Author Topic: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)  (Read 41291 times)

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Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #165 on: March 14, 2017, 06:05:39 PM »

Offline footey

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So because Chad Ford says he is still a high prospect he should be? Ford is the same guy that relentlessly pushed Exum, Mudiay, Bender and Hezonja as sure fire top 5 guys when there wasn't the greatest evidence of them being such. The evidence really isn't there for Giles. I wouldn't risk a top 5 pick on him. There's a lot of ifs and not a lot of evidence that he deserves a top 5 selection. Especially when Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, and Smith have looked so good. Then you have Markkanen, Monk, Fox, and Issac. Just don't see Giles breaking the top nine with so many possible red flags.

I agree it is unlikely he climbs to top 5, but could see him climb to top 10, if he is healthy, even if he doesn't perform that well in tourney. This kid was national consensus no. 1 in HS his  senior a year ago. As he gets healthier you can see his elite athleticism returning. There are a dearth of really good bigs in this draft.

Also, you can see he has competitive fire.  After a screw up he made during a recent game, you could see his frustration on the bench. Probably over the limitations placed on him by injury recovery process, being behind, limited minutes, etc.  The only red flag is whether doctors examine him and conclude he is more likely to incur another knee injury, based on his history.

The answer to that last query is yes, he is more likely to suffer a subsequent injury.

Quote
Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction (ACLR) surgery is a common knee injury procedure, but the overall incidence rate of having to go through it again within 24 months is 6 times greater than someone who has never had an ACL tear, according to researchers presenting their work today at the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine's (AOSSM) Annual Meeting in Chicago, IL.

Discouraging enough to keep a lot of GM's away.  Maybe out of top 10. Thanks.

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #166 on: March 14, 2017, 06:59:56 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Would anyone who actually like Giles trade AB for him? I think if he clears medically and team was to land Fultz or Jackson. I'd pull the trigger.

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #167 on: March 14, 2017, 07:08:56 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Would anyone who actually like Giles trade AB for him? I think if he clears medically and team was to land Fultz or Jackson. I'd pull the trigger.
AB has so much more value than Giles its nuts. You're trading an All-NBA 1st team defensive player that shoots over 40% from three and averages 17PPG and 6RPG for a kid who has looked lost in college, who has a bum knee, who is going to need years to put on enough muscle and mass to play at the PF and C position and who has ever only looked good versus highschoolers. No way I make that trade if I am Ainge. If I am trading Bradley its for a proven, veteran upgrade, not a reach of a teenage rookie.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 07:21:04 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #168 on: March 14, 2017, 07:13:01 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Would anyone who actually like Giles trade AB for him? I think if he clears medically and team was to land Fultz or Jackson. I'd pull the trigger.
I'm a huge Harry Giles believer, but there's no way I would give up AB for him.

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #169 on: March 14, 2017, 07:17:15 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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So because Chad Ford says he is still a high prospect he should be? Ford is the same guy that relentlessly pushed Exum, Mudiay, Bender and Hezonja as sure fire top 5 guys when there wasn't the greatest evidence of them being such. The evidence really isn't there for Giles. I wouldn't risk a top 5 pick on him. There's a lot of ifs and not a lot of evidence that he deserves a top 5 selection. Especially when Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, and Smith have looked so good. Then you have Markkanen, Monk, Fox, and Issac. Just don't see Giles breaking the top nine with so many possible red flags.

I agree it is unlikely he climbs to top 5, but could see him climb to top 10, if he is healthy, even if he doesn't perform that well in tourney. This kid was national consensus no. 1 in HS his  senior a year ago. As he gets healthier you can see his elite athleticism returning. There are a dearth of really good bigs in this draft.

Also, you can see he has competitive fire.  After a screw up he made during a recent game, you could see his frustration on the bench. Probably over the limitations placed on him by injury recovery process, being behind, limited minutes, etc.  The only red flag is whether doctors examine him and conclude he is more likely to incur another knee injury, based on his history.

The answer to that last query is yes, he is more likely to suffer a subsequent injury.

Quote
Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction (ACLR) surgery is a common knee injury procedure, but the overall incidence rate of having to go through it again within 24 months is 6 times greater than someone who has never had an ACL tear, according to researchers presenting their work today at the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine's (AOSSM) Annual Meeting in Chicago, IL.

Discouraging enough to keep a lot of GM's away.  Maybe out of top 10. Thanks.

For several months Draftexpress has had Giles outside of the top 15, currently #25.  He blew out both knees by 18 years of age.  It's sad, he was a heck of a HS talent, but I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.  Maybe as a late 1st flier with very limited expectations. 

For his sake, I hope he is drafted in the 1st round and earns some guaranteed money for all the work he has probably put into basketball to this point. Not sure whether it's even a wise decision for him to declare this season or not. 
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Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #170 on: March 14, 2017, 07:22:56 PM »

Offline Celts Fan 508

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So because Chad Ford says he is still a high prospect he should be? Ford is the same guy that relentlessly pushed Exum, Mudiay, Bender and Hezonja as sure fire top 5 guys when there wasn't the greatest evidence of them being such. The evidence really isn't there for Giles. I wouldn't risk a top 5 pick on him. There's a lot of ifs and not a lot of evidence that he deserves a top 5 selection. Especially when Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, and Smith have looked so good. Then you have Markkanen, Monk, Fox, and Issac. Just don't see Giles breaking the top nine with so many possible red flags.

I agree it is unlikely he climbs to top 5, but could see him climb to top 10, if he is healthy, even if he doesn't perform that well in tourney. This kid was national consensus no. 1 in HS his  senior a year ago. As he gets healthier you can see his elite athleticism returning. There are a dearth of really good bigs in this draft.

Also, you can see he has competitive fire.  After a screw up he made during a recent game, you could see his frustration on the bench. Probably over the limitations placed on him by injury recovery process, being behind, limited minutes, etc.  The only red flag is whether doctors examine him and conclude he is more likely to incur another knee injury, based on his history.

The answer to that last query is yes, he is more likely to suffer a subsequent injury.

Quote
Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction (ACLR) surgery is a common knee injury procedure, but the overall incidence rate of having to go through it again within 24 months is 6 times greater than someone who has never had an ACL tear, according to researchers presenting their work today at the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine's (AOSSM) Annual Meeting in Chicago, IL.

Discouraging enough to keep a lot of GM's away.  Maybe out of top 10. Thanks.

For several months Draftexpress has had Giles outside of the top 15, currently #25.  He blew out both knees by 18 years of age.  It's sad, he was a heck of a HS talent, but I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.  Maybe as a late 1st flier with very limited expectations. 

For his sake, I hope he is drafted in the 1st round and earns some guaranteed money for all the work he has probably put into basketball to this point. Not sure whether it's even a wise decision for him to declare this season or not.

If he doesn't declare and blows out his knee again his NBA career would be over before it starts.  I don't know if he will be medically cleared to be a first rounder.
2019 historical draft.  Pick 12

Tim Duncan, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Scottie Pippen, Willis Reed, Mitch Richmond, Sam Jones, Dan Majerle, Bob Cousy, Rasheed Wallace, Shawn Kemp, Marcus Camby

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #171 on: March 14, 2017, 07:44:16 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Would anyone who actually like Giles trade AB for him? I think if he clears medically and team was to land Fultz or Jackson. I'd pull the trigger.
AB has so much more value than Giles its nuts. You're trading an All-NBA 1st team defensive player that shoots over 40% from three and averages 17PPG and 6RPG for a kid who has looked lost in college, who has a bum knee, who is going to need years to put on enough muscle and mass to play at the PF and C position and who has ever only looked good versus highschoolers. No way I make that trade if I am Ainge. If I am trading Bradley its for a proven, veteran upgrade, not a reach of a teenage rookie.
That's understood you are more concerned with the present. I'm thinking future. Giles could develop into a legit PF. And I really don't see team resigning AB when his contract is up. Would like to see the team move on from AB on draft night and get a big while they can instead of losing AB for nothing.

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #172 on: March 14, 2017, 07:52:13 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I think that if he gets a first round promise he comes out. At least he's guaranteed $$$, even at the very end of the first.

If no promise, despite what I've been thinking all along that he will definitely come out, I think that Giles gambles and stays in school.

If he opts to come out and gets picked 2nd round, he's guaranteed nothing and has to fight for a spot on team. If he ever gets injured in that scenario, fighting for a spot on a team and a contract, he's done value-wise.

If he returns to Duke, he gets an education, and if he's lucky, continues to get stronger and proves himself next year with lottery position. Of course, if he gets hurt again, he's cooked.

It's a gamble, either way.

Personally I think he comes out with a promise from a playoff team with some talent already that they can take a chance on him.  San Antonio and Toronto come to mind. Utah has two late firsts, including #30. They could be in play too.

I guess that there is one other scenario. If he declares and is not taken until the second round, maybe he can get a pro contract overseas. I don't know how that works though. (guaranteed$$$, length, etc) 

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2017, 08:01:46 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Would anyone who actually like Giles trade AB for him? I think if he clears medically and team was to land Fultz or Jackson. I'd pull the trigger.
AB has so much more value than Giles its nuts. You're trading an All-NBA 1st team defensive player that shoots over 40% from three and averages 17PPG and 6RPG for a kid who has looked lost in college, who has a bum knee, who is going to need years to put on enough muscle and mass to play at the PF and C position and who has ever only looked good versus highschoolers. No way I make that trade if I am Ainge. If I am trading Bradley its for a proven, veteran upgrade, not a reach of a teenage rookie.
That's understood you are more concerned with the present. I'm thinking future. Giles could develop into a legit PF. And I really don't see team resigning AB when his contract is up. Would like to see the team move on from AB on draft night and get a big while they can instead of losing AB for nothing.

Maybe Giles develops into what his potential suggests, but there is an awful lot of risk that he doesn't.

Bradley is the 3rd, possibly 2nd most important player on the team right now. His defense is super critical to our success. I'm not sure why people over look him contributions as easily and often as they do, but there is no way Ainge just let's him walk in FA. I fully expect Bradley to be on this team for a while, unless he is part of a trade for a notable upgrade. No one on this team can provide what he does as well as he does.

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #174 on: March 14, 2017, 08:12:18 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Would anyone who actually like Giles trade AB for him? I think if he clears medically and team was to land Fultz or Jackson. I'd pull the trigger.
AB has so much more value than Giles its nuts. You're trading an All-NBA 1st team defensive player that shoots over 40% from three and averages 17PPG and 6RPG for a kid who has looked lost in college, who has a bum knee, who is going to need years to put on enough muscle and mass to play at the PF and C position and who has ever only looked good versus highschoolers. No way I make that trade if I am Ainge. If I am trading Bradley its for a proven, veteran upgrade, not a reach of a teenage rookie.
That's understood you are more concerned with the present. I'm thinking future. Giles could develop into a legit PF. And I really don't see team resigning AB when his contract is up. Would like to see the team move on from AB on draft night and get a big while they can instead of losing AB for nothing.
Its a horrid trade...doesn't matter how you are thinking...past, present, future. A sure thing like Bradley, if you move on from him, you trade him and maybe a pick or another player for an upgrade in the frontcourt that helps this team move into contender status, now and for the next few years. This team is building towards winning now AND the future. You don't move Bradley for someone who's best case scenario might be an oft injured, too skinny, frontcourt player that might show potential to reach AB's level of player, maybe, in 6 or 7 years. That's just bad roster management.

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #175 on: March 14, 2017, 10:25:38 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I think that if he gets a first round promise he comes out. At least he's guaranteed $$$, even at the very end of the first.

If no promise, despite what I've been thinking all along that he will definitely come out, I think that Giles gambles and stays in school.

If he opts to come out and gets picked 2nd round, he's guaranteed nothing and has to fight for a spot on team. If he ever gets injured in that scenario, fighting for a spot on a team and a contract, he's done value-wise.

If he returns to Duke, he gets an education, and if he's lucky, continues to get stronger and proves himself next year with lottery position. Of course, if he gets hurt again, he's cooked.

It's a gamble, either way.

Personally I think he comes out with a promise from a playoff team with some talent already that they can take a chance on him.  San Antonio and Toronto come to mind. Utah has two late firsts, including #30. They could be in play too.

I guess that there is one other scenario. If he declares and is not taken until the second round, maybe he can get a pro contract overseas. I don't know how that works though. (guaranteed$$$, length, etc)
Unless he gets a medical red flag, it is hard to see Giles falling to the 2nd round.  The Lakers have a late 1st, the Nets have 2 late 1sts, the Magic have a late 1st and the Blazers have 3 1sts (currently 12th, 20th and 27th). 

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #176 on: March 14, 2017, 10:53:59 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think that if he gets a first round promise he comes out. At least he's guaranteed $$$, even at the very end of the first.

If no promise, despite what I've been thinking all along that he will definitely come out, I think that Giles gambles and stays in school.

If he opts to come out and gets picked 2nd round, he's guaranteed nothing and has to fight for a spot on team. If he ever gets injured in that scenario, fighting for a spot on a team and a contract, he's done value-wise.

If he returns to Duke, he gets an education, and if he's lucky, continues to get stronger and proves himself next year with lottery position. Of course, if he gets hurt again, he's cooked.

It's a gamble, either way.

Personally I think he comes out with a promise from a playoff team with some talent already that they can take a chance on him.  San Antonio and Toronto come to mind. Utah has two late firsts, including #30. They could be in play too.

I guess that there is one other scenario. If he declares and is not taken until the second round, maybe he can get a pro contract overseas. I don't know how that works though. (guaranteed$$$, length, etc) 
that's a tough situation for him -- declare over concerns he blows out his knee if he returns to school or declare and take a chance he slides to the second round.

if it's the latter situation and the C's have a shot at him with the Minny pick (which I just cannot see him lasting anywhere near the second round -- some GM will take a chance on him late in the first round), I can only hope they pick him. 

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #177 on: March 14, 2017, 11:21:07 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I think that if he gets a first round promise he comes out. At least he's guaranteed $$$, even at the very end of the first.

If no promise, despite what I've been thinking all along that he will definitely come out, I think that Giles gambles and stays in school.

If he opts to come out and gets picked 2nd round, he's guaranteed nothing and has to fight for a spot on team. If he ever gets injured in that scenario, fighting for a spot on a team and a contract, he's done value-wise.

If he returns to Duke, he gets an education, and if he's lucky, continues to get stronger and proves himself next year with lottery position. Of course, if he gets hurt again, he's cooked.

It's a gamble, either way.

Personally I think he comes out with a promise from a playoff team with some talent already that they can take a chance on him.  San Antonio and Toronto come to mind. Utah has two late firsts, including #30. They could be in play too.

I guess that there is one other scenario. If he declares and is not taken until the second round, maybe he can get a pro contract overseas. I don't know how that works though. (guaranteed$$$, length, etc) 
that's a tough situation for him -- declare over concerns he blows out his knee if he returns to school or declare and take a chance he slides to the second round.

if it's the latter situation and the C's have a shot at him with the Minny pick (which I just cannot see him lasting anywhere near the second round -- some GM will take a chance on him late in the first round), I can only hope they pick him.

I feel real bad for the kid, being in the predicament he is in.

Selfishly, I too hope he lasts till our Minny pick, but for his sake, I hope you and tazz are correct and he is taken late first, if not sooner. He deserves some luck.

To see his draft stock go from preseason top 5 pick to where his value is now really sucks for him and his family.

Workouts for teams will be huge for him as to if and when he is picked. But right there is another dilemma, right? Don't workout, and "he's hiding something"; work out and risk injury and/or underperforming.

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #178 on: March 14, 2017, 11:46:41 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Would anyone who actually like Giles trade AB for him? I think if he clears medically and team was to land Fultz or Jackson. I'd pull the trigger.
AB has so much more value than Giles its nuts. You're trading an All-NBA 1st team defensive player that shoots over 40% from three and averages 17PPG and 6RPG for a kid who has looked lost in college, who has a bum knee, who is going to need years to put on enough muscle and mass to play at the PF and C position and who has ever only looked good versus highschoolers. No way I make that trade if I am Ainge. If I am trading Bradley its for a proven, veteran upgrade, not a reach of a teenage rookie.
That's understood you are more concerned with the present. I'm thinking future. Giles could develop into a legit PF. And I really don't see team resigning AB when his contract is up. Would like to see the team move on from AB on draft night and get a big while they can instead of losing AB for nothing.
Its a horrid trade...doesn't matter how you are thinking...past, present, future. A sure thing like Bradley, if you move on from him, you trade him and maybe a pick or another player for an upgrade in the frontcourt that helps this team move into contender status, now and for the next few years. This team is building towards winning now AND the future. You don't move Bradley for someone who's best case scenario might be an oft injured, too skinny, frontcourt player that might show potential to reach AB's level of player, maybe, in 6 or 7 years. That's just bad roster management.
You are over exaggerating the value of AB. Its not a horrid trade because AB doesn't have a lot of value. You can't just simply trade him (an expiring contract and injured often player) for an upgrade by giving up a pick or two. If you want an upgrade try a Nets pick. Because what team is going to give up a better player in that scenario when they may not resign him either? Bad roster mangment is keeping guys too long when they won't be here for a championship ie Bass and Turner. Taking a shot on a guy (like I said, if he clears medically) that was once the #1 High school prospect for a guy who is going to be gone anyways is a savvy gamble.

Re: Harry Giles Thread (Merged)
« Reply #179 on: March 14, 2017, 11:57:02 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I think that if he gets a first round promise he comes out. At least he's guaranteed $$$, even at the very end of the first.

If no promise, despite what I've been thinking all along that he will definitely come out, I think that Giles gambles and stays in school.

If he opts to come out and gets picked 2nd round, he's guaranteed nothing and has to fight for a spot on team. If he ever gets injured in that scenario, fighting for a spot on a team and a contract, he's done value-wise.

If he returns to Duke, he gets an education, and if he's lucky, continues to get stronger and proves himself next year with lottery position. Of course, if he gets hurt again, he's cooked.

It's a gamble, either way.

Personally I think he comes out with a promise from a playoff team with some talent already that they can take a chance on him.  San Antonio and Toronto come to mind. Utah has two late firsts, including #30. They could be in play too.

I guess that there is one other scenario. If he declares and is not taken until the second round, maybe he can get a pro contract overseas. I don't know how that works though. (guaranteed$$$, length, etc) 
that's a tough situation for him -- declare over concerns he blows out his knee if he returns to school or declare and take a chance he slides to the second round.

if it's the latter situation and the C's have a shot at him with the Minny pick (which I just cannot see him lasting anywhere near the second round -- some GM will take a chance on him late in the first round), I can only hope they pick him.

I feel real bad for the kid, being in the predicament he is in.

Selfishly, I too hope he lasts till our Minny pick, but for his sake, I hope you and tazz are correct and he is taken late first, if not sooner. He deserves some luck.

To see his draft stock go from preseason top 5 pick to where his value is now really sucks for him and his family.

Workouts for teams will be huge for him as to if and when he is picked. But right there is another dilemma, right? Don't workout, and "he's hiding something"; work out and risk injury and/or underperforming.
Even the projected top pick has to do individual workouts for the top team or two.  There is absolutely no way Giles could get away without working out.  If he underperforms, he can just go back to Duke for his sophomore season.  As for injury risk, he's playing for Duke now so workouts shouldn't be anymore of a concern.