Author Topic: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?  (Read 8954 times)

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Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2016, 03:48:38 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Rozier's outstanding preseason and summer league performances show the postseason experience is paying off.  I do think he will play, a backup role, to Isaiah, just like Smart did last year, so around 27 minutes.  Isaiah won't be affected this year or after resigning.  If after Rozier overtakes or equals Isaiah then moving on would be beneficial. But if my intuition holds true, Isaiah in couple years, not as athletic and therefore defensively liable, is forced into the sixth man role.  Now, the salary cap may interrupt that logic, so it will depend on the contract signed after this year.  Most don't agree with his sixth man fit now he is our superstar but I suspect that Ainge  had him in mind for just that.

He's not getting 27 minutes a game. He'll be lucky to even get 20. There's just not the minutes there for him,and he's hardly even a defensive upgrade over IT.

People are just overreacting to an early preseason performance once again. It happens every year on a number of teams across the league. When the season starts, he'll come back down to Earth, and all of this will seem like exaggerated ridiculousness like it always does.

Terry has been good, but people are really exaggerating and reaching with some of this Rozier stuff.

He played better than Smart this preseason. How about tubby learns how to make an open 3 before you compare him to Rozier.

How about Rozier actually earns and plays serious minutes in the regular season before comparing him to Smart?  ::) See how that works?

I find it hilarious that you keep hyping a player who hasn't even earned significant minutes in a real NBA season yet lol

How am I hyping him up? You're the one claiming everyone thinks Rozier is a star. It's just plainly obvious Smart is Tony Allen. It's kind of ridiculous that you think it's hard for a player to leapfrog a role player. I mean can you provide any evidence Smart is more than Tony Allen right now? Or can you explain his garbage summer league stats?

You can't label someone's career arc after two seasons of him playing out of position as an off-the-ball shooter. With the absence of Turner, the second unit now being Smart's to lead as the primary ball-handler, and the fact that most young players finally come into their own in the third season, this season will be a much more evaluative season for him due to allowing him to excel (or fail) in his ideal position. We've already seen how much better he is as an overall player in this role (outside of shooting).

Unless something catastrophic happens, this season will largely determine his likely career arc as either a potential star or a role player in this league. You just simply can't really gauge Smart's ultimate ceiling off of the last two years. That'd be like playing IT as our defensive stopper and then judging his ceiling off of that ability.

But you're doing the same thing with Rozier, that's my main point. You've given Smart a lot more slack then Rozier. I really hope Smart proves me wrong because I love his intangibles, but I personally am not seeing what you are seeing. I don't think he will prove to be a star. I guess we will find out soon enough.

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2016, 03:55:05 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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I'm just excited for the season to start.  I think you really have to have not watched Smart play at all in the preseason to think his game hasn't hugely improved in all areas outside of three point shooting.  His playmaking and floor vision looked great, he looked very improved off the pick and roll, his pull up in the midrange was a real threat, and he showed off nice floaters and was more aggressive into the paint.  This is not Tony Allen we are dealing with here.

You misunderstand me my friend. First I was clearly joking about the 2k comment. It was to lighten the mood. Second, I have seen improvement too. But imo there is nothing he can do about his lack of first step and his weak vertical.

Again, I hope Smart proves me wrong because he is very likable.

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2016, 04:17:40 PM »

Online jpotter33

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Rozier's outstanding preseason and summer league performances show the postseason experience is paying off.  I do think he will play, a backup role, to Isaiah, just like Smart did last year, so around 27 minutes.  Isaiah won't be affected this year or after resigning.  If after Rozier overtakes or equals Isaiah then moving on would be beneficial. But if my intuition holds true, Isaiah in couple years, not as athletic and therefore defensively liable, is forced into the sixth man role.  Now, the salary cap may interrupt that logic, so it will depend on the contract signed after this year.  Most don't agree with his sixth man fit now he is our superstar but I suspect that Ainge  had him in mind for just that.

He's not getting 27 minutes a game. He'll be lucky to even get 20. There's just not the minutes there for him,and he's hardly even a defensive upgrade over IT.

People are just overreacting to an early preseason performance once again. It happens every year on a number of teams across the league. When the season starts, he'll come back down to Earth, and all of this will seem like exaggerated ridiculousness like it always does.

Terry has been good, but people are really exaggerating and reaching with some of this Rozier stuff.

He played better than Smart this preseason. How about tubby learns how to make an open 3 before you compare him to Rozier.

How about Rozier actually earns and plays serious minutes in the regular season before comparing him to Smart?  ::) See how that works?

I find it hilarious that you keep hyping a player who hasn't even earned significant minutes in a real NBA season yet lol

How am I hyping him up? You're the one claiming everyone thinks Rozier is a star. It's just plainly obvious Smart is Tony Allen. It's kind of ridiculous that you think it's hard for a player to leapfrog a role player. I mean can you provide any evidence Smart is more than Tony Allen right now? Or can you explain his garbage summer league stats?

You can't label someone's career arc after two seasons of him playing out of position as an off-the-ball shooter. With the absence of Turner, the second unit now being Smart's to lead as the primary ball-handler, and the fact that most young players finally come into their own in the third season, this season will be a much more evaluative season for him due to allowing him to excel (or fail) in his ideal position. We've already seen how much better he is as an overall player in this role (outside of shooting).

Unless something catastrophic happens, this season will largely determine his likely career arc as either a potential star or a role player in this league. You just simply can't really gauge Smart's ultimate ceiling off of the last two years. That'd be like playing IT as our defensive stopper and then judging his ceiling off of that ability.

But you're doing the same thing with Rozier, that's my main point. You've given Smart a lot more slack then Rozier. I really hope Smart proves me wrong because I love his intangibles, but I personally am not seeing what you are seeing. I don't think he will prove to be a star. I guess we will find out soon enough.

How am I doing the same thing with Rozier? I've readily said that he'll make a leap, and I'm very excited about that due to its ability to help the C's.

However, I'm just advising easing back on the reins a bit due to his play in the summer league and preseason. People are getting carried away with expecting him to make some sort of major leap and him developing into some kind of star in the next couple of years, which just isn't realistic. Rozier's context isn't anything like the situation of Smart, because Rozier hasn't really played any meaningful, consistent minutes in the regular season, which is exactly why I'm preaching caution and easing up on this Rozier hype.

Let's see how he does in the first 10-20 games of the regular season when the games actually matter before making such proclamations about him. There's a major difference between the summer league/preseason and the regular season.

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2016, 04:22:53 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Al Horford on his most impressive teammate:

"There's been a few guys but I would definitely say Marcus Smart.  He's a guy that really, really knows how to play... He is the ultimate competitor... he really gets after it.  I was just impressed on his basketball IQ.  I knew he was a smart player, I knew he was good, but he sees things way before a lot of people see them, he anticipates plays on the offensive and defensive end.  For being such a young player, he is a very, very smart player."

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/789557253305147393
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2016, 04:23:51 PM »

Online jpotter33

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I'm just excited for the season to start.  I think you really have to have not watched Smart play at all in the preseason to think his game hasn't hugely improved in all areas outside of three point shooting.  His playmaking and floor vision looked great, he looked very improved off the pick and roll, his pull up in the midrange was a real threat, and he showed off nice floaters and was more aggressive into the paint.  This is not Tony Allen we are dealing with here.

You misunderstand me my friend. First I was clearly joking about the 2k comment. It was to lighten the mood. Second, I have seen improvement too. But imo there is nothing he can do about his lack of first step and his weak vertical.

Again, I hope Smart proves me wrong because he is very likable.

Perhaps this was a worry in his first year when he didn't attack the rim very much. But last year and this preseason he's shown consistent ability to get to the rim. He doesn't get there as easily as someone like IT and Brown, who both have elite quickness, but he can still get there successfully. So this shouldn't be a worry anymore.

The major worry about Smart is his three point shooting, which has been admittedly terrible. However, he has improved his mid-range shooting by a large margin, so there's still hope that he can ultimately become at least an average three point shooter. This is something that one can improve on throughout their career, so it's not a deal breaker with him.

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2016, 04:26:11 PM »

Online jpotter33

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Al Horford on his most impressive teammate:

"There's been a few guys but I would definitely say Marcus Smart.  He's a guy that really, really knows how to play... He is the ultimate competitor... he really gets after it.  I was just impressed on his basketball IQ.  I knew he was a smart player, I knew he was good, but he sees things way before a lot of people see them, he anticipates plays on the offensive and defensive end.  For being such a young player, he is a very, very smart player."

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/789557253305147393

This is the major misconception with Smart, too. Many look at his questionable shot selection at times and say that he doesn't have a high BBIQ. But if you watch him play, it's clear his BBIQ is exceptionally high, especially on the defensive end. I'd argue that his elite defensive prowess is due primarily to his elite defensive BBIQ.

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2016, 04:30:31 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I'm just excited for the season to start.  I think you really have to have not watched Smart play at all in the preseason to think his game hasn't hugely improved in all areas outside of three point shooting.  His playmaking and floor vision looked great, he looked very improved off the pick and roll, his pull up in the midrange was a real threat, and he showed off nice floaters and was more aggressive into the paint.  This is not Tony Allen we are dealing with here.

You misunderstand me my friend. First I was clearly joking about the 2k comment. It was to lighten the mood. Second, I have seen improvement too. But imo there is nothing he can do about his lack of first step and his weak vertical.

Again, I hope Smart proves me wrong because he is very likable.

Perhaps this was a worry in his first year when he didn't attack the rim very much. But last year and this preseason he's shown consistent ability to get to the rim. He doesn't get there as easily as someone like IT and Brown, who both have elite quickness, but he can still get there successfully. So this shouldn't be a worry anymore.

The major worry about Smart is his three point shooting, which has been admittedly terrible. However, he has improved his mid-range shooting by a large margin, so there's still hope that he can ultimately become at least an average three point shooter. This is something that one can improve on throughout their career, so it's not a deal breaker with him.

While not sure about his 3 pt fg percentage durin sl play, his stroke just looks better.  Less arm motion and more wrist involved.  Encouraging sign

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2016, 04:32:26 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Al Horford on his most impressive teammate:

"There's been a few guys but I would definitely say Marcus Smart.  He's a guy that really, really knows how to play... He is the ultimate competitor... he really gets after it.  I was just impressed on his basketball IQ.  I knew he was a smart player, I knew he was good, but he sees things way before a lot of people see them, he anticipates plays on the offensive and defensive end.  For being such a young player, he is a very, very smart player."

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/789557253305147393

This is the major misconception with Smart, too. Many look at his questionable shot selection at times and say that he doesn't have a high BBIQ. But if you watch him play, it's clear his BBIQ is exceptionally high, especially on the defensive end. I'd argue that his elite defensive prowess is due primarily to his elite defensive BBIQ.

Yeah I agree.  I think his shot selection is due mostly to confidence in himself and desire to win a game.  And I think he probably buys into "threes over twos" pretty hard as well.  You see with his offensive rebounding and clutch plays I think this is a guy that can really read the floor.

I've already said it, but yeah on defense I think we are talking maybe the best perimeter defender in the league, right up there with Leonard for me.  The way he strips players and when he chooses to jump passing lanes is a guy who knows basketball, not a gambler.  Then he can go match up against a Millsap and know where to bother a guy like that with a size advantage.  And he has size and strength to guard more positions than Bradley can.  He is very special on defense.

I think the game is slowing down for him and his offensive IQ is showing in the preseason.  His passing and floor vision was very good and he was looking hugely improved running pick and roll.  As I said, I'm excited for the season to start (and his ankle to heal) because I think people will see when he is on the floor this isn't a Tony Allen type player. 

I really think he will be a star.  Yeah he is not the most athletic player, but his defense is unreal, his offense will come along, and he has the mental ability and intangibles that really make star players in this league.

I know we are off topic here on Smart but just wanted to share and argue my points there because I feel strongly on them.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2016, 04:42:36 PM »

Online jpotter33

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I'm just excited for the season to start.  I think you really have to have not watched Smart play at all in the preseason to think his game hasn't hugely improved in all areas outside of three point shooting.  His playmaking and floor vision looked great, he looked very improved off the pick and roll, his pull up in the midrange was a real threat, and he showed off nice floaters and was more aggressive into the paint.  This is not Tony Allen we are dealing with here.

You misunderstand me my friend. First I was clearly joking about the 2k comment. It was to lighten the mood. Second, I have seen improvement too. But imo there is nothing he can do about his lack of first step and his weak vertical.

Again, I hope Smart proves me wrong because he is very likable.

Perhaps this was a worry in his first year when he didn't attack the rim very much. But last year and this preseason he's shown consistent ability to get to the rim. He doesn't get there as easily as someone like IT and Brown, who both have elite quickness, but he can still get there successfully. So this shouldn't be a worry anymore.

The major worry about Smart is his three point shooting, which has been admittedly terrible. However, he has improved his mid-range shooting by a large margin, so there's still hope that he can ultimately become at least an average three point shooter. This is something that one can improve on throughout their career, so it's not a deal breaker with him.

While not sure about his 3 pt fg percentage durin sl play, his stroke just looks better.  Less arm motion and more wrist involved.  Encouraging sign

Yeah, he seems to have effectively changed the mechanics on his mid-range shot, but he still has a lot of extra movement on his three-point shot that he needs to get rid of to improve his percentages.

Re: If Rozier keeps up his play, how does IT future with the Celts play out?
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2016, 04:45:35 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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