Author Topic: Do you think the new collective bargaining agreement will address protesting?  (Read 3980 times)

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Offline Snakehead

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I've also read where Adam Silver has publicly expressed a strong preference for players to demonstrate in a different way. I think he said standing for the flag was the "appropriate" thing to do.

There's also been rumors that a fairly strong "private" message was sent to all teams from NBA management urging them to not take part in these protests.

I like it. There are ways to show unity and protest injustice without alienating people and forcing the conversation to a different issue. I like what many teams have done by locking arms to show unity, which was originally a Celtics practice in Russell's days if I remember right.

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, as has been proven many times over throughout history.
Except for, you know, the entire history of civil rights in America. I mean, if you don't like Kaepernick, you would've hated Bill Russell. And don't even get me started on Muhammad Ali.

For sure.

People's attitudes about protesting in America these days are real sad.  More worried about "alienating" than the issues people are protesting.
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Offline Casperian

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I've said this before, and since I'm not american, you can safely ignore what I think about this topic, but generally, there is a fine, blurry line between patriotism and nationalism, and it's getting crossed when you demand from others to express their allegiance and commitment to their country.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nobody's business how much, if at all, somebody loves his country. If Kaepernick and others want to show their protest by refusing to sing the national anthem, good for them. In fact, I applaud them for their bravery to stand up for what they believe in and face public scrutiny.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 10:42:01 AM by Casperian »
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Online Donoghus

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NFL ratings are in trouble because the product is horrible right now.   Think that's the biggest factor and greater than the presidential election or the Kaep protests.  The product the league is putting out there is pretty awful.   It's oversaturated starting with the horrible Thursday night games which should be dropped all together.  Then you have the stupid London games which seem to be accomplishing nothing.  Was watching Red Zone at a friend's house yesterday.  Those 1pm games had gaffs across the board.  The number of fumbles was comical. 

Way too many flags, the current handling of pass interference especially, inconsistent refereeing,  micromanaging by the league office of the highest degree, the complete incompetence and tone deafness of the league's fine/suspension polices,  poor QB play, a lack of quality head coaches,  mediocre teams.....

There's a lot wrong with the NFL right now.  A good start would be cleaning house at 345 Park Ave.....

Unfortunately, as long as the money is rolling in, the owners will turn a blind eye to a lot of this stuff.

I'm sure the Kaep thing turns off some fans but I certainly don't think its the biggest reason for the decline in ratings.


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Offline Kuberski33

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The deeper problem for the NFL is the game is too violent because the players are too big and strong whether its through performance enhancing substances or better training - but they play in the same confined area and there are way too many injuries.  So to protect the players they have all these rules about limited contact, reduced practice time etc and they reduce the amount of coaching that can be done to prepare the teams...not to mention all the flags...and you get the current garbage.  And games on Thursday night don't help.  Jacksonville Tennessee this Thursday is sure to be another thriller.

Offline mmmmm

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So far none of the Celtic players or staff have participated in the latest National Anthem protests before any preseason game.

Umm... I guess you missed this:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2016/10/celtics_players_cross_arms_hold_hands_during_national_anthem



Which happens to pay homage to this:


(Which sort of responds to the posts asking "What would Bill Russell do?")

The Celtics also put out a whole video of the players each reciting a statement or two out of a plea by the team for civil respect, unity and caring.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Offline kraidstar

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So far none of the Celtic players or staff have participated in the latest National Anthem protests before any preseason game. If it happens I hope it doesn't become a major distraction. Drawing attention from the media and possible fan backlash could lead to discord in the locker room. 

Judging from what we are seeing in the NFL there hasn't been any fines or punishments for these actions. (It's a free country.) On the other hand, NFL TV ratings are down 10%. The most influential reason for this is thought to be the Presidential elections. Still, rumblings are being made that the kneeling protests have turned off some fans and may be influencing ratings. The networks are worried because a 10% ratings drop mean a huge loss in revenue. 

With TV revenue being of paramount importance to an NBA team's ability to pay these skyrocketing salaries I'm wondering if these types of protests will be addressed in the new NBA collective bargaining agreement. Anyone think so?  I say there will be some ruling made on this point.

I think there are other reasons.

1. Peyton Manning's retirement - guy was an ambassador for the game. Always a factor in the standings. Huge loss for the league, the Brady/Manning rivalry and narrative was enormous for this league.

2. Brady suspension - best player in the league out for 4 games. People love to hate him. They love to watch him. The league shot itself in the foot trying to undercut his credibility. The Pats mean everything to this league right now with Peyton's retirement. It also doesn't help alienating the Pats' huge fanbase.

3. Watered-down league - well, we have parity. Who outside of the Patriots looks like a real contender right now? I see a lot of muddled play around the league. Not a lot of fun teams to watch, not many teams to "get behind."

4. Poor QB play - Folks love watching good QB's battle. Brady out for 4 games, including a huge Sunday night game against Arizona. Oops. Peyton gone. Cam missing time. Ben missing time, the league losing that Ben/Brady matchup was very bad. Rodgers struggling. Brees struggling. Rivers is a joke. There are some good young QB's but they haven't accomplished enough to get noticed yet.

5. Horrible prime time matchups - how many times do we need to see the Redskins playing the Bears? Too many horrible big market teams (NFC east in particular) that no-one outside of their market wants to watch. Monday Night football is an effing joke. At best you get one good team, and they are usually playing at home for a big fat blowout. Thursday night football is even worse. Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered.

6. Image problem - maybe for some it's kneeling for the anthem. I'd say that's a small percentage. I think it's more the NFL's overall brazen greed and hypocrisy. Goodell as a moral compass is a joke. They don't care about women, the flag, or anything. It's not that these things happen, it's that the league's position is so blatantly calculated and fraudulent. The military advertising/fake patriotism, all of it. What a sham. They are out of touch even for a Big Business. At some point all this nonsense makes an impact.

Offline celticsclay

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I think it is kind of a typical NFL fashion to not acknowledge that the protests probably are hurting the ratings. I don't really get why people would suddenly stop watching the games over this, but they are there and have been expressing it regularly all over comment boards and twitter. Some of these excuses that have been thrown out seem pretty weak to me.

People really are going to watch less games because Peyton Manning isn't playing? Maybe the 1 game a year he played Brady there was a ratings bump for the matchup, but are people forgetting he was a noodle armed quarterback that was involved in highly boring games all of last year? In addition to 6 games missed he had almost twice as many interceptions as touchdowns last year and rarely even threw the ball downfield. We are meant to believe him not playing is hurting ratings?

Online Donoghus

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I think it is kind of a typical NFL fashion to not acknowledge that the protests probably are hurting the ratings. I don't really get why people would suddenly stop watching the games over this, but they are there and have been expressing it regularly all over comment boards and twitter. Some of these excuses that have been thrown out seem pretty weak to me.

People really are going to watch less games because Peyton Manning isn't playing? Maybe the 1 game a year he played Brady there was a ratings bump for the matchup, but are people forgetting he was a noodle armed quarterback that was involved in highly boring games all of last year? In addition to 6 games missed he had almost twice as many interceptions as touchdowns last year and rarely even threw the ball downfield. We are meant to believe him not playing is hurting ratings?

Name recognition. 

Regardless, of his play towards the end, his name was easily recognizable to casual viewers and pulled in eyeballs.  No matter what, Brady v. Manning was going to pull in monster TV ratings.  Manning versus just about any big name QB would.    The star QB matchups are pretty sparse these days.  NFL just missed out on Brady v. Big Ben.   Pats have an NFC West interconference matchup this season so Brady v. Wilson will be about the best they get there.  NFL shot themselves in the foot with the Brady suspension so missed out on Brady v. Palmer.    NFL will get a Rodgers v. Luck matchup in a few weeks.  Think the best remaining matchup for Brees is probably Newton but CAR is down this year so that hurts. 

It doesn't help where this next generation of QBs is currently pretty spotty.   


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Offline Snakehead

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I think anyone saying NFL ratings drops are about protests is a joke.

There are a bunch of real bad teams right now.  Competitiveness is not great across the league.  They stretch out football too much across the week, sometimes with two Monday games and the Thursday game, which should absolutely not exist.  They also are willing to put awful games in prime time Thursday, Sunday, Monday night slots and expect them to get ratings regardless when that's just not the case.  The worst teams in the league should never be playing in prime time.  Sorry, tough.  These days you can see so many games that it isn't a necessity to watch whatever game they put on at night.  You can see team X loads of other times throughout the year.

Then all the secondary stuff to make you dislike football like injury concerns and how ineptly the league is run compared to the NBA for sure.  They change what a catch is every year.

And in addition, the league got gigantic but an assumption that it would only grow and never falter, when clearly it has been poorly run, is rather insane.  When the NFL was talking about expanding internationally all the time when almost no one cares about the game internationally and there was this blind assumption it would just grow and they would get it, I knew this kind of result was bound to happen.


I've said this before, and since I'm not american, you can safely ignore what I think about this topic, but generally, there is a fine, blurry line between patriotism and nationalism, and it's getting crossed when you demand from others to express their allegiance and commitment to their country.


You should not be ignored, you are very right on.  I have come to the conclusion that the majority of Americans can't make this distinction at all, sadly.  Goes in line with a lot of other things going on... jump starting Cold War hysteria and animosity just for a few points in an election being another example.  There is a whole lot of Nationalism at work in this country and they love to call it "Patriotism" instead and question anyone who thinks otherwise, as a Russian spy or anti-American or what have you.  But then celebrate Muhammad Ali when he dies as a great American.  It is nuts.
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Offline Bobshot

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I think the NFL has its own set of problems aside from a few guys using the Anthem as a protest vehicle. I watch these games on TV all the time, and frankly, the violence is appalling. Particularly the head hunting. The refs don't call it enough (I've saw Newton repeatedly assaulted in the head by Broncos defenders, and only one call by refs that was negated when he threw a pass out of bounds as he was bludgeoned.)It's this kind of crap that turns people off.

It's obvious the helmuts aren't offering sufficient protection, and maybe never have. I know they're working on better helmuts, but it's a big secret in the media.

I think Goodell's credibility is also hurting the NFL--he has to go, and he probably will go soon.First that deflate gate nonsense, which seemed like a hollow effort to help his ex-team, the Jets. Still trying to get back at Belichick for deserting them. Plus his latest controversy with that Giants kicker who abused his wife.

The NBA problems pale compared to the NFL. At least these guys aren't beating each other up on the court. I don't think protesting has any legs, though I would expect a liberal point of view from Silver.



Offline D Dub

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So far none of the Celtic players or staff have participated in the latest National Anthem protests before any preseason game. If it happens I hope it doesn't become a major distraction. Drawing attention from the media and possible fan backlash could lead to discord in the locker room. 

Judging from what we are seeing in the NFL there hasn't been any fines or punishments for these actions. (It's a free country.) On the other hand, NFL TV ratings are down 10%. The most influential reason for this is thought to be the Presidential elections. Still, rumblings are being made that the kneeling protests have turned off some fans and may be influencing ratings. The networks are worried because a 10% ratings drop mean a huge loss in revenue. 

With TV revenue being of paramount importance to an NBA team's ability to pay these skyrocketing salaries I'm wondering if these types of protests will be addressed in the new NBA collective bargaining agreement. Anyone think so?  I say there will be some ruling made on this point.

I think there are other reasons.

1. Peyton Manning's retirement - guy was an ambassador for the game. Always a factor in the standings. Huge loss for the league, the Brady/Manning rivalry and narrative was enormous for this league.

2. Brady suspension - best player in the league out for 4 games. People love to hate him. They love to watch him. The league shot itself in the foot trying to undercut his credibility. The Pats mean everything to this league right now with Peyton's retirement. It also doesn't help alienating the Pats' huge fanbase.

3. Watered-down league - well, we have parity. Who outside of the Patriots looks like a real contender right now? I see a lot of muddled play around the league. Not a lot of fun teams to watch, not many teams to "get behind."

4. Poor QB play - Folks love watching good QB's battle. Brady out for 4 games, including a huge Sunday night game against Arizona. Oops. Peyton gone. Cam missing time. Ben missing time, the league losing that Ben/Brady matchup was very bad. Rodgers struggling. Brees struggling. Rivers is a joke. There are some good young QB's but they haven't accomplished enough to get noticed yet.

5. Horrible prime time matchups - how many times do we need to see the Redskins playing the Bears? Too many horrible big market teams (NFC east in particular) that no-one outside of their market wants to watch. Monday Night football is an effing joke. At best you get one good team, and they are usually playing at home for a big fat blowout. Thursday night football is even worse. Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered.

6. Image problem - maybe for some it's kneeling for the anthem. I'd say that's a small percentage. I think it's more the NFL's overall brazen greed and hypocrisy. Goodell as a moral compass is a joke. They don't care about women, the flag, or anything. It's not that these things happen, it's that the league's position is so blatantly calculated and fraudulent. The military advertising/fake patriotism, all of it. What a sham. They are out of touch even for a Big Business. At some point all this nonsense makes an impact.

Agree especially on number 6.

The healthcare issue for retired players is also a huge factor, IMO.  We've seen the NBPA take steps to ensure retirees healthcare, partly because of how public and terrible the NFL's problems have become. 

I know plenty of people who enjoy the game, but refuse to turn it on because they don't want to support a league that treats its employees so poorly. 

I gave up on it years ago, and now, when I find myself around a tv showing football --- I'm blown away with how much time is spent idle, there really is very little action considering the time commitment required to digest an entire game. 

Offline celticsclay

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I think anyone saying NFL ratings drops are about protests is a joke.

There are a bunch of real bad teams right now.  Competitiveness is not great across the league.  They stretch out football too much across the week, sometimes with two Monday games and the Thursday game, which should absolutely not exist.  They also are willing to put awful games in prime time Thursday, Sunday, Monday night slots and expect them to get ratings regardless when that's just not the case.  The worst teams in the league should never be playing in prime time.  Sorry, tough.  These days you can see so many games that it isn't a necessity to watch whatever game they put on at night.  You can see team X loads of other times throughout the year.

Then all the secondary stuff to make you dislike football like injury concerns and how ineptly the league is run compared to the NBA for sure.  They change what a catch is every year.

And in addition, the league got gigantic but an assumption that it would only grow and never falter, when clearly it has been poorly run, is rather insane.  When the NFL was talking about expanding internationally all the time when almost no one cares about the game internationally and there was this blind assumption it would just grow and they would get it, I knew this kind of result was bound to happen.


I've said this before, and since I'm not american, you can safely ignore what I think about this topic, but generally, there is a fine, blurry line between patriotism and nationalism, and it's getting crossed when you demand from others to express their allegiance and commitment to their country.


You should not be ignored, you are very right on.  I have come to the conclusion that the majority of Americans can't make this distinction at all, sadly.  Goes in line with a lot of other things going on... jump starting Cold War hysteria and animosity just for a few points in an election being another example.  There is a whole lot of Nationalism at work in this country and they love to call it "Patriotism" instead and question anyone who thinks otherwise, as a Russian spy or anti-American or what have you.  But then celebrate Muhammad Ali when he dies as a great American.  It is nuts.

Not sure why you would say someone is a joke because they believe it is possible. I am not saying I would ever not boycott the NFL. I don't really even view it as a bad thing. However, sticking your head in the ground and acting like it isn't possible seems pretty silly to me.

I just ran a social media query  the phrase #boycottnfl was tweeted over 11k thousand times over the the last 5 days and had 38 million impressions. If you take the view that there are probably lots of people that are just kind of less interested and not everyone is on twitter, it suggests there is a pretty sizable group of people that are agitated over this issue and have made a point to not support the NFL over it.

Why do you find it so hard to believe?

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I'd hope not.

As long as it's done tastefully and respectfully I see no issues with it - just as I see no issues with what Colin Kaepernick is doing.

And I'm an honorably retired U.S. Navy Veteran as well.

Colin has gone on record many times stating that he means NO disrespect to Active Duty AND retired military personnel and I believe him.

I do hope that he (and others like him) are actually putting their protests in action, though.

I also love what our Celtics are doing - it's their choice.

Each incident that happens in this country seems personal, to me. While I fear for each Police Officer out there in uniform (as I once wore a uniform as well) I do fear more so for my sons - one of which called me in near tears right after the Louisiana incident.

As I've stated before in another thread - I think titled "What are the biggest threats to the United States" or something like that - my answers were "Lack of EMPATHY and ignorance."

Quite simply the conversations I have with my sons about things in this country are conversations that are NOT held by others. If I don't have such talks I'm failing them as a Father.

I love this country. Always have, always will. But my perceptions of things are different than others. It won't make me stop believing that things won't get better, but until then there should be freedom to protest as long as it's done tastefully.

Offline Alleyoopster

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