Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic

[Moranis]

The 92-93 Magic had Skiles, Anderson, and Shaq start basically every game.  Dennis Scott missed about 30 games but was locked in as the SF.  Anthony Bowie started the missed games from Scott/Anderson, but Tom Tolbert and Jeff Turner basically started at PF.  Penny's 1st year they still had Skiles, Anderson, and Scott and Jeff Turner was the PF.  They added Grant for 94-95 season because it was the glaring hole.  In order to sign Grant they had to dump Skiles and did so with the 96 1st rounder.

So to me it seems like Webber filled a much bigger hole than Hardaway.  Skiles was far from a great PG, but he was good enough and they could have gotten by with him (especially his great outside shooting).  By making the Penny trade, they had to move Scott to the bench and to fill in the PF hole had to dump Skiles with a 1st round pick (which cost them a shot at Kobe/Peja/Nash). 

I think the Magic would have been pretty darn good with Skiles/Anderson/Scott/Webber/O'Neal as the starting 5 with Turner, Bowie, and Royal providing some quality play and veteran leadership from the bench (that would have been 93-94 i.e. Webber's rookie year).  Give Webber and Shaq a couple of seasons together and who knows how good they could have been.   

[hpantazo]

There's a recent 30:30 called "The Magic Moment" about Shaq and Penny's Magic team. They're both very involved and discuss their time playing together and individual careers afterward.

Shaq's statements seem to make it pretty clear that the trade was his decision. He had seen Penny play, thought they'd be a great fit, and wanted the team to draft him 1st.

I'm biased, as Penny was my favorite player of all time -- imagine seeing his, McGrady's, and even Steve Francis' careers had they not been derailed by injury? But I do highly recommend the documentary.

Well that's what happens when you allow players to influence front office decisions.

[Big333223]

Funny semi-off-topic thought on C-Webb: Was there any other player who had more what ifs throughout his entire career than him? What if he had played Robin to Shaq's Batman in Orlando? What if he had embraced his role as the small-ball 5 in Don Nelson's system? What if the Bullets hadn't flamed out when they had Webber, Juwan Howard, and Strickland all playing for them? What if C-Webb hadn't blown out his knee just as the Kings were piquing as a team?

Webber had a great career, but he could have done so much more in the league if he had just found the right team to play for throughout his entire career. Sure he found that on the Kings, but that was for a very brief amount of time.

Throw in: What if the refs hadn't handed the Lakers Game 6 in '02. How much differently do we think of Webber if he has a ring and a Finals MVP? Or what if, somehow, the team combusted and Jason Kidd got a ring? That'd be even crazier.

[jambr380]

Moranis convinced me - tp.  I reluctantly went with 'yes.' Penny was so good to start his career, but hard to argue with two dominant players like Shaq and Webber.

I also agree with the concept that Shaq wouldn't have been as 'intimidated' by Webber (meaning he would stay and and the Magic would be good enough to also keep Webber). Penny really was everywhere for a while.



The Magic would have experienced early success with either player based on lottery luck, but the Shaq-Webber big man duo would have been pretty killer.

[Moranis]

Funny semi-off-topic thought on C-Webb: Was there any other player who had more what ifs throughout his entire career than him? What if he had played Robin to Shaq's Batman in Orlando? What if he had embraced his role as the small-ball 5 in Don Nelson's system? What if the Bullets hadn't flamed out when they had Webber, Juwan Howard, and Strickland all playing for them? What if C-Webb hadn't blown out his knee just as the Kings were piquing as a team?

Webber had a great career, but he could have done so much more in the league if he had just found the right team to play for throughout his entire career. Sure he found that on the Kings, but that was for a very brief amount of time.

Throw in: What if the refs hadn't handed the Lakers Game 6 in '02. How much differently do we think of Webber if he has a ring and a Finals MVP? Or what if, somehow, the team combusted and Jason Kidd got a ring? That'd be even crazier.

Jason Kidd did get a ring with Dallas.  Obviously that was Dirk's team, but Kidd was still a pretty vital cog in that team.

[Donoghus]

Funny semi-off-topic thought on C-Webb: Was there any other player who had more what ifs throughout his entire career than him? What if he had played Robin to Shaq's Batman in Orlando? What if he had embraced his role as the small-ball 5 in Don Nelson's system? What if the Bullets hadn't flamed out when they had Webber, Juwan Howard, and Strickland all playing for them? What if C-Webb hadn't blown out his knee just as the Kings were piquing as a team?

Webber had a great career, but he could have done so much more in the league if he had just found the right team to play for throughout his entire career. Sure he found that on the Kings, but that was for a very brief amount of time.

Throw in: What if the refs hadn't handed the Lakers Game 6 in '02. How much differently do we think of Webber if he has a ring and a Finals MVP? Or what if, somehow, the team combusted and Jason Kidd got a ring? That'd be even crazier.

Jason Kidd did get a ring with Dallas.  Obviously that was Dirk's team, but Kidd was still a pretty vital cog in that team.

I think he's talking about the '02 Finals.  Kings would've played the Nets.

[fairweatherfan]

With Webber's high post game and passing and Shaq's utter destruction in the paint that would've been one of the best 4-5 combos ever seen, especially at such young ages. 

If they stay together and there are no major injuries they have a fighting chance to take out Jordan's Bulls in their 2nd 3peat and would've dominated after his retirement.

[Donoghus]

With Webber's high post game and passing and Shaq's utter destruction in the paint that would've been one of the best 4-5 combos ever seen, especially at such young ages. 

If they stay together and there are no major injuries they have a fighting chance to take out Jordan's Bulls in their 2nd 3peat and would've dominated after his retirement.

It would've been interesting to see who they could've added to the guard role a year or two in, to compliment those two. 

[Roy H.]

There's a recent 30:30 called "The Magic Moment" about Shaq and Penny's Magic team. They're both very involved and discuss their time playing together and individual careers afterward.

Shaq's statements seem to make it pretty clear that the trade was his decision. He had seen Penny play, thought they'd be a great fit, and wanted the team to draft him 1st.

I'm biased, as Penny was my favorite player of all time -- imagine seeing his, McGrady's, and even Steve Francis' careers had they not been derailed by injury? But I do highly recommend the documentary.

Well that's what happens when you allow players to influence front office decisions.

Even worse, as I recall, Shaq liked Penny because they were in Blue Chips together.

[Donoghus]

There's a recent 30:30 called "The Magic Moment" about Shaq and Penny's Magic team. They're both very involved and discuss their time playing together and individual careers afterward.

Shaq's statements seem to make it pretty clear that the trade was his decision. He had seen Penny play, thought they'd be a great fit, and wanted the team to draft him 1st.

I'm biased, as Penny was my favorite player of all time -- imagine seeing his, McGrady's, and even Steve Francis' careers had they not been derailed by injury? But I do highly recommend the documentary.

Well that's what happens when you allow players to influence front office decisions.

Even worse, as I recall, Shaq liked Penny because they were in Blue Chips together.

Heard he tried to coax Cooz out of retirement too. 

[Roy H.]

Worse than trading Webber was squandering the assets they got along with Penny. The picks ended up being Todd Fuller, Vince Carter, and Mike Miller.  Scott Skiles, Fuller and the pick that became Carter were traded for a future pick that became Keon Clark.

[Moranis]

Funny semi-off-topic thought on C-Webb: Was there any other player who had more what ifs throughout his entire career than him? What if he had played Robin to Shaq's Batman in Orlando? What if he had embraced his role as the small-ball 5 in Don Nelson's system? What if the Bullets hadn't flamed out when they had Webber, Juwan Howard, and Strickland all playing for them? What if C-Webb hadn't blown out his knee just as the Kings were piquing as a team?

Webber had a great career, but he could have done so much more in the league if he had just found the right team to play for throughout his entire career. Sure he found that on the Kings, but that was for a very brief amount of time.

Throw in: What if the refs hadn't handed the Lakers Game 6 in '02. How much differently do we think of Webber if he has a ring and a Finals MVP? Or what if, somehow, the team combusted and Jason Kidd got a ring? That'd be even crazier.

Jason Kidd did get a ring with Dallas.  Obviously that was Dirk's team, but Kidd was still a pretty vital cog in that team.

I think he's talking about the '02 Finals.  Kings would've played the Nets.

I know, but the way he made it seem like that would have been Kidd's only title, like Kidd got 1, but Kidd in fact did get 1.

[Moranis]

Worse than trading Webber was squandering the assets they got along with Penny. The picks ended up being Todd Fuller, Vince Carter, and Mike Miller.  Scott Skiles, Fuller and the pick that became Carter were traded for a future pick that became Keon Clark.

It wasn't Carter, it was the Keon Clark pick all along (Orlando actually had 12 and 13 that year their own and the one from the Penny trade - came away with Doleac and Clark).  They traded Skiles and the pick that became Fuller for a 2nd round pick so they could sign Horace Grant.

[Big333223]

Funny semi-off-topic thought on C-Webb: Was there any other player who had more what ifs throughout his entire career than him? What if he had played Robin to Shaq's Batman in Orlando? What if he had embraced his role as the small-ball 5 in Don Nelson's system? What if the Bullets hadn't flamed out when they had Webber, Juwan Howard, and Strickland all playing for them? What if C-Webb hadn't blown out his knee just as the Kings were piquing as a team?

Webber had a great career, but he could have done so much more in the league if he had just found the right team to play for throughout his entire career. Sure he found that on the Kings, but that was for a very brief amount of time.

Throw in: What if the refs hadn't handed the Lakers Game 6 in '02. How much differently do we think of Webber if he has a ring and a Finals MVP? Or what if, somehow, the team combusted and Jason Kidd got a ring? That'd be even crazier.

Jason Kidd did get a ring with Dallas.  Obviously that was Dirk's team, but Kidd was still a pretty vital cog in that team.

I think he's talking about the '02 Finals.  Kings would've played the Nets.

I know, but the way he made it seem like that would have been Kidd's only title, like Kidd got 1, but Kidd in fact did get 1.

You're right, I should've said that differently. What I meant was that if Kidd had gotten a ring as the best player on his team. But really, Sacramento would've been heavy heavy favorites in that matchup anyway.