, right?

From what has been reported it's the Browns Compensatory pick, so it is at the end of the 3rd round.
Compensatory picks can't be traded.

Yes, they can now.  They changed the rules starting in '17.


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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2016, 02:13:53 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I just dont get it.

The patriots had one player who projected to "possibly" be the best at their position on defense. Butler will never be a CB1, our D line is becomibg quickly awful, and while hightower is our "best" LB, collins had all of the potential to hit that LB1 sphere. But no.

So out of our 3 best defensive players last year (Hightower, Collins and Chandler) we are down to Hightower. This is a tough position. This was Bradys year to get # 5 considering the lack of strength in both conferences.
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2016, 02:16:02 PM »

Offline eja117

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To be fair a compensatory pick would have come at the end of the third round. Right? Whereas this pick is the Browns pick, so it's at the top right? And a year soon, which is important because Brady is going to die soon, right?

From what has been reported it's the Browns Compensatory pick, so it is at the end of the 3rd round.
Compensatory picks can't be traded.

Yes, they can now.  They changed the rules starting in '17.
In that case it's a stupid move by Belichick. He makes them sometimes.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2016, 02:17:50 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I just dont get it.

The patriots had one player who projected to "possibly" be the best at their position on defense. Butler will never be a CB1, our D line is becomibg quickly awful, and while hightower is our "best" LB, collins had all of the potential to hit that LB1 sphere. But no.

So out of our 3 best defensive players last year (Hightower, Collins and Chandler) we are down to Hightower. This is a tough position. This was Bradys year to get # 5 considering the lack of strength in both conferences.

And I don't anything has changed.  They're still the favorite to come out of the AFC and probably the favorite to win the Super Bowl.

Again, Collins has been a bit up & down this season.   This move isn't a death knell to their chances to win Super Bowl LI.


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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2016, 02:23:47 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I just dont get it.

The patriots had one player who projected to "possibly" be the best at their position on defense. Butler will never be a CB1, our D line is becomibg quickly awful, and while hightower is our "best" LB, collins had all of the potential to hit that LB1 sphere. But no.

So out of our 3 best defensive players last year (Hightower, Collins and Chandler) we are down to Hightower. This is a tough position. This was Bradys year to get # 5 considering the lack of strength in both conferences.

And I don't anything has changed.  They're still the favorite to come out of the AFC and probably the favorite to win the Super Bowl.

Again, Collins has been a bit up & down this season.   This move isn't a death knell to their chances to win Super Bowl LI.
No, but Colllins has been a difference maker in the playoffs in recent years. I dont like the trade.

You have to trust Belichick tho, the track record is too impressive not to.
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2016, 02:26:14 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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If Belichick lost control of the player, then it doesn't matter what he's traded for. You could cut him and there would be addition by subtraction.I'm assuming that his contract became a distraction for the player, and subsequently, the team.

Belichick drafted this super athletic guy from Southern Mississippi after they went winless. He was a diamond in the rough. He has since picked up guys like Mingo and Van Noy who were high draft picks at the LB position. Hopefully one of them can work out.

Thornton said it correctly: "They'd rather have Landon Roberts in the right spot doing the right things than Jamie Collins (an athletic freak) free-lancing." This is the ultimate "Do Your Job" move. Belichick wants control of everything. If Collins wasn't ok with that, oh well. I'm sure Bill will make another great draft pick.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2016, 02:27:40 PM »

Offline mef730

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Is there any reason to believe that this isn't an immediate "locker room" or "culture" issue? We know BB will quickly dump anyone who doesn't conform to the system. We also know he didn't do this because of the great return he got for Collins. That leaves very few other reasons for it.

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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2016, 02:28:00 PM »

Offline eja117

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It almost seems slightly dictatorial to me, like he's just not afraid at all to make enemies. You ask for market value? You come in high? You're gone the next day. They are just not afraid of loyalty at all there. I think ultimately they don't really believe in loyalty, which is fine, but I also don't really believe in punishing a guy the very next day just because you can.

It comes off as a message to me.  Although part of the message is "I believe in you and your ability to get better and move on from one guy" and it's sending a message of "team first".

I still am not sure it makes sense to hurt yourself over a guy that wanted too much money unnecessarily.

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2016, 02:28:34 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I just dont get it.

The patriots had one player who projected to "possibly" be the best at their position on defense. Butler will never be a CB1, our D line is becomibg quickly awful, and while hightower is our "best" LB, collins had all of the potential to hit that LB1 sphere. But no.

So out of our 3 best defensive players last year (Hightower, Collins and Chandler) we are down to Hightower. This is a tough position. This was Bradys year to get # 5 considering the lack of strength in both conferences.

And I don't anything has changed.  They're still the favorite to come out of the AFC and probably the favorite to win the Super Bowl.

Again, Collins has been a bit up & down this season.   This move isn't a death knell to their chances to win Super Bowl LI.
No, but Colllins has been a difference maker in the playoffs in recent years. I dont like the trade.

You have to trust Belichick tho, the track record is too impressive not to.

He got lit up by Owen Daniels in the AFC Championship game last year.   He was also responsible for that huge Lynch gain on that fateful final drive in Super Bowl XLIX two years ago.

He's a heckuva talent and certainly has a high ceiling but he has also had his moments where his play has hurt the Pats.    Pats are going to miss him, but at the same time, they can't keep everyone.  The salary cap won't let them.


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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2016, 02:28:50 PM »

Offline mef730

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If Belichick lost control of the player, then it doesn't matter what he's traded for. You could cut him and there would be addition by subtraction.I'm assuming that his contract became a distraction for the player, and subsequently, the team.

Belichick drafted this super athletic guy from Southern Mississippi after they went winless. He was a diamond in the rough. He has since picked up guys like Mingo and Van Noy who were high draft picks at the LB position. Hopefully one of them can work out.

Thornton said it correctly: "They'd rather have Landon Roberts in the right spot doing the right things than Jamie Collins (an athletic freak) free-lancing." This is the ultimate "Do Your Job" move. Belichick wants control of everything. If Collins wasn't ok with that, oh well. I'm sure Bill will make another great draft pick.

TP, beat me to it!

Mike
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2016, 02:29:22 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Is there any reason to believe that this isn't an immediate "locker room" or "culture" issue? We know BB will quickly dump anyone who doesn't conform to the system. We also know he didn't do this because of the great return he got for Collins. That leaves very few other reasons for it.
Im wondering the same thing.
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2016, 02:33:06 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I just dont get it.

The patriots had one player who projected to "possibly" be the best at their position on defense. Butler will never be a CB1, our D line is becomibg quickly awful, and while hightower is our "best" LB, collins had all of the potential to hit that LB1 sphere. But no.

So out of our 3 best defensive players last year (Hightower, Collins and Chandler) we are down to Hightower. This is a tough position. This was Bradys year to get # 5 considering the lack of strength in both conferences.

And I don't anything has changed.  They're still the favorite to come out of the AFC and probably the favorite to win the Super Bowl.

Again, Collins has been a bit up & down this season.   This move isn't a death knell to their chances to win Super Bowl LI.
No, but Colllins has been a difference maker in the playoffs in recent years. I dont like the trade.

You have to trust Belichick tho, the track record is too impressive not to.

He got lit up by Owen Daniels in the AFC Championship game last year.   He was also responsible for that huge Lynch gain on that fateful final drive in Super Bowl XLIX two years ago.

He's a heckuva talent and certainly has a high ceiling but he has also had his moments where his play has hurt the Pats.    Pats are going to miss him, but at the same time, they can't keep everyone.  The salary cap won't let them.
I understand that, but if this was just about Collins wanting more than we wanted to give him, then I would have rather kept him for the superbowl run and let him walk.

We get almost nothing in return here. We basically traded Collins plus pick 100 in 2018 for pick 100 in 2017.

Collins' freelancing out on the field must have been a bigger issue than most of us realized.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2016, 02:38:03 PM »

Offline celts55

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If Belichick lost control of the player, then it doesn't matter what he's traded for. You could cut him and there would be addition by subtraction.I'm assuming that his contract became a distraction for the player, and subsequently, the team.

Belichick drafted this super athletic guy from Southern Mississippi after they went winless. He was a diamond in the rough. He has since picked up guys like Mingo and Van Noy who were high draft picks at the LB position. Hopefully one of them can work out.

Thornton said it correctly: "They'd rather have Landon Roberts in the right spot doing the right things than Jamie Collins (an athletic freak) free-lancing." This is the ultimate "Do Your Job" move. Belichick wants control of everything. If Collins wasn't ok with that, oh well. I'm sure Bill will make another great draft pick.

Who's Thornton?

Re: Jamie Collins to the Browns
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2016, 02:40:08 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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It almost seems slightly dictatorial to me, like he's just not afraid at all to make enemies. You ask for market value? You come in high? You're gone the next day. They are just not afraid of loyalty at all there. I think ultimately they don't really believe in loyalty, which is fine, but I also don't really believe in punishing a guy the very next day just because you can.

It comes off as a message to me.  Although part of the message is "I believe in you and your ability to get better and move on from one guy" and it's sending a message of "team first".

I still am not sure it makes sense to hurt yourself over a guy that wanted too much money unnecessarily.
It seems like the Patriots and the Red Sox both take contract negotiations really personally.
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