Poll

From 1994 to 2000 If Shaq and Chris Webber were together they win 1 ring

Yes. You agree with me.
14 (63.6%)
No. I disagree with you KG. And that's ok.
8 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Author Topic: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic  (Read 3827 times)

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Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« on: September 28, 2016, 11:21:35 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 The ultimate best player available argument. The Magic trade Clearly the best player in the draft, for a percieved better fit.

 If you surround Shaq and Webber with three role players that shoot the three and play defense.

Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 11:23:45 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I voted "no" only because the wording for the option was pretty hilarious.
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Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 01:00:18 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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I voted "no" only because the wording for the option was pretty hilarious.




 Tp Tarheels, it's ok to disagree. You can disagree and show class at the same time.

Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 01:08:40 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I was disappointed when Orlando made that trade, but what are the chances they both stick around in Orlando long term?


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Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 01:11:30 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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I was disappointed when Orlando made that trade, but what are the chances they both stick around in Orlando long term?

 Pretty good after they win back to back championships. Shaq said he regretted leaving Orlando and a title would have sealed the deal.

Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 01:26:27 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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There's a recent 30:30 called "The Magic Moment" about Shaq and Penny's Magic team. They're both very involved and discuss their time playing together and individual careers afterward.

Shaq's statements seem to make it pretty clear that the trade was his decision. He had seen Penny play, thought they'd be a great fit, and wanted the team to draft him 1st.

I'm biased, as Penny was my favorite player of all time -- imagine seeing his, McGrady's, and even Steve Francis' careers had they not been derailed by injury? But I do highly recommend the documentary.
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Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 02:05:15 AM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Remember that around that time, the players had way too much power in contract negotiations with their teams. They essentially could dictate where they wanted to go. Chris Webber leaving Golden State after his rookie year and Shaq leaving Orlando after three years are the best of evidences of that era of young players. So, as Roy said, there was no guarantee those guys would have stayed together in Orlando.

However, it is an interesting hypothetical. If I remember correctly though, Shaq said on that 30 for 30 on the mid-90's Magic that he believed he and C-Webb would not have played well together on the Magic but we'll never know.

Funny semi-off-topic thought on C-Webb: Was there any other player who had more what ifs throughout his entire career than him? What if he had played Robin to Shaq's Batman in Orlando? What if he had embraced his role as the small-ball 5 in Don Nelson's system? What if the Bullets hadn't flamed out when they had Webber, Juwan Howard, and Strickland all playing for them? What if C-Webb hadn't blown out his knee just as the Kings were piquing as a team?

Webber had a great career, but he could have done so much more in the league if he had just found the right team to play for throughout his entire career. Sure he found that on the Kings, but that was for a very brief amount of time.

Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2016, 02:45:23 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Great post Johnny, Tp. What if Webber didn't call time out with the game on the line, and essentially lose the national championship for Michigan.

Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 07:53:42 AM »

Offline Who

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No -- (1) too difficult to surround them with sufficient perimeter talent (2) Shaq would have reduced Webber's effectiveness because Shaq spend 95% of his time within 10 feet of the basket so Webber would have lost a lot of his touches in the low to mid post area and would have been forced to spend too much time in the high post.

Trading Webber for Penny Hardaway was an excellent trade that improved Orlando considerably.

Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2016, 07:59:52 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Funny semi-off-topic thought on C-Webb: Was there any other player who had more what ifs throughout his entire career than him?
I don't know, Derrick Coleman could give Webber a run for his money I think

Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2016, 08:03:19 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Trading Webber for Penny Hardaway was an excellent trade that improved Orlando considerably.
have to agree.  Penny was the better fit and the Magic picked up 3 other first rounders too.  Unfortunately for them, Penny couldn't stay healthy and they blew those picks when they made them. 

If Penny stays healthy and Shaq stays, that alone with the rest of the supporting cast keeps Orlando in contention for years.  If they made better picks after that, they could have been possibly been the top team in the East for about a decade.

Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2016, 08:12:30 AM »

Offline Moranis

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what really killed the Magic was their failure to maximize the other draft picks. 

Remember the trade was

Chris Webber

for

Penny Hardaway, 1996 1st, 1998 1st, 2000 1st

The 96 pick was 11, the 98 pick was 13, and the 00 pick was 5.  The Magic traded the 96 pick and Scott Skiles for a 2nd round pick (in other words dumped the pick) and then drafted Keon Clark in 98 and Mike Miller in 2000.  Miller was the only acceptable pick and by then it was too late to do anything.  Had they kept the 96 pick, they could have drafted Kobe, Peja, or Nash, who went 13, 14, 15.  JO went 17.  Maybe the thought of playing with Kobe would have been enough to keep Shaq in Orlando especially as that was before Penny's injuries derailed his career. 

Now that said Shaq and Webber would have been an incredible duo down low. 
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Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 08:24:12 AM »

Online Donoghus

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I don't think so. 

Both of those guys were really young at the time and alphas.  I just don't know, at that age, if they would've meshed particularly well from a personality standpoint. Heck, you saw it with Shaq & Penny to an extent. Also,  do they get past New York in Webber's rookie year? Does Grant stay with Chicago, then? Does Chicago beat them in '95? What happens subsequently and does ORL still botch the Shaq contract negotiations?  Some interesting questions.


Now, early 2000s Shaq & Webber? My god, that would've been incredible to watch.


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Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2016, 08:50:25 AM »

Offline bdm860

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I think Shaq with just about any mix of NBA-caliber players would eventually win a championship.

Sure Hardaway along with workhorse Horace Grant (who wouldn't be there with Webber) were great fits next to O'Neal, but this is Shaq we're talking about, how much does the fit really matter as long as Shaq dominates?  Remember how weak the East was during Shaq's time in LA?  Very similar to LeBron's cakewalk to the Finals now.

So to me, the only question here is, does Webber on the Magic keep Shaq in Orlando?  From the recent  "Magic Moment" 30:30 special, as well as reading some of Shaq's books in the past, it seemed Shaq and Penny didn't get along too well after Penny became a superstar.  Also Penny got a new contract first, and Shaq says he went to bat for Penny telling management to pay him, but when it was time for Shaq's contract, Penny didn't do the same and that helped push Shaq out the door.

With Webber taking a while to find his groove (being injured in years 2-3), as well as being nowhere near as marketable as a prime-Penny was, I could see that being enough to keep Shaq around.  Shaq wouldn't be threatened by Webber's star power and media presence (or lack thereof), and ironically maybe less success in Orlando in those early years may actually have made Orlando more willing to pay Shaq.  With Shaq, Penny, and a Finals appearance in the franchise's 6th year, management might think hey this is easy and we'll be okay as we still have Penny and a good team.  But with Shaq, an injured Webber, and no Finals appearance, maybe Orlando's management is more willing to pay to keep Shaq, maybe building a successful team doesn't seem as easy to them?

So does Shaq go to LA no matter what?  If Orlando offered him a huge contract upfront does he stay?  Does playing with different teammates keep him around?  If anything keeps Shaq in Orlando, then Shaq would win a championship there, whether it's Hardaway, Webber, or Shawn Bradley.

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Re: Shaq, Webber Frontcourt guarantee's a title with the Magic
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 09:07:40 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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I said yes because Shaq and Webber were my favorite college players at that time and I really wanted to see them play together. But Penny was a hell of a player at the time so it's hard to say.