Author Topic: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd  (Read 20871 times)

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Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2016, 05:17:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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It seems unreal that teams aren't willing to basically trade for one of these players for free. I guarantee Danny isn't asking for anything in return for these guys, only like a top-55 protected 2nd, which will probably never even convert over to us.

I can't believe even Philly wouldn't want one of the two young shooters, unless he's asking for a bigger deal from Philly due to our context with them.
Philly has too many players as is and they are better than Hunter and Young. 

A team like Cleveland that has roster spots would have made more sense if Cleveland wasn't so far into luxury tax range.
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Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2016, 05:30:14 PM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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The draft is a roll of the dice, even at #15, but especially at #28. You win some and you lose some. And it's not even clear who these guys are going to end up being for their careers. It's just that the Celtics have too much talent at the back-end of their rowter (plus in stashes). That's a reason to be grateful, not a reason to bash Ainge.
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Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2016, 05:36:03 PM »

Offline saltlover

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It seems unreal that teams aren't willing to basically trade for one of these players for free. I guarantee Danny isn't asking for anything in return for these guys, only like a top-55 protected 2nd, which will probably never even convert over to us.

I can't believe even Philly wouldn't want one of the two young shooters, unless he's asking for a bigger deal from Philly due to our context with them.
Philly has too many players as is and they are better than Hunter and Young. 

A team like Cleveland that has roster spots would have made more sense if Cleveland wasn't so far into luxury tax range.

Washington makes the most sense to me.  They've only got 12 guaranteed contracts, and are currently looking at taking two or maybe three undrafted rookies to start the season.  They also could use a wing prospect.

Young can't work due to salaries, but Hunter could be traded for the non-guaranteed Jarell Eddie.

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2016, 05:39:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The draft is a roll of the dice, even at #15, but especially at #28. You win some and you lose some. And it's not even clear who these guys are going to end up being for their careers. It's just that the Celtics have too much talent at the back-end of their rowter (plus in stashes). That's a reason to be grateful, not a reason to bash Ainge.
28 is a definite crap shoot, but 17 has been pretty good.  You expect a player that hits a second contract in that spot and there have been a number of borderline all stars from that spot.  I mean in the 10 drafts before Young, only Sean Williams was a bust and it includes Josh Smith, Danny Granger, Roy Hibbert, Jrue Holiday, and Iman Shumpert.  Heck our own Tyler Zeller was the 17th pick.  The guy the year before Young was Dennis Schroder and Rashad Vaughn (last year's 17) has already played more games than Young.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/draft_finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=&year_max=&round_min=&round_max=&pick_overall_min=17&pick_overall_max=17&franch_id=&college_id=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&is_active=&is_hof=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=ws
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Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2016, 05:41:09 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2016, 06:19:10 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Frankly

Danny is a better Pirate than a treasure hunter


Other words


He is better at stealing others richs than finding his own.



I guess it does not matter how you end up with great players ,  just as long as you do.

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2016, 06:19:17 PM »

Online kraidstar

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If we are hearing it in the media, I think it's because they haven't been able to get a 2nd for either guy.

Not really sure where either is a fit, maybe New Orleans or Philadelphia.

If teams know they are going to cut one then why not just wait?
On the off chance a team wanted to make sure they are the ones that get Hunter or Young they may want to make a trade :P

There are several reasons teams might want to trade for Young/Hunter.

If multiple teams place a claim on a waived player, worst record gets the player. So if the Warriors wanted Hunter/Young, they'd be at severe risk of getting beaten by a lesser team in the waiver process due to their good record.

Teams that are over the cap can't claim these guys on waivers. They risk losing them to teams that are under the cap, unless they have a trade exception instead.

And if Young/Hunter clear waivers, a team that is over the cap also has no cap space to sign them for more than a minimum deal unless they want to use a mid-level exception etc.


per the CBA:
A team can claim a player on waivers only if one of the following is true:

- The team is far enough under the salary cap to fit the player's entire salary.
- The team has a Disabled Player exception for at least the player's salary (see question number 25), and the player is on the last season of his contract.
- The team has a trade exception for at least the player's salary (see question number 85).
- The player has a minimum salary contract (one or two seasons at the minimum salary, with no bonuses of any kind).

If a team makes a successful waiver claim, it acquires the player and his existing contract, and pays the remainder of his salary -- the waiving team is relieved of all responsibility for the player. There is a fee of $1,000, payable to the league office, for claiming a player on waivers. If more than one team tries to claim a player on waivers, the team with the worst record gets him.



http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q65
We're talking Young and Hunter here.  Who in their right mind would offer them more than minimum?

Just because they're the 15th/16th-best guys on this club doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. The Nets and Sixers might want to take a flyer on them, and paying more than the minimum might be the only way to do so, as you might have other teams over the cap who would like to add a prospect shooter.

The minimum salary for 2nd/3rd year guys is like $800k. That is chump change, it's not crazy to have a few teams gambling that they might improve. Especially a team like the Nets, that has almost no other ways of improving themselves long-term.

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2016, 06:20:38 PM »

Offline clover

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It seems unreal that teams aren't willing to basically trade for one of these players for free. I guarantee Danny isn't asking for anything in return for these guys, only like a top-55 protected 2nd, which will probably never even convert over to us.

I can't believe even Philly wouldn't want one of the two young shooters, unless he's asking for a bigger deal from Philly due to our context with them.
Philly has too many players as is and they are better than Hunter and Young. 

A team like Cleveland that has roster spots would have made more sense if Cleveland wasn't so far into luxury tax range.

Washington makes the most sense to me.  They've only got 12 guaranteed contracts, and are currently looking at taking two or maybe three undrafted rookies to start the season.  They also could use a wing prospect.

Young can't work due to salaries, but Hunter could be traded for the non-guaranteed Jarell Eddie.

Interesting.

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2016, 06:21:54 PM »

Offline clover

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Frankly

Danny is a better Pirate than a treasure hunter


Other words


He is better at stealing others richs than finding his own.



I guess it does not matter how you end up with great players ,  just as long as you do.

I'd say MS, TR, KO and JB is looking like a pretty good harvest for his last four top picks.

That is, I think Danny is both a hunter and gatherer.

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2016, 07:08:17 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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If we are hearing it in the media, I think it's because they haven't been able to get a 2nd for either guy.

Not really sure where either is a fit, maybe New Orleans or Philadelphia.

If teams know they are going to cut one then why not just wait?
On the off chance a team wanted to make sure they are the ones that get Hunter or Young they may want to make a trade :P

There are several reasons teams might want to trade for Young/Hunter.

If multiple teams place a claim on a waived player, worst record gets the player. So if the Warriors wanted Hunter/Young, they'd be at severe risk of getting beaten by a lesser team in the waiver process due to their good record.

Teams that are over the cap can't claim these guys on waivers. They risk losing them to teams that are under the cap, unless they have a trade exception instead.

And if Young/Hunter clear waivers, a team that is over the cap also has no cap space to sign them for more than a minimum deal unless they want to use a mid-level exception etc.


per the CBA:
A team can claim a player on waivers only if one of the following is true:

- The team is far enough under the salary cap to fit the player's entire salary.
- The team has a Disabled Player exception for at least the player's salary (see question number 25), and the player is on the last season of his contract.
- The team has a trade exception for at least the player's salary (see question number 85).
- The player has a minimum salary contract (one or two seasons at the minimum salary, with no bonuses of any kind).

If a team makes a successful waiver claim, it acquires the player and his existing contract, and pays the remainder of his salary -- the waiving team is relieved of all responsibility for the player. There is a fee of $1,000, payable to the league office, for claiming a player on waivers. If more than one team tries to claim a player on waivers, the team with the worst record gets him.



http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q65
We're talking Young and Hunter here.  Who in their right mind would offer them more than minimum?

Just because they're the 15th/16th-best guys on this club doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. The Nets and Sixers might want to take a flyer on them, and paying more than the minimum might be the only way to do so, as you might have other teams over the cap who would like to add a prospect shooter.

The minimum salary for 2nd/3rd year guys is like $800k. That is chump change, it's not crazy to have a few teams gambling that they might improve. Especially a team like the Nets, that has almost no other ways of improving themselves long-term.
If you trade for Young, you've got to pick up his 4th option which at 2.8mil is not chump change.  Hunter's 3rd year option is a more reasonable 1.2mil.  The problem is Young and Hunter haven't done anything to deserve being traded for.  The Nets and Sixers are better off waiting to see who everyone releases. 

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2016, 07:16:00 PM »

Offline TrueFan

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Frankly

Danny is a better Pirate than a treasure hunter


Other words


He is better at stealing others richs than finding his own.



I guess it does not matter how you end up with great players ,  just as long as you do.

I'd say MS, TR, KO and JB is looking like a pretty good harvest for his last four top picks.

That is, I think Danny is both a hunter and gatherer.
I'm with you. Ainge comes out looking like a genius picking Rozier at 16.

Drafting Rozier should definitely quiet the Danny Ainge draft critics for a while.

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2016, 07:21:10 PM »

Offline TrueFan

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call Doc Rivers to take one of these guys.

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2016, 07:22:07 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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It seems unreal that teams aren't willing to basically trade for one of these players for free. I guarantee Danny isn't asking for anything in return for these guys, only like a top-55 protected 2nd, which will probably never even convert over to us.

I can't believe even Philly wouldn't want one of the two young shooters, unless he's asking for a bigger deal from Philly due to our context with them.
Philly has too many players as is and they are better than Hunter and Young. 

A team like Cleveland that has roster spots would have made more sense if Cleveland wasn't so far into luxury tax range.

Hunter and Young could play in Brooklyn,  LA or SAC.
I'd rather see them included in a larger deal for a shot blocking big.
"Just do what you do best."  -Red Auerbach-

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2016, 07:27:54 PM »

Offline colincb

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nm
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 04:11:44 PM by colincb »

Re: Woj: Celtics offering Young or Hunter for a 2nd
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2016, 07:32:02 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Shocked that Danny doesn't hit on all his picks.

More of a roster space problem, than a problem with his picks.