Losing Turner and Sullinger is addition by subtraction

[CelticPride2016]

A blogger here has questioned my basketball knowledge. He took issue with the idea that there is not much separation between Sullinger and Zeller. I was responding to his comment that Horford is not going to make a big impact on our w-l record. He claimed while Horford is quite a bit better than Sully, it's really no big deal.

His other reason for thinking we won't pile up a lot more wins than last year is the loss of Turner. I disagree.

Tonight was only one game, but we piled up a lot of assists. Horford had six, Bradley five and Isaiah nine. Every Celtic got an assist and only Brown ended up with only one.

The difference between myself and the other blogger imho is that I do not act as if the future is set in stone.

Jae played 29 minutes and Brown 19. We were not lacking for a small forward. We were not lacking for assists.

Tyler Zeller looked pretty good too which makes my comparing him to Sullinger not as crazy as it may have seemed.

Horford also showed up with four blocks.

We didn't even miss Sully's rebounding as Avery had nine and Isaiah six. That is how you make up for not having a Sully or Rodman. You rebound as a team.

I know Brooklyn is considered a bottom three team, so this is definitely the wrong time to assess early opinions.

Nonetheless, from where I sit, it is clearly obvious that Evan Turner and Sullinger are not missed.

Jaylen Brown is an upgrade on Turner at small forward as a rookie. Turner is no longer needed for assists.

We have plenty of spark plugs even without two tonight in Olynyk and Smart.

I see us winning a minimum of 60 games. If it's only 55 or 57, then oh well. I actually said we'd win 65, but I was getting tired of all the know-it-all negativity. It's not going to be 48-50 wins like some claim.

Jared Sullinger is overrated and fat. Evan Turner might also be overrated. Let's see what he can do in Portland. Meanwhile, it looks like Sully is injured and hopefully laying off the chips and soda as he heals.

The best thing that happened was Sully replaced by Horford. It is such a massive upgrade in talent that it should provide us with at least ten extra wins. I think what we have in place of Turner is much more team oriented and natural and should also add some wins to the 48 from last year.

60-65 wins and a top three team sounds about right after all will be said and done. That is my prediction.

It's okay to be a contrarian and not just go with the crowd. Just maybe keep the passive aggression to oneself. The person who questioned my basketball knowledge doesn't think Horford replacing Sully will make much of an impact in the standings. Okay, thanks for your input.

[Moranis]

Boston allowed the team Vegas projects as the worst team in basketball to score 117 points, shoot 44 three pointers and get to the line more, and barely outrebounded one of, if not the worst, rebounding teams in basketball.  All on a night when Brook Lopez was terrible offensively and Boston almost choked away a huge 4th quarter lead. 

I wouldn't project anything from the first game of the year, but your broad statements seem to be way out of whack from what actually happened. 

[BitterJim]

Just maybe keep the passive aggression to oneself

I don't know who this whole thing is about, but I find it hilarious that you included this line in a huge passive aggressive post

[SHAQATTACK]

When Turner was good ,  he was a hero ,  and when he came in dominated ball , killed the ball movement and created massive turnovers you wished he was off the team.  That lopsided type of play or inconsistent ....drives me wild ......it's best for my blood pressure not to have to worry which Turner is checking in the game.   His play could win games in a pinch or flat out kill the rymthem of the rest of the team. 

I don't miss Sully at all....his habits are not good for,the rookies to see.  Frankly Sully is Plain ol LAZY .......relied too much on his natural gifts and just wanted to cruise along .  I see this attitude in Young too. 

They had there pluses ....but for me the negatives out weighted the positives .

[Roy H.]

Just put forth your own thesis. You don't need to call out others in your post; it just distracts from your message.

[Roy H.]

I don't think "addition by subtraction" is the right phrase. That suggests we'd get better by doing nothing but removing those guys from the roster, and that's not true. However, I do think we can replace their contributions, and have otherwise upgraded the team.

[straightouttabahstun]

When Smart and Olynyk are back we are going to be just fine. Whether we want to accept it or not, Smart is the primary playmaker in that second unit. He gets his teammates GREAT looks and provides elite defense on the perimeter. You could tell that was missing last night

[droopdog7]

Replacing Sully with Horford is addition by addition.  Sully did what he did when he was here but I certainly wouldn't call him a detriment to the team beyond the general average ability (which is what the phrase means).

As for Turner, he is a ball dominant player but we needed that last year.  We'll see whether smart or rozier can fill the role.  Not ready to say one way or the other whether we're better in that area.

[CelticPride2016]

Just put forth your own thesis. You don't need to call out others in your post; it just distracts from your message.

I'm sorry. I thought it'd be okay since I didn't call the blogger out by name. I guess I did without using it which is passive aggression as Bitter Jim put it. Thank you for not locking the thread.

[CelticPride2016]

Just maybe keep the passive aggression to oneself

I don't know who this whole thing is about, but I find it hilarious that you included this line in a huge passive aggressive post

Sorry I did that. It was the point of reference that got me going, but I now see I could have toned down that part.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I wouldn't call losing Sully addition by subtraction, when you have Zeller taking his place and his atrocious defense and atrocious rebounding.

On Turner, in general he wasn't good for us. He was only really valuable because we needed his ballhandling with our 2nd unit. That's no longer needed, so that's a legit addition by substraction because we have other players who can step up.

Sullinger would be more dependent on how much minutes Olynyk gets and how he performs to see how much of an addition/subtraction he actually is. And will also depend if Mickey steps up into a role and how he performs.

I don't envision Zeller being the answer to the "addition by subtraction" question as far as Sully is concerned.

[CelticPride2016]

I don't think "addition by subtraction" is the right phrase. That suggests we'd get better by doing nothing but removing those guys from the roster, and that's not true. However, I do think we can replace their contributions, and have otherwise upgraded the team.

To counter your point, I agree with what ShaqAttack wrote above. I feel that Turner and Sullinger are the kind of players that put a team on a treadmill.

Maybe this is about Danny getting lucky or rewarded for taking chances. Perhaps the main reason Turner didn't return is because he was offered too much money by Portland. Looking at the box score from their game one, it looks like they got ripped off.

Maybe you are correct my use of the phrase was misguided. The addition by subtraction, to me, is that more dynamic players have replaced Sully and Turner minutes. You are definitely correct about Sully. We added Horford which makes addition through subtraction with Sully impossible to gauge.

So Turner is apparently easier to debate as addition by subtraction than Sullinger?

I am curious if and how Danny knew Rozier, Smart and Bradley would improve ball handling to the point that we could get along without Evan. Perhaps there is a fine line between luck and skill in regards to general manager.

I think letting Sullinger go in theory was addition by subtraction. We are turning into a fast team. Sully was slowing us down? We got faster simply by getting rid of the extra weight?

If we didn't sign Horford, Zizac might have been signed? I concede what ifs are a whole other ballgame. Many believe one of Danny's blind spots has been the center position. I think Sullinger as center was symbolic of that.

Sully has talent, no doubt. It looks like he could have become a better version of the projected Yabusele as skilled, not slow for bulk. Maybe Yabusele is the wrong example. Sully has skills Bass and Humphries are missing, but the latter guys were quick. Sullinger seems to be throwing away his future as an NBA player.

[CelticPride2016]

Moranis, you make a decent point. However, we were looking at Gino Time deep in the game and Brooklyn simply caught some March Madness. Golden State lost by 29 points. Maybe that was a revelation or only one game in a long season. I agree with straightouttabahstun that missing Smart and Olynyk hurts. We probably would have gotten Gino Time if they were available?

[Diggles]

I like Turner and Sulley as 6/7 guys on the bench.   They seem to be able to handle pressure and are dawgs...

IT
Bradley
Brown
Jae (wish he was a little bigger)
AL

Smart
Rozier
Turner
Sulley
Amir

Jerebko
Zellar

I wish that was our team.   

[CelticPride2016]

BudweiserCeltic - While you were posting, I came around more to your kind of thinking. Turner is easier to argue for addition by subtraction. He definitely is in regards to the salary cap.

I agree with droopdog7 that the Turner question revolves around what Rozier and Smart do as point guards. So far, that's looking so good.

Sullinger is more murky. We added Horford, so there wasn't just subtraction in play with him.

I agree Zeller has holes in his game, but guys like that still provide value for superior teams. You can't play your stars 48 minutes. Sometimes mediocre players help by eating minutes. It is a long season. I don't think Zeller gets into the game if Olynyk was available. Maybe Danny resigned Zeller as insurance for Olynyk's injury and his contract looks good as potential trade filler.