Author Topic: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier  (Read 8828 times)

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Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2016, 06:10:06 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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The expectations are far lower for Rozier as he was considered a reach at #16.  If he develops into a role player, it's a win.
 
You can't whiff on top 6 picks... especially ones in drafts that are widely believed to be strong.   Smart needs to develop into a star for him not to be considered a disappointment.  This year needs to be a big one for him.

If we're basing it off what they've done so far...  Smart is a backup defensive role player and Rozier is a D-League talent who has yet to prove himself capable of playing on the NBA level.

Long-term... who knows.  Maybe Rozier ends up the better player.  The Rondo to Smart's Telfair.   But I haven't given up on Smart yet.

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2016, 06:20:16 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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At this point there is no discussion to be had.  Smart is the far superior player in virtually every way.  What has Rozier shown himself to be able to do at an NBA level?  He has shown some potential but the team basically self destructed every time he stepped on the floor last year.  I have high hopes for Rozier but he has a long way to go before he becomes a valuable rotation piece.  Smart flips games on there head defensively and in a better role offensively, surrounded by better talent, will be an excellent player going forward.

There is a discussion to be had. Use your eyes. Does Rozier not have more upside? I mean he's already better on offense. What does Smart do better on offense? Passing probably, but other than that Rozier is better than him at every aspect.

Also, Rozier is a very good defender. Look, I get that you want to use last year, but you can't use last year. This is a new year. Players improve. People like to project before the season starts. If we just wait and see what happens and then make a judgement, there is no point to having a forum.

Anyways, time will tell who is right or wrong, but I really do think Smart should watch his back this year because Rozier is going to steal minutes from him if Smart can't shoot. Dude can't even start on this team. He's losing to Bradley and honestly at the end of last year, people were clammering around saying Rozier should take Smart's minutes. At least on talk show radio.
You do realize that Smart and Rozier are exactly the same age right?  Rozier displayed a very poor ability to distribute, shot poorly and killed the offense last year every time he stepped on the floor.  Do not confuse a few summer league games against inferior competition with reality.  His defense isn't even in the conversation with Smarts at this point and he is also far less versatile.  Bradley should be moved either to the bench or traded mainly because he and I.T. are a weak defensive pairing, they are just to small to be a starting backcourt combo on a contender.

i mean, most of his playing time was garbage time, wasnt it? unless youre talking about the playoffs. even then, brad gave the backup point guard role to rozier. he was the one handling the ball in the playoffs. not marcus. marcus was playing off the ball. what does it say to you that brad trusts a rookie guard who spent a lot of time in the d-league to handle the ball in the playoffs over his second year player who was the playoff starter the season before?
Yes and he played like garbage in garbage time as well as killing the offense when on the floor in regular minutes.  He just hasn't developed the ability to lead an offense yet, maybe he comes around now I sure hope so.  Brad didn't GIVE the backup PG role to Rozier over Smart, Rozier may not even know how to play off ball so they had to play him at the point after Bradley went down.  It just worked better in Brad's eyes and Smart played vastly more minutes averaging 32 in the playoffs to Rozier's less than 20.

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2016, 07:14:04 PM »

Offline inverselock

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Rozier is the guy.   You can unfairly compare a 2nd year player to 1st.    With more experience Rozier will come out on top.   

Smart lacks athleticism, skills, decision making.  Even in the decent "game 4" performance he made so many bonehead plays.

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2016, 08:04:51 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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At this point there is no discussion to be had.  Smart is the far superior player in virtually every way.  What has Rozier shown himself to be able to do at an NBA level?  He has shown some potential but the team basically self destructed every time he stepped on the floor last year.  I have high hopes for Rozier but he has a long way to go before he becomes a valuable rotation piece.  Smart flips games on there head defensively and in a better role offensively, surrounded by better talent, will be an excellent player going forward.

There is a discussion to be had. Use your eyes. Does Rozier not have more upside? I mean he's already better on offense. What does Smart do better on offense? Passing probably, but other than that Rozier is better than him at every aspect.

Also, Rozier is a very good defender. Look, I get that you want to use last year, but you can't use last year. This is a new year. Players improve. People like to project before the season starts. If we just wait and see what happens and then make a judgement, there is no point to having a forum.

Anyways, time will tell who is right or wrong, but I really do think Smart should watch his back this year because Rozier is going to steal minutes from him if Smart can't shoot. Dude can't even start on this team. He's losing to Bradley and honestly at the end of last year, people were clammering around saying Rozier should take Smart's minutes. At least on talk show radio.
You do realize that Smart and Rozier are exactly the same age right?  Rozier displayed a very poor ability to distribute, shot poorly and killed the offense last year every time he stepped on the floor.  Do not confuse a few summer league games against inferior competition with reality.  His defense isn't even in the conversation with Smarts at this point and he is also far less versatile.  Bradley should be moved either to the bench or traded mainly because he and I.T. are a weak defensive pairing, they are just to small to be a starting backcourt combo on a contender.
Since you mentioned trading Bradley.  If I were Philly, I wouldn't have much interest in Smart or Rozier.  I would be interested in a Noel for Bradley deal.  Bradley would be a good fit with Simmons. 

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2016, 08:10:08 PM »

Offline Clench123

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Of course, Marcus Smart.  What are you smoking?

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Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2016, 08:12:46 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Rozier is the guy.   You can unfairly compare a 2nd year player to 1st.    With more experience Rozier will come out on top.   

Smart lacks athleticism, skills, decision making.  Even in the decent "game 4" performance he made so many bonehead plays.
Rozier may someday be the better player and I hope he is because that would mean the C's have another awesome player.  As of right now he isn't even in the discussion.  If Rozier was so good then why did the Celtics bench have much better success with Smart on the floor.  The C's bench was dominant at least in non small ball units last year and yet every time Rozier touched the floor the offense completely stagnated.  It didn't matter if it was junk minutes or early game minutes the #'s say the same thing.  The C's were a team worst -7.1 points per 100 possessions with Rozier on the floor.  He does appear to be getting better but he has a long way to go to be at Smart's level.

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2016, 03:52:11 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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The expectations are far lower for Rozier as he was considered a reach at #16.  If he develops into a role player, it's a win.
 
You can't whiff on top 6 picks... especially ones in drafts that are widely believed to be strong.   Smart needs to develop into a star for him not to be considered a disappointment.  This year needs to be a big one for him.

If we're basing it off what they've done so far...  Smart is a backup defensive role player and Rozier is a D-League talent who has yet to prove himself capable of playing on the NBA level.

Long-term... who knows.  Maybe Rozier ends up the better player.  The Rondo to Smart's Telfair.   But I haven't given up on Smart yet.



 LB, I hear you about not wiffing in a top six pick. However it was a two man race for the pick Randle and Smart.

 We picked the right guy for our team. Neither player is as good as the expectation. Who cares about that it's a dead issue.

 We took the right player, he's just not that great, but he is.
 

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2016, 05:08:28 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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remember marcus boxing out cousins too hard and getting thrown to ground or crashing a cousins screen-the guy is relentless on defense
the way he dips his shoulder under and powers up and through a screen-
crowder keeps talking about his slight ankle sprain and how it effected his shot
smarts two seasons have been marred by debilitating injuries
also there was no stability his rookie season-losing rondo and green and a parade of new faces
the comparisons can't even begin till rozier starts to play regularly and through a season even injured or having a bad stretch
i like the way rozier moves his body type allows that,hopefully someday he can play like isaiah one

marcus played a great game against westbrook and durant showing what he can do,then the atlanta game 4 but it is these two players that are part of celtics future not one
 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 09:05:31 AM by rollie mass »

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2016, 08:37:14 AM »

Offline JBcat

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 The thing is both Rozier and Smart can play the one and the two.

 I have hope for Hunter, but for now let's count Hunter and Young as garbage.

 That leave's Thomas, Rozier, Smart that can play the point, and Bradley, Smart and  Rozier that can play the two.

 In today's NBA that is not too many bodies IMO.

This.  Think back in Ainge's day where him and DJ shared ball handling and defensive assignments at times.  Also Smart can play the 3 in a pinch in some 3 guard lineups we've seen in the past.

Also there is no reason to make a decision now with Rozier hardly has played any meaningful games.  I say play it out, and see if it truly becomes a logjam.

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2016, 09:05:31 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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The expectations are far lower for Rozier as he was considered a reach at #16.  If he develops into a role player, it's a win.
 
You can't whiff on top 6 picks... especially ones in drafts that are widely believed to be strong.   Smart needs to develop into a star for him not to be considered a disappointment.  This year needs to be a big one for him.

If we're basing it off what they've done so far...  Smart is a backup defensive role player and Rozier is a D-League talent who has yet to prove himself capable of playing on the NBA level.

Long-term... who knows.  Maybe Rozier ends up the better player.  The Rondo to Smart's Telfair.   But I haven't given up on Smart yet.

Agree that expectations of a ceiling should be higher for Smart. He's already proven on the defensive end, we'll see this year what his point guard abilities are like in the NBA and hopefully see him progress offensively too.

The 2014 draft wasn't widely thought to be strong though. Picks 1-3 were thought to be All-NBA capable players down the line but beyond that the rest of the top 10 were projected as solid starters at best. Those picked after him were:
7. Julius Randle
8. Nik Stauskas
9. Noah Vonleh
10. Elfrid Payton

Looking at that I'd say Smart has deserved the spot he was picked. He's certainly done more than Embiid so far and I'd have him above Gordon and Exum at the moment. So as of right now we have a pretty good 6th pick on our hands

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2016, 09:14:51 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Rozier getting a lot of love in training camp so far, he's poised for a big leap this year!  ;)

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2016, 09:44:52 AM »

Online BitterJim

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At this point there is no discussion to be had.  Smart is the far superior player in virtually every way.  What has Rozier shown himself to be able to do at an NBA level?  He has shown some potential but the team basically self destructed every time he stepped on the floor last year.  I have high hopes for Rozier but he has a long way to go before he becomes a valuable rotation piece.  Smart flips games on there head defensively and in a better role offensively, surrounded by better talent, will be an excellent player going forward.

There is a discussion to be had. Use your eyes. Does Rozier not have more upside? I mean he's already better on offense. What does Smart do better on offense? Passing probably, but other than that Rozier is better than him at every aspect.

Also, Rozier is a very good defender. Look, I get that you want to use last year, but you can't use last year. This is a new year. Players improve. People like to project before the season starts. If we just wait and see what happens and then make a judgement, there is no point to having a forum.

Anyways, time will tell who is right or wrong, but I really do think Smart should watch his back this year because Rozier is going to steal minutes from him if Smart can't shoot. Dude can't even start on this team. He's losing to Bradley and honestly at the end of last year, people were clammering around saying Rozier should take Smart's minutes. At least on talk show radio.

Yeah, who could think that Smart is good when he can't even start over a guy that only got 62 votes for All Defensive First Team and scored a pitiful 15.2 ppg on a truly disgusting 52% eFG? Phil Pressey could have started over him!

It's fine to think that Rozier will improve a lot this year (and I think we all hope he does), but to say that he's already better than Smart is a bit ridiculous.  We haven't even seen either of them play this season (no, summer league does not count), so let's hold it on the comparison.

Far more likely, we'll find that Smart is the much better defender, Rozier is better at running an offense, and Rozier is a better shooter (but they're both still below average).  And that Avery Bradley (despite your phrasing making it seem like he's a replacement level player) will continue to start and have a huge positive impact on the team, behind only IT and Horford
I'm bitter.

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2016, 10:54:14 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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Both are going to play.

If Rozier beats out Smart for the back up pg minutes in training camp, does anyone think that Smart will just ride the bench? Both are going to be in the rotation and almost certainly playing at the same time.
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Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2016, 10:55:58 AM »

Online BitterJim

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Both are going to play.

If Rozier beats out Smart for the back up pg minutes in training camp, does anyone think that Smart will just ride the bench? Both are going to be in the rotation and almost certainly playing at the same time.

I think in that case, he'd just end up playing SG more (which he should be doing anyway) and maybe some SF.  Even if Rozier were to take all his PG minutes (unlikely), there's no way Green would take his other minutes
I'm bitter.

Re: Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2016, 12:24:58 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Both are going to play.

If Rozier beats out Smart for the back up pg minutes in training camp, does anyone think that Smart will just ride the bench? Both are going to be in the rotation and almost certainly playing at the same time.

I think in that case, he'd just end up playing SG more (which he should be doing anyway) and maybe some SF.  Even if Rozier were to take all his PG minutes (unlikely), there's no way Green would take his other minutes
In my mind the bench will have Rozier and Smart at the 1 and 2. Who plays which position is pretty much irrelevant. Due to this I don't see them as in competition with each other.
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