Do you need to shoot the three to "Space" the floor

[Snakehead]

Only in this 3pt chucking era.  They didn't have problems with spacing in the Bird/Magic era.  They actually could play two big men together and be quite effective offensively.  I'd say trying to turn Sully into a 3pt shooter when his best attribute is offensive rebounding was the stupidest thing.  Smart jacking 3s is probably a close 2nd.

The game has changed.

Yes.  I love 80s basketball.  Yet, the last several years have been some of the most fun NBA basketball I've ever watched. 

The game was awesome then talent wise.

One thing I will say is there used to be more talented bigs then than right now, but I think we may be getting back to that.  That alone can shape the balance (which is way underrated in this disucssion, people only talk rules but players matter a lot and there are peaks and valleys especially with big men).  With better bigs, things can swing back some. 

However, in the end the 3 is here to stay.  Players like Bird would thrive too today.  He would be taking, and making, way more threes.

[gift]

You don't need to shoot 3's to space the floor. But since you are spacing the floor anyway and getting open shots from outside, it is better to have those shots be 3's than 2's.

[Evantime34]

With the way the rules currently are you absolutely have to shoot 3's to space the floor. If a player only have deep 2 point range instead of 3 point range their defender can take extra steps into the paint to help which makes it difficult to drive for other players.

For those siting that in the past teams didn't shoot as many 3's and had fine spacing, you have to know that the rules are different now than they were then. In the past illegal defense was more restrictive which made it more difficult to help and thus easier to score in iso.

Older people love to comment on how their aren't any good post scorers in the league anymore, that is because it is now much easier to run creative double teams at players and thus the post up has become a low percentage shot so players focus on improving their game in other ways.

In the end the answer to this is absolutely. Of the to 11 teams in 3 point shots attempted, 10 made the playoffs this is no coincidence. The Cavs and the Warriors were both top 3 in 3 pointers attempted and 3 point rate.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Shooting threes is not only about spacing the floor, but it is about efficiency. Believe it or not, Smart shooting 4 threes a game at 25% is still worth more than him shooting 4 twenty footers a game at 35%. When you break it down, each 3 attempt is worth .75 points, but each 2 attempt is worth .7 points per game.

On top of that, your offensive player is more spaced by a few feet, meaning the defender is typically more spaced, stretching the integrity of the defense. That is all that Isaiah Thomas may need to break down the defense.

[Snakehead]

Older people love to comment on how their aren't any good post scorers in the league anymore, that is because it is now much easier to run creative double teams at players and thus the post up has become a low percentage shot so players focus on improving their game in other ways.

I definitely understand how you think this is a factor (and I agree that it is a factor, not only because of how the double teams work but because guys are more athletic and can cover the ground to double team and to recover off a double team faster now than they could before), but I don't possibly understand how people could completely discount changes in individual talent levels over time in a sport.

[vgulab]

Spacing the floor is about making shots. Doesn't matter from where. When a man gets open look, doesn't matter where, he must take the shot and make the shot. If players are able to make shots that means the defense will spread. And that is how i understand floor spacing.

[Donoghus]

It helps but good ball movement will accomplish the same thing.

[PhoSita]

Spacing is created by players who command defensive attention.  Players with "gravity."

That can be a dangerous post player, a la Shaq, or a deadly rim-runner, a la Amare.


The easiest way for a player to create space on the floor is by being a threat to hit an open three pointer and then simply standing outside the three point line.

Spacing via shooting ability is also the easiest way to "stack" the spacing effects of multiple players.


One great post scorer creates space by attracting defensive attention down low, but if you have two of them, only one can really operate down there at a time, so the other just clogs things up.

Same story with a rim-runner, or an isolation scorer.


So long as a player is enough of a threat that the defense has to pay attention to them at all times, they can create space.  But the easiest way to do it, especially in the context of a full lineup, is with three point shooters.



However, a team with only good outside shooters and nobody who is a threat to drive can still be shut down because they're being smothered on the perimeter.  Just look at the Warriors toward the end of Game 7 of the 2016 Finals.  Curry didn't have the legs to drive, and nobody else had the confidence or the matchup to try to take it to the rack, so they lost on a series of bricked threes.


You need to have inside and outside elements to your offense to create space.  All you need is one guy who can attack open space between the three point line and the basket, though, and then you can have the rest of your offensive players drift outside to keep the lane open.



To answer the OP's essential question here, no, you can't really "space" the floor just by having quality mid-range shooters.  Not in today's NBA.  Opponents will pack the paint and dare you to live or die by those long twos.  They will be happy to give you that shot even if you're pretty good at it.


I think the mid-range shot is best seen as a weapon for busting modern defenses by taking advantage of those shots.  If you have multiple guys that can shoot 45-50% on two pointers, you can punish opponents for leaving those shots open.

Still, the math is always going to be in favor of defending the paint and the three point line and living with the results if your opponent gets hot from mid-range.

[Evantime34]

Older people love to comment on how their aren't any good post scorers in the league anymore, that is because it is now much easier to run creative double teams at players and thus the post up has become a low percentage shot so players focus on improving their game in other ways.

I definitely understand how you think this is a factor (and I agree that it is a factor, not only because of how the double teams work but because guys are more athletic and can cover the ground to double team and to recover off a double team faster now than they could before), but I don't possibly understand how people could completely discount changes in individual talent levels over time in a sport.

I just don't buy the old head's narrative that the post up would be an effective scoring method in today's game if young players just learned how to play in the post.

Older people love to denigrate the current crop of players because the game looks different now than it did when they first started following it. Pointing to how things have gone in the past when rules were different as evidence that the game can be played like it was in the past is foolish.

[PhoSita]

I think it's generally easier to develop a 3-and-D type skillset rather than a back to the basket skillset, and players know that the path to stardom these days is to be both a shooter and a playmaker, regardless of position.

My guess is that's why for the most part the only guys that come into the league with advanced post-games are guys without the physical ability to stand out without one.

[Evantime34]

I think it's generally easier to develop a 3-and-D type skillset rather than a back to the basket skillset, and players know that the path to stardom these days is to be both a shooter and a playmaker, regardless of position.

My guess is that's why for the most part the only guys that come into the league with advanced post-games are guys without the physical ability to stand out without one.

I'm actually surprised more players don't come into the nba with advanced post games. Unlike the NBA, the NCAA has made it easier to score in the post since they don't allow the defender to use their fore arm when defending the post (don't get me started on how ridiculous that is)

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Not if you're a devastating driver (Westbrook, Lebron) or a rim running big who can clear the lane (Drummond, DeAndre).

But there are a total of MAYBE 10 of those guys in the NBA, and for everybody else you do ahve to create space with the ability to shoot.

People used Iverson as an example, but he wasn't spacing anything. For one, he was never off ball. And secondly, the guy was just so talented he finished at an unreal level of difficulty, got to the rim/FT line at an absurd rate, and still wasn't all that efficient.

[Celtics18]

I think of KG during his Celtic days as an example of a great floor spacer who didn't have three point range.  His consistency from about 16 feet out to the three point line at the top of the key really helped open up the lane for Rondo and Pierce.

[walker834]

Bird was so tall and creative with or without the basketball.  I don't think that would change much in todays game.  He would post up people and shoot over them and was a great passer in the post and just a great passer period.  The game is so different now it's hard to compare but he was so creative in how he would score.  And he was tall enough where he could shoot over people. 

I think in todays game it seems like SF's are shorter and more about speed or physicality and maybe both.

He might struggle against some of the more athletic defensive SF's today.  Bird vs Kawii would be interesting.

Bird didn't have issues with Dominique though.

In what way would Bird's game change?  just more 3's?   I don't think he suddenly loses his creativity.

[Bobshot]

The Celtics won most of their championships in the 50s and 60s without the 3P shot. Pop tries to copy the old Celtics teams, and the Spurs don't rely that much on 3 pointers. It's about distributing the ball for the best shot, plus getting easy shots with the fast break transition game. The closer you are to the basket, the higher the shot percentage.

Most of the people in basketball today running things weren't around before the 3P shot.

One of the strengths of the current Celtics is their defense creates easy shots. Steals are fast break opportunities.