Need an upgrade from Amir

[blink]

I like Horford a lot and I think Amir is good too, but we need more than two bigs that can help on the boards.  Zellar has played better than expected in the first couple of games but he isn't a great rebounder and neither is KO.  We just, like most other nba teams, have a missing piece of the puzzle.  I don't want to get rid of horford or Amir.  If there was a reasonable way (not too many assets given up) to add N Noel I think he would be a great fit.   Cousins old be even better it we are going to have to give up a Lot to get him.  Probably too much.

[celts55]

I like Amir. His game is underrated. There's a reason why CBS and Ainge went after him.

He is a great team player, makes the right plays, can guard inside or on the perimeter, and passes.

My goodness, it's almost like Celticsblog needs two areas: one for overreaction zone (aka NBA 2k zone) and one for basketball discussion.

Oh, I'm sorry. Because you like Amir, this is not a basketball discussion. he was here all last year also. Again I'm not basing my thoughts on 2 games.
Please explain what makes him a great team player? What are these right plays he makes?
I haven't seen this terrific defense. I do like when he passes, because he can't shot. Do you not believe the Celtics could use an upgrade at center?
I don't mind if you don't agree with me, but to claim that his lack of production is not a basketball issue is incorrect in my opinion.

Amir's game is not a typical game or box scores. Never has been. His impact is always shown the RPM scores. There is a reason why he starts over Zeller, even though Zeller puts up stats. Because Zeller doesn't do the little things well that Amir does.

He sets great picks that really get defenders stuck on him. He is a really good help defender - not in the traditional shot-blocking role, but in the he's-always-in-the-right-place-to-deter-drivers role. He is a good post defender. He can switch and guard perimeter players in spurts.

He does move the ball well and quickly. He doesn't turn it over. His unselfishness is one of the cogs that make our offense smooth.

I wish he could score more frequently, and get back above 30% from 3, and rebound a bit more consistently, but there is a reason why we got him on a really good contract. He's not an All-star, but he is a good role player.

First, starting over Zeller is no great feat.
You do make some good points, and I wasn't trying to say he's terrible. Doing the things you mentioned makes me think he could be a decent guy off the bench, for maybe 10-15 minutes per game. 8th-9th man? I just believe for the Celtics to be a serious contender, they need someone in the middle you can rebound and rim protect better than him.
See, it is a basketball discussion. 

[Evantime34]

Once Kelly comes back he should be that upgrade.

Amir is great in specific match ups. Last night they had him guarding Robin Lopez and Amir can't handle real seven footers so he looked bad (why Horford wasn't the one guarding the 5 is besides me). On opening night I thought he played well against the Nets because he got to use his length on help defense.

I don't really see Amir's fit with Horford. Since Horford is so good in the pick and roll, I'd prefer to play him with a perimeter based big so that Horford can roll to the hoop and isn't forced to pop every time due to a crowded paint. On defense if Horford isn't going to guard traditional 5's then they need to pair him with someone who can (or at least someeone who is a good rebounder) and that ain't Amir, which is why Zeller started the second half.

I'd like to see Amir be the captain of the 2nd unit defense, since I've though the 2nd unit defense has been bad so far.

[slamtheking]

Amir is a terrific big to bring off the bench.  problem is, he's starting for us.  we do need an upgrade, the question is, where can we get one that won't deplete the roster to the point where we've opened up other holes.

I'm good with Noel if you can get him for a reasonable price.

Noel brings D but he doesn't solve the rebounding issue and he certainly doesn't make anything better on offense -- in fact he'd make it worse.

If we're going after a philly big, I was open to getting Noel if the offense looked better than it has but basing this just off 2 games, I'm coming around to considering Okafor who's definitely a scorer and a better rebounder than Noel.  His D (currently) isn't that good but I'd rely on Brad/Danny to determine if that's something he's incapable of learning while considering him as a trade prospect

[celts55]

Amir is a terrific big to bring off the bench.  problem is, he's starting for us.  we do need an upgrade, the question is, where can we get one that won't deplete the roster to the point where we've opened up other holes.

I'm good with Noel if you can get him for a reasonable price.

Noel brings D but he doesn't solve the rebounding issue and he certainly doesn't make anything better on offense -- in fact he'd make it worse.

If we're going after a philly big, I was open to getting Noel if the offense looked better than it has but basing this just off 2 games, I'm coming around to considering Okafor who's definitely a scorer and a better rebounder than Noel.  His D (currently) isn't that good but I'd rely on Brad/Danny to determine if that's something he's incapable of learning while considering him as a trade prospect

I'm good with Okafor, and I agree I'm prefer him. I was just under the impression that Philly was looking to move Noel. If they are willing to move Okafor, I'm in.

[fairweatherfan]

I semi-agree, in that I really like Amir and what he brings to the table, but would prefer he be bringing it as a 3rd big rather than a starter. He has had some nice play with Horford early, though, so we'll see what the next several weeks bring as they continue to gel.

[CelticGuardian]

How about a three team trade between BOS, SAC and PHI?

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'll settle for an upgrade over Zeller. It's not much to ask.

[BitterJim]

Amir is a terrific big to bring off the bench.  problem is, he's starting for us.  we do need an upgrade, the question is, where can we get one that won't deplete the roster to the point where we've opened up other holes.

I'm good with Noel if you can get him for a reasonable price.

Noel brings D but he doesn't solve the rebounding issue and he certainly doesn't make anything better on offense -- in fact he'd make it worse.

If we're going after a philly big, I was open to getting Noel if the offense looked better than it has but basing this just off 2 games, I'm coming around to considering Okafor who's definitely a scorer and a better rebounder than Noel.  His D (currently) isn't that good but I'd rely on Brad/Danny to determine if that's something he's incapable of learning while considering him as a trade prospect

Okafor is a lot of things, but in no way is he a better rebounder than Noel.  Noel averaged 2.3 orbd, 5.8 drbd, and 8.1 trbd per game vs. Okafor's 2.3 orbd, 4.7 drbd, and 7.0 trbd in similar minutes (29.3 for Noel, 30.0 for Okafor).  Looking at rebound percentages, Noel is again better with 8.2% orbd, 22.2% drbd, and 15.0 trbd vs. Okafor's 8.1% orbd, 17.8% drbd, and 12.8% trbd

For reference, Amir averaged 2.3 orbd, 4.1 drbd, and 6.4 trbd in 22.8 mpg (3.0 orbd, 5.4 drbd, and 8.4 trbd per 30 minutes), and 10.3% orbd, 19.6% drbd, and 14.9% trbd

Neither of them is a good rebounder, but Noel is definitely the better of the two (although still not an upgrade over Amir).  Okafor would be an offensive upgrade, and Noel a defensive one, but given the assets we'd have to give up for them (and the contract issues with Noel next summer), neither of them would make much sense for the Celtics right now

Source: http://bkref.com/tiny/HHil2

[BitterJim]

I'll settle for an upgrade over Zeller. It's not much to ask.

Why can't Olynyk just be healthy already?

[billysan]

Our poor shooting was Amirs fault as well?

Small ball doesnt wirk if shots arent falling.

We need Olynyk back at 100% and in the starting lineup.

Ditch the projects and bring over Zizic.

We simply need the length inside.

Or wait till next year and sign/ draft a long big that can compete for a rotation spot.

This lack of a big man to play alongside Horford  is why we resigned Zeller. Amir has the same shortcoming.

[slamtheking]

Our poor shooting was Amirs fault as well?

Small ball doesnt wirk if shots arent falling.

We need Olynyk back at 100% and in the starting lineup.

Ditch the projects and bring over Zizic.

We simply need the length inside.

Or wait till next year and sign/ draft a long big that can compete for a rotation spot.

This lack of a big man to play alongside Horford  is why we resigned Zeller. Amir has the same shortcoming.

This.

when our shots are falling, we look great.  when they're not, our offense is horrible

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I like Amir. His game is underrated. There's a reason why CBS and Ainge went after him.

He is a great team player, makes the right plays, can guard inside or on the perimeter, and passes.

My goodness, it's almost like Celticsblog needs two areas: one for overreaction zone (aka NBA 2k zone) and one for basketball discussion.

Oh, I'm sorry. Because you like Amir, this is not a basketball discussion. he was here all last year also. Again I'm not basing my thoughts on 2 games.
Please explain what makes him a great team player? What are these right plays he makes?
I haven't seen this terrific defense. I do like when he passes, because he can't shot. Do you not believe the Celtics could use an upgrade at center?
I don't mind if you don't agree with me, but to claim that his lack of production is not a basketball issue is incorrect in my opinion.

Amir's game is not a typical game or box scores. Never has been. His impact is always shown the RPM scores. There is a reason why he starts over Zeller, even though Zeller puts up stats. Because Zeller doesn't do the little things well that Amir does.

He sets great picks that really get defenders stuck on him. He is a really good help defender - not in the traditional shot-blocking role, but in the he's-always-in-the-right-place-to-deter-drivers role. He is a good post defender. He can switch and guard perimeter players in spurts.

He does move the ball well and quickly. He doesn't turn it over. His unselfishness is one of the cogs that make our offense smooth.

I wish he could score more frequently, and get back above 30% from 3, and rebound a bit more consistently, but there is a reason why we got him on a really good contract. He's not an All-star, but he is a good role player.

First, starting over Zeller is no great feat.
You do make some good points, and I wasn't trying to say he's terrible. Doing the things you mentioned makes me think he could be a decent guy off the bench, for maybe 10-15 minutes per game. 8th-9th man? I just believe for the Celtics to be a serious contender, they need someone in the middle you can rebound and rim protect better than him.
See, it is a basketball discussion. 

I get what you mean. My point is that when Zeller is in there, he gets buckets and some rebounds, but those numbers don't do a great deal to win games. Amir, on the other hand, doesn't get good numbers, but he does impact wins.

[PhoSita]

An upgrade from Amir would be nice, but I think that would require a pretty good player coming our way.

[Evantime34]

Our poor shooting was Amirs fault as well?

Small ball doesnt wirk if shots arent falling.

We need Olynyk back at 100% and in the starting lineup.

Ditch the projects and bring over Zizic.

We simply need the length inside.

Or wait till next year and sign/ draft a long big that can compete for a rotation spot.

This lack of a big man to play alongside Horford  is why we resigned Zeller. Amir has the same shortcoming.

What poor shooting? We are shooting 52% on the season.