Author Topic: NBA Season 2016-2017  (Read 349713 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2016, 01:11:41 AM »

Offline mr. dee

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7828
  • Tommy Points: 597
Has Julius Randle leapfrogged Marcus Smart yet?

Nope, not at least until Randle learns to have a consistent shooting outside 5ft in the post. Randle is still one dimensional at this point while Smart is on his way for All-Defensive Team nomination.

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #106 on: October 27, 2016, 01:13:17 AM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
I have to admit, I don't like that the Lakers finally look like a good NBA team. It's worse when you live in SoCal with Lakers fans all around you too.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #107 on: October 27, 2016, 01:17:43 AM »

Offline jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47892
  • Tommy Points: 2906
Has Julius Randle leapfrogged Marcus Smart yet?

Another classic example of good stats on a bad team guy. 18 and 7 on 9-11 shooting, yet he's a -8 in +/-. He'll leapfrog Marcus when he starts making regular positive impacts on the game.

To be fair, that's what I thought about Clarkson, and here he is, making all the winning plays in this game.

Also, at some point, you have to figure that that argument doesn't always work. Those are good numbers, against actual NBA players.

Well, also look at who they're playing - the Rockets, who will most likely be a bottom defensive team of the league. But this has been the problem with Randle the entire time. He'd always put up decent to good offensive numbers, but his defense was atrocious and he didn't really help his team at all. He's also kind of a black hole when he gets the ball being overly ball-dominant and single-minded. He had 6 assists tonight, but he generally kills the ball movement by making ill-advised decisions. His ball-dominance also leads to increased turnovers, too.

I just think he's long been overrated. I honestly don't think he's going to be that much better than Brandon Bass overall. He'll be a bit better offensively and possibly on the boards, but he doesn't have the defensive versatility or skills that Bass had.

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #108 on: October 27, 2016, 01:20:11 AM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
Has Julius Randle leapfrogged Marcus Smart yet?

Another classic example of good stats on a bad team guy. 18 and 7 on 9-11 shooting, yet he's a -8 in +/-. He'll leapfrog Marcus when he starts making regular positive impacts on the game.

To be fair, that's what I thought about Clarkson, and here he is, making all the winning plays in this game.

Also, at some point, you have to figure that that argument doesn't always work. Those are good numbers, against actual NBA players.

Well, also look at who they're playing - the Rockets, who will most likely be a bottom defensive team of the league. But this has been the problem with Randle the entire time. He'd always put up decent to good offensive numbers, but his defense was atrocious and he didn't really help his team at all. He's also kind of a black hole when he gets the ball being overly ball-dominant and single-minded. He had 6 assists tonight, but he generally kills the ball movement by making ill-advised decisions. His ball-dominance also leads to increased turnovers, too.

I just think he's long been overrated. I honestly don't think he's going to be that much better than Brandon Bass overall. He'll be a bit better offensively and possibly on the boards, but he doesn't have the defensive versatility or skills that Bass had.

I've had Lakers fans tell me that Walton wants to use Randle as their version of Draymond (a passing big who can also score and rebound), so the 6 assists seems to go along with that. It'll be interesting to see whether Walton can hide their weaknesses efficiently.

What's your thoughts on Clarkson? I hate that he always gets compared to Smart since they were in the same draft class, and Lakers fans calling him much better than Smart and yadda yadda yadda whatever else they say.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #109 on: October 27, 2016, 01:23:20 AM »

Offline jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47892
  • Tommy Points: 2906
I have to admit, I don't like that the Lakers finally look like a good NBA team. It's worse when you live in SoCal with Lakers fans all around you too.

Think about it as another team that won't beat Brooklyn in the race to the bottom!  ;D

I've long said that I thought they'll be significantly improved this year and won't be worse than Brooklyn. But they're still not anywhere near us. And I think Brown is just as elite of a prospect as Russell and will probably be better overall due to his versatility and two-way potential. And I'll take the two versatility of Smart and Rozier any day over two of Clarkson, Randle, and Ingram, especially if Rozier's shooting stays above average.

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2016, 01:30:01 AM »

Offline jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47892
  • Tommy Points: 2906
Has Julius Randle leapfrogged Marcus Smart yet?

Another classic example of good stats on a bad team guy. 18 and 7 on 9-11 shooting, yet he's a -8 in +/-. He'll leapfrog Marcus when he starts making regular positive impacts on the game.

To be fair, that's what I thought about Clarkson, and here he is, making all the winning plays in this game.

Also, at some point, you have to figure that that argument doesn't always work. Those are good numbers, against actual NBA players.

Well, also look at who they're playing - the Rockets, who will most likely be a bottom defensive team of the league. But this has been the problem with Randle the entire time. He'd always put up decent to good offensive numbers, but his defense was atrocious and he didn't really help his team at all. He's also kind of a black hole when he gets the ball being overly ball-dominant and single-minded. He had 6 assists tonight, but he generally kills the ball movement by making ill-advised decisions. His ball-dominance also leads to increased turnovers, too.

I just think he's long been overrated. I honestly don't think he's going to be that much better than Brandon Bass overall. He'll be a bit better offensively and possibly on the boards, but he doesn't have the defensive versatility or skills that Bass had.

I've had Lakers fans tell me that Walton wants to use Randle as their version of Draymond (a passing big who can also score and rebound), so the 6 assists seems to go along with that. It'll be interesting to see whether Walton can hide their weaknesses efficiently.

What's your thoughts on Clarkson? I hate that he always gets compared to Smart since they were in the same draft class, and Lakers fans calling him much better than Smart and yadda yadda yadda whatever else they say.

I don't think Randle has the mentality that Draymond has. Draymond actually LIKES to distribute the ball, where I don't see that at all with Randle. And we're not even going to begin to compare them defensively lol

Clarkson is a bit different. I can see the argument that he's better than Smart, because offense is more prominently noticed than defense in the NBA, which he's been pretty good at. But I take the two-way Smart over the one-way Clark every day. I also think Clarkson is about as good as he's going to get, whereas I think Smart's ceiling is still ways away (whether or not he'll ever reach it is the ultimate question). If Smart could just get that shot down to be more consistent at an average level, he has all of the tools to be a two-way star in this league in the mold of someone like Lowry, though less of a shooter with a more well-rounded passing offensive game, along with his otherworldly defense.

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2016, 01:38:30 AM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
Has Julius Randle leapfrogged Marcus Smart yet?

Another classic example of good stats on a bad team guy. 18 and 7 on 9-11 shooting, yet he's a -8 in +/-. He'll leapfrog Marcus when he starts making regular positive impacts on the game.

To be fair, that's what I thought about Clarkson, and here he is, making all the winning plays in this game.

Also, at some point, you have to figure that that argument doesn't always work. Those are good numbers, against actual NBA players.

Well, also look at who they're playing - the Rockets, who will most likely be a bottom defensive team of the league. But this has been the problem with Randle the entire time. He'd always put up decent to good offensive numbers, but his defense was atrocious and he didn't really help his team at all. He's also kind of a black hole when he gets the ball being overly ball-dominant and single-minded. He had 6 assists tonight, but he generally kills the ball movement by making ill-advised decisions. His ball-dominance also leads to increased turnovers, too.

I just think he's long been overrated. I honestly don't think he's going to be that much better than Brandon Bass overall. He'll be a bit better offensively and possibly on the boards, but he doesn't have the defensive versatility or skills that Bass had.

I've had Lakers fans tell me that Walton wants to use Randle as their version of Draymond (a passing big who can also score and rebound), so the 6 assists seems to go along with that. It'll be interesting to see whether Walton can hide their weaknesses efficiently.

What's your thoughts on Clarkson? I hate that he always gets compared to Smart since they were in the same draft class, and Lakers fans calling him much better than Smart and yadda yadda yadda whatever else they say.

I don't think Randle has the mentality that Draymond has. Draymond actually LIKES to distribute the ball, where I don't see that at all with Randle. And we're not even going to begin to compare them defensively lol

Clarkson is a bit different. I can see the argument that he's better than Smart, because offense is more prominently noticed than defense in the NBA, which he's been pretty good at. But I take the two-way Smart over the one-way Clark every day. I also think Clarkson is about as good as he's going to get, whereas I think Smart's ceiling is still ways away (whether or not he'll ever reach it is the ultimate question). If Smart could just get that shot down to be more consistent at an average level, he has all of the tools to be a two-way star in this league in the mold of someone like Lowry, though less of a shooter with a more well-rounded passing offensive game, along with his otherworldly defense.

Good points all around.

Sorry I'm asking so much, it's just that, I'm so subconscious of whether the Lakers are building their team better than us, that I want more opinions from Celtics fans. Everyone in LA loves their Lakers, and rightfully so, but they aren't ever open to discuss player weaknesses or discuss the Celtics rebuild. And of course, it sucks when friends who are Lakers fans come up to you and boast about "the future warriors" and "KD 2.0 and steph 2.0" and "young core" this and "young core" that. Kinda gets old after awhile. So yeah, thanks, good discussion. Here's a TP, btw.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #112 on: October 27, 2016, 01:48:12 AM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
I think Russell could really turn out awesome. Too early to have any kind of opinion on Ingram, but I honestly do like brown more. Clarkson may be starting to win me over but would have to see consistently on a winning team. Randle is the toughest one for me to see being a good player on a good team. He really is like prime Eddie curry who had a few seasons with really good stats but the teams were always awful (mainly the Knicks) because of his limitations on defense and elsewhere. I still think smart gms would prefer smart over randle and casual fans will get sucked in by randle's  flashier stats and think he is better. There is a chance nance is actually a better player.

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #113 on: October 27, 2016, 01:53:13 AM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
I think Russell could really turn out awesome. Too early to have any kind of opinion on Ingram, but I honestly do like brown more. Clarkson may be starting to win me over but would have to see consistently on a winning team. Randle is the toughest one for me to see being a good player on a good team. He really is like prime Eddie curry who had a few seasons with really good stats but the teams were always awful (mainly the Knicks) because of his limitations on defense and elsewhere. I still think smart gms would prefer smart over randle and casual fans will get sucked in by randle's  flashier stats and think he is better. There is a chance nance is actually a better player.

I like Nance too. He's a solid rebounder and good defender. And, from what I saw in summer league, he is developing a nice pick and pop game from the midrange.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #114 on: October 27, 2016, 02:00:24 AM »

Offline jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47892
  • Tommy Points: 2906
Has Julius Randle leapfrogged Marcus Smart yet?

Another classic example of good stats on a bad team guy. 18 and 7 on 9-11 shooting, yet he's a -8 in +/-. He'll leapfrog Marcus when he starts making regular positive impacts on the game.

To be fair, that's what I thought about Clarkson, and here he is, making all the winning plays in this game.

Also, at some point, you have to figure that that argument doesn't always work. Those are good numbers, against actual NBA players.

Well, also look at who they're playing - the Rockets, who will most likely be a bottom defensive team of the league. But this has been the problem with Randle the entire time. He'd always put up decent to good offensive numbers, but his defense was atrocious and he didn't really help his team at all. He's also kind of a black hole when he gets the ball being overly ball-dominant and single-minded. He had 6 assists tonight, but he generally kills the ball movement by making ill-advised decisions. His ball-dominance also leads to increased turnovers, too.

I just think he's long been overrated. I honestly don't think he's going to be that much better than Brandon Bass overall. He'll be a bit better offensively and possibly on the boards, but he doesn't have the defensive versatility or skills that Bass had.

I've had Lakers fans tell me that Walton wants to use Randle as their version of Draymond (a passing big who can also score and rebound), so the 6 assists seems to go along with that. It'll be interesting to see whether Walton can hide their weaknesses efficiently.

What's your thoughts on Clarkson? I hate that he always gets compared to Smart since they were in the same draft class, and Lakers fans calling him much better than Smart and yadda yadda yadda whatever else they say.

I don't think Randle has the mentality that Draymond has. Draymond actually LIKES to distribute the ball, where I don't see that at all with Randle. And we're not even going to begin to compare them defensively lol

Clarkson is a bit different. I can see the argument that he's better than Smart, because offense is more prominently noticed than defense in the NBA, which he's been pretty good at. But I take the two-way Smart over the one-way Clark every day. I also think Clarkson is about as good as he's going to get, whereas I think Smart's ceiling is still ways away (whether or not he'll ever reach it is the ultimate question). If Smart could just get that shot down to be more consistent at an average level, he has all of the tools to be a two-way star in this league in the mold of someone like Lowry, though less of a shooter with a more well-rounded passing offensive game, along with his otherworldly defense.

Good points all around.

Sorry I'm asking so much, it's just that, I'm so subconscious of whether the Lakers are building their team better than us, that I want more opinions from Celtics fans. Everyone in LA loves their Lakers, and rightfully so, but they aren't ever open to discuss player weaknesses or discuss the Celtics rebuild. And of course, it sucks when friends who are Lakers fans come up to you and boast about "the future warriors" and "KD 2.0 and steph 2.0" and "young core" this and "young core" that. Kinda gets old after awhile. So yeah, thanks, good discussion. Here's a TP, btw.

TP back at ya.

I don't know what's worse - having to converse basketball with Lakers fans or not having anyone to converse basketball with at all lol I've lived near either St. Louis or Pittsburgh my entire life, which are both huge sports cities that don't have basketball. I'm not really a fan of any other sport, and with no real NBA team around, most people from those areas don't watch the NBA.

But I did watch the 2010 NBA Finals Game 7 with 2 Lakers fans. Wasn't a great experience for me lol

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. I do have some friends that are NBA fans, but they're Lebron James lovers. You know, the type that are die-hard Cavs fans to die-hard Heat fans back to die-hard Cavs fans. They get pretty annoying.

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #115 on: October 27, 2016, 02:06:14 AM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
Has Julius Randle leapfrogged Marcus Smart yet?

Another classic example of good stats on a bad team guy. 18 and 7 on 9-11 shooting, yet he's a -8 in +/-. He'll leapfrog Marcus when he starts making regular positive impacts on the game.

To be fair, that's what I thought about Clarkson, and here he is, making all the winning plays in this game.

Also, at some point, you have to figure that that argument doesn't always work. Those are good numbers, against actual NBA players.

Well, also look at who they're playing - the Rockets, who will most likely be a bottom defensive team of the league. But this has been the problem with Randle the entire time. He'd always put up decent to good offensive numbers, but his defense was atrocious and he didn't really help his team at all. He's also kind of a black hole when he gets the ball being overly ball-dominant and single-minded. He had 6 assists tonight, but he generally kills the ball movement by making ill-advised decisions. His ball-dominance also leads to increased turnovers, too.

I just think he's long been overrated. I honestly don't think he's going to be that much better than Brandon Bass overall. He'll be a bit better offensively and possibly on the boards, but he doesn't have the defensive versatility or skills that Bass had.

I've had Lakers fans tell me that Walton wants to use Randle as their version of Draymond (a passing big who can also score and rebound), so the 6 assists seems to go along with that. It'll be interesting to see whether Walton can hide their weaknesses efficiently.

What's your thoughts on Clarkson? I hate that he always gets compared to Smart since they were in the same draft class, and Lakers fans calling him much better than Smart and yadda yadda yadda whatever else they say.

I don't think Randle has the mentality that Draymond has. Draymond actually LIKES to distribute the ball, where I don't see that at all with Randle. And we're not even going to begin to compare them defensively lol

Clarkson is a bit different. I can see the argument that he's better than Smart, because offense is more prominently noticed than defense in the NBA, which he's been pretty good at. But I take the two-way Smart over the one-way Clark every day. I also think Clarkson is about as good as he's going to get, whereas I think Smart's ceiling is still ways away (whether or not he'll ever reach it is the ultimate question). If Smart could just get that shot down to be more consistent at an average level, he has all of the tools to be a two-way star in this league in the mold of someone like Lowry, though less of a shooter with a more well-rounded passing offensive game, along with his otherworldly defense.

Good points all around.

Sorry I'm asking so much, it's just that, I'm so subconscious of whether the Lakers are building their team better than us, that I want more opinions from Celtics fans. Everyone in LA loves their Lakers, and rightfully so, but they aren't ever open to discuss player weaknesses or discuss the Celtics rebuild. And of course, it sucks when friends who are Lakers fans come up to you and boast about "the future warriors" and "KD 2.0 and steph 2.0" and "young core" this and "young core" that. Kinda gets old after awhile. So yeah, thanks, good discussion. Here's a TP, btw.

TP back at ya.

I don't know what's worse - having to converse basketball with Lakers fans or not having anyone to converse basketball with at all lol I've lived near either St. Louis or Pittsburgh my entire life, which are both huge sports cities that don't have basketball. I'm not really a fan of any other sport, and with no real NBA team around, most people from those areas don't watch the NBA.

But I did watch the 2010 NBA Finals Game 7 with 2 Lakers fans. Wasn't a great experience for me lol

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. I do have some friends that are NBA fans, but they're Lebron James lovers. You know, the type that are die-hard Cavs fans to die-hard Heat fans back to die-hard Cavs fans. They get pretty annoying.

lol yup i know the kinda fans you're talking about.

I would love to talk with lakers fans though-if they actually decided to talk real basketball. discussing strengths and weaknesses, good and bad, not being blind to criticism of their team. the problem is, i dont know anyone like that. either they're all out "Lakers are the best, young core, future warriors" kinda fans, or very casual fans who only see the scores on their phones every so often. there's no middle ground unfortunately.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #116 on: October 27, 2016, 02:30:11 AM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2438
  • Tommy Points: 269
I think Russell could really turn out awesome. Too early to have any kind of opinion on Ingram, but I honestly do like brown more. Clarkson may be starting to win me over but would have to see consistently on a winning team. Randle is the toughest one for me to see being a good player on a good team. He really is like prime Eddie curry who had a few seasons with really good stats but the teams were always awful (mainly the Knicks) because of his limitations on defense and elsewhere. I still think smart gms would prefer smart over randle and casual fans will get sucked in by randle's  flashier stats and think he is better. There is a chance nance is actually a better player.

I think David Lee/Carlos Boozer is the accurate comp for Randle. Offensively talented but defensively inept. So much so that their teams didn't skip a beat or got better when they left.

The optimistic comparison for Randle is Zach Randolph, and Randolph was in the Lee/Boozer category until he was put on his 4th team in his 10th year, and it was total luck.

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #117 on: October 27, 2016, 02:39:56 AM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
I think Russell could really turn out awesome. Too early to have any kind of opinion on Ingram, but I honestly do like brown more. Clarkson may be starting to win me over but would have to see consistently on a winning team. Randle is the toughest one for me to see being a good player on a good team. He really is like prime Eddie curry who had a few seasons with really good stats but the teams were always awful (mainly the Knicks) because of his limitations on defense and elsewhere. I still think smart gms would prefer smart over randle and casual fans will get sucked in by randle's  flashier stats and think he is better. There is a chance nance is actually a better player.

I think David Lee/Carlos Boozer is the accurate comp for Randle. Offensively talented but defensively inept. So much so that their teams didn't skip a beat or got better when they left.

The optimistic comparison for Randle is Zach Randolph, and Randolph was in the Lee/Boozer category until he was put on his 4th team in his 10th year, and it was total luck.

Boozer was a weird player. Wasn't he like essentially out of the league by 30?

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #118 on: October 27, 2016, 02:51:55 AM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2438
  • Tommy Points: 269
I think Russell could really turn out awesome. Too early to have any kind of opinion on Ingram, but I honestly do like brown more. Clarkson may be starting to win me over but would have to see consistently on a winning team. Randle is the toughest one for me to see being a good player on a good team. He really is like prime Eddie curry who had a few seasons with really good stats but the teams were always awful (mainly the Knicks) because of his limitations on defense and elsewhere. I still think smart gms would prefer smart over randle and casual fans will get sucked in by randle's  flashier stats and think he is better. There is a chance nance is actually a better player.

I think David Lee/Carlos Boozer is the accurate comp for Randle. Offensively talented but defensively inept. So much so that their teams didn't skip a beat or got better when they left.

The optimistic comparison for Randle is Zach Randolph, and Randolph was in the Lee/Boozer category until he was put on his 4th team in his 10th year, and it was total luck.

Boozer was a weird player. Wasn't he like essentially out of the league by 30?

What do you mean weird?



And to answer your question, he was 33 last time he played. Wasn't he planning on coming back?

Re: NBA Season 2016-2017
« Reply #119 on: October 27, 2016, 02:59:54 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
Has Julius Randle leapfrogged Marcus Smart yet?

Nope, not at least until Randle learns to have a consistent shooting outside 5ft in the post. Randle is still one dimensional at this point while Smart is on his way for All-Defensive Team nomination.
One can't criticize randle's shot in a comparison to Marcus smart.  I have had Smart slightly ahead of randle, but that's mostly just me being a homer.  Randle might have surpassed him.