Author Topic: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."  (Read 38332 times)

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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #75 on: September 26, 2016, 11:33:31 PM »

Online kraidstar

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noel is really killing that team right now with these comments. what a disaster.

Well, that's a side effect of Philly utilizing the tanking/BPA strategy that they have. They haven't exactly endeared themselves to their players with the way they've dedicated themselves to losing.

Add to that a roster jam and you have some serious discontent brewing.

Think about it; if you're Noel, the team has been brutal the last few years, historically bad. The Sixers have actively avoided making their team better.

Noel is there, playing pretty hard, and then the Sixers continue to draft guys who play the same positions he does. So by the time they do get good he might have a greatly reduced role, not to mention a smaller chunk of the money. That's a slap in the face.

The Sixers should have seen this coming, they constructed this whole situation with their sta=rategy - a strategy which could still work for them

Gotta take the bad with the good.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #76 on: September 26, 2016, 11:45:00 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Noel for KO and Rozier no picks should happen.

If they have to many bigs why would they want KO?

If it becomes more more toxic it may just mean KO for Noel straight up. At least KO can shoot and would be able to play along embiid pretty comfortably. Without knowing what Saric can do they may not want KO though.
Shooting and passing big man to play along side and space floor for Simmons. Embid can replace Noel's defense if healthy. KO gives them a different type of center.

Regardless they have to many big men, so taking one back makes zero sense. Let me put it this way if you're a couple and are planning on having kids and you own 3 cars that are all 2 doors. You don't trade one of them in for a 2 door sports car you trade in for a minivan!

They don't have too many big men; they have too many big men who can't be on the floor at the same time.  It's like only your wife can drive stick but all three of your cars have a manual transmission.  You don't trade one in for a fancy, foreign sports car; you get something with an automatic.

ROFL. Well i disagree and clearly Noel does also that's why he mentioned it!

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #77 on: September 27, 2016, 12:32:25 AM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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No way the Nets picks are in play for a guy like Noel. They could take another solid player like Jerebko and Celtics picks to go with Rozier. That would be a fair trade. Noel is already complaining and is a restricted free agent next year making trouble this year. His value just dropped off of a cliff. He's not that good. Same with Okafor. Embiid is a big question mark. Philly is up the creek and headed for years like the Clippers used to have. They will get top picks every year yet remain terrible.

Danny should try to unload our picks. I guess it doesn't matter this year because we swap with Brooklyn. Get rid of those. The second round slots seem better than the late first round and that's where we'll be picking from here on out for about fifteen years. Danny is setting it up so that we win title after title and get complete separation from the Lakers. There will be debates on who was the best GM, Red or Danny.

The only way the Brooklyn pick or picks get traded is if it's for a fireworks trade. Philly has nothing close to that. We'll see if Embiid can play more games than Greg Oden.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #78 on: September 27, 2016, 12:46:30 AM »

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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #79 on: September 27, 2016, 01:05:52 AM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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No way the Nets picks are in play for a guy like Noel. They could take another solid player like Jerebko and Celtics picks to go with Rozier. That would be a fair trade. Noel is already complaining and is a restricted free agent next year making trouble this year. His value just dropped off of a cliff. He's not that good. Same with Okafor. Embiid is a big question mark. Philly is up the creek and headed for years like the Clippers used to have. They will get top picks every year yet remain terrible.

Danny should try to unload our picks. I guess it doesn't matter this year because we swap with Brooklyn. Get rid of those. The second round slots seem better than the late first round and that's where we'll be picking from here on out for about fifteen years. Danny is setting it up so that we win title after title and get complete separation from the Lakers. There will be debates on who was the best GM, Red or Danny.

The only way the Brooklyn pick or picks get traded is if it's for a fireworks trade. Philly has nothing close to that. We'll see if Embiid can play more games than Greg Oden.

Philly probably doesn't want our '18 and beyond picks (w/o a solid rookie not named Young) because of the position we are in that could make it a meh pick over the next few years (hopefully beyond). I think we only have 1 first for '17 (BKN thank you) so that's absolutely off the table at this point. If they did want a Celtics '18+ we would have a deal by now if the added player wasn't a major piece.

I think people are underestimating Roze's potential value to us w/ ET gone. If he can get his own and facilitate that could be crucial for us. IMO, we are the ones in the wait and see on Roze but would have given him up if we still had ET.
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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #80 on: September 27, 2016, 01:10:12 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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No way the Nets picks are in play for a guy like Noel. They could take another solid player like Jerebko and Celtics picks to go with Rozier. That would be a fair trade. Noel is already complaining and is a restricted free agent next year making trouble this year. His value just dropped off of a cliff. He's not that good. Same with Okafor. Embiid is a big question mark. Philly is up the creek and headed for years like the Clippers used to have. They will get top picks every year yet remain terrible.

Danny should try to unload our picks. I guess it doesn't matter this year because we swap with Brooklyn. Get rid of those. The second round slots seem better than the late first round and that's where we'll be picking from here on out for about fifteen years. Danny is setting it up so that we win title after title and get complete separation from the Lakers. There will be debates on who was the best GM, Red or Danny.

The only way the Brooklyn pick or picks get traded is if it's for a fireworks trade. Philly has nothing close to that. We'll see if Embiid can play more games than Greg Oden.

Philly probably doesn't want our '18 and beyond picks (w/o a solid rookie not named Young) because of the position we are in that could make it a meh pick over the next few years (hopefully beyond). I think we only have 1 first for '17 (BKN thank you) so that's absolutely off the table at this point. If they did want a Celtics '18+ we would have a deal by now if the added player wasn't a major piece.

I think people are underestimating Roze's potential value to us w/ ET gone. If he can get his own and facilitate that could be crucial for us. IMO, we are the ones in the wait and see on Roze but would have given him up if we still had ET.

Beyond that, I also think Danny still thinks he can trade for a Cousins, Love, or Milsap throughout the year. They're clearly better than Noel, though not necessarily better fits, so it wouldn't make sense to nab him and waste assets if you think you have a good shot at one of those later in the season.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #81 on: September 27, 2016, 01:27:30 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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He sounds annoyed.  He clearly wants out.  Tough situation for him... He's one of the best defensive prospects in the league.  He has the potential to anchor a team's defense.  And yet he's stuck in a situation where he might be the third string center on a team that should still be in the lotto next season.  You can't blame him for being salty.  Especially if it cuts into his minutes and impacts his free agency options next summer.   He wants minutes so he can get paid.

TP. That's what many of us have been saying this whole time, though I think they ultimately like Noel more than Okafor and would give him more minutes than Okafor. However, it looks like Noel is going to force their hand to trade him over Okafor anyways with all of this talk.
I don't blame Noel for being frustrated but that doesn't mean Philly "needs" to make a trade. They will almost certainly move someone when the time is right, but there is no gun to their head forcing them to take pennies on the dollar right now.  Despite how frustrated Noel is, it's probably still best for Philly to wait and see how things shake out.  If the offers are weak, they should just hang onto the guys - regardless of how salty Noel is.  That's what a lot of fans fail to understand when they come up with their silly lopsided trade offers.   15 mins out of Noel off the bench is better than trading him for a late 1st or a d-leaguer who will get 15 mins off the bench.

Disagree. Not only does this pretty much screw Philly with agents, who will not appreciate them screwing over Noel in a contract year, but it's obviously just going to decrease his trade value even more by (a) him barely playing and (b) being a locker room disturbance.

You can say they should hold out for a better option, but with the way things are going, it doesn't make any sense that the offers would go help with him hardly playing, having less time left on his contract, and him becoming a locker room issue.
You are assuming he barely plays, which I find highly unlikely.  I mean Philly has already gone on the record saying Embiid will not play back to backs and will be on a heavy minutes restriction (that is if he even manages to stay healthy all year).  I'm guessing Noel will play at least 24 minutes a night and would probably guess it more in the 30 minute range. 

Him being a lockerroom disturbance is on him and will only hurt his free agent value.
Where are these minutes coming from? Is Okafor not playing? There won't be any minutes at PF for him because of Simmons and you can't even bump Simmons to SF (which would be a bad idea anyway) because Saric is there. And Saric should really be playing some minutes at PF himself.

Noel is fighting 2 other guys who can only play center for 48 minutes a night.
2 of those 3 guys will play a fair amount of time at PF.  Simmons will play a lot at SF. 

There are 7,872 minutes available from the PF and C position.  I'd guess the end minutes are something like this:

Noel - 2300 - 75 games - 31 minutes
Okafor - 2300 - 75 games - 31 minutes
Embiid - 1440 - 60 games - 24 minutes
Simmons - 1600 (rest of time at SF) - 77 games - 21 minutes

and that still leaves 232 minutes
Yep.  Basically.   

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2016, 01:33:59 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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They don't need to do anything.  Plenty of minutes to go around.  It's not ideal, but who cares.  That team isn't threatening for a championship this year.

Imagine a scenario where Thomas and Bradley keep playing excellent basketball.  Pretend Marcus Smart actually makes his leap and looks like a starter.  Now let's also pretend that Terry Rozier's Summer League was legit and he's everything we hope he can be.  Let's say Terry Rozier looks like a legit starting PG in the handful of minutes he gets.  How's he getting starting guard minutes on a team with Thomas, Bradley and Smart all playing excellent ball? 

Now, because Rozier's minutes are limited and teams know Boston is desperate to move one of their PGs, should Boston trade him for a early 2nd rounder just for the sake of trading him?  No, of course not.  That doesn't help the team.  Better off just having Rozier play his 5-10 minutes per night at PG than give him away for pennies on the dollar.   In that scenario, Boston just hangs onto him until someone makes a legit offer or they figure out a way to get equal value for Thomas or Smart. 

Once you understand that, you'll understand why 99% of this board his no idea what they are talking about in regards to Philly's big man situation.   They'll probably trade one of those guys eventually, but it makes the most sense to play out the season and see if someone's trade value increases to the point that someone makes them an acceptable offer. 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 01:41:17 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2016, 01:50:08 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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They don't need to do anything.  Plenty of minutes to go around.  It's not ideal, but who cares.  That team isn't threatening for a championship this year.

Imagine a scenario where Thomas and Bradley keep playing excellent basketball.  Pretend Marcus Smart actually makes his leap and looks like a starter.  Now let's also pretend that Terry Rozier's Summer League was legit and he's everything we hope he can be.  Let's say Terry Rozier looks like a legit starting PG in the handful of minutes he gets.  How's he getting starting guard minutes on a team with Thomas, Bradley and Smart all playing excellent ball? 

Now, because Rozier's minutes are limited and teams know Boston is desperate to move one of their PGs, should Boston trade him for a early 2nd rounder just for the sake of trading him?  No, of course not.  That doesn't help the team.  Better off just having Rozier play his 5-10 minutes per night at PG than give him away for pennies on the dollar.   In that scenario, Boston just hangs onto him until someone makes a legit offer or they figure out a way to get equal value for Thomas or Smart. 

Once you understand that, you'll understand why 99% of this board his no idea what they are talking about in regards to Philly's big man situation.   They'll probably trade one of those guys eventually, but it makes the most sense to play out the season and see if someone's trade value increases to the point that someone makes them an acceptable offer.

I lolled. Good one lb

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2016, 01:53:58 AM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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No way Noel didn't voice his opinion with them privately b4 now. Him saying it to the media only means Philly doesn't care what he thinks and has told him as much. LOL
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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #85 on: September 27, 2016, 02:35:40 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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They don't need to do anything.  Plenty of minutes to go around.  It's not ideal, but who cares.  That team isn't threatening for a championship this year.

Imagine a scenario where Thomas and Bradley keep playing excellent basketball.  Pretend Marcus Smart actually makes his leap and looks like a starter.  Now let's also pretend that Terry Rozier's Summer League was legit and he's everything we hope he can be.  Let's say Terry Rozier looks like a legit starting PG in the handful of minutes he gets.  How's he getting starting guard minutes on a team with Thomas, Bradley and Smart all playing excellent ball? 

Now, because Rozier's minutes are limited and teams know Boston is desperate to move one of their PGs, should Boston trade him for a early 2nd rounder just for the sake of trading him?  No, of course not.  That doesn't help the team.  Better off just having Rozier play his 5-10 minutes per night at PG than give him away for pennies on the dollar.   In that scenario, Boston just hangs onto him until someone makes a legit offer or they figure out a way to get equal value for Thomas or Smart. 

Once you understand that, you'll understand why 99% of this board his no idea what they are talking about in regards to Philly's big man situation.   They'll probably trade one of those guys eventually, but it makes the most sense to play out the season and see if someone's trade value increases to the point that someone makes them an acceptable offer.




Perhaps that's because Smart, Rozier, and Bradley can all effectively play two (or even three in Smart's case) positions, and Okafor, Noel, and Embiid are all pure 5's that can neither play the 4 nor play together.

Combine that with the fact that both Saric and Simmons are clearly 4's that simply can't play the 3 (though Simmons could play small-ball 5), let alone Covington that will also have time at the small-ball 4, and, no, there simply isn't enough minutes to go around, and keeping all of them is going to do nothing but start locker room issues (as we're seeing play out before our eyes) and lower their trade value even more by them either not getting sufficient minutes or having to play out of position with a poor fitting frontcourt mate.

Ah, that Sam Hinkie team-building logic, though!
 

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #86 on: September 27, 2016, 02:41:06 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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They don't need to do anything.  Plenty of minutes to go around.  It's not ideal, but who cares.  That team isn't threatening for a championship this year.

Imagine a scenario where Thomas and Bradley keep playing excellent basketball.  Pretend Marcus Smart actually makes his leap and looks like a starter.  Now let's also pretend that Terry Rozier's Summer League was legit and he's everything we hope he can be.  Let's say Terry Rozier looks like a legit starting PG in the handful of minutes he gets.  How's he getting starting guard minutes on a team with Thomas, Bradley and Smart all playing excellent ball? 

Now, because Rozier's minutes are limited and teams know Boston is desperate to move one of their PGs, should Boston trade him for a early 2nd rounder just for the sake of trading him?  No, of course not.  That doesn't help the team.  Better off just having Rozier play his 5-10 minutes per night at PG than give him away for pennies on the dollar.   In that scenario, Boston just hangs onto him until someone makes a legit offer or they figure out a way to get equal value for Thomas or Smart. 

Once you understand that, you'll understand why 99% of this board his no idea what they are talking about in regards to Philly's big man situation.   They'll probably trade one of those guys eventually, but it makes the most sense to play out the season and see if someone's trade value increases to the point that someone makes them an acceptable offer.




Perhaps that's because Smart, Rozier, and Bradley can all effectively play two (or even three in Smart's case) positions, and Okafor, Noel, and Embiid are all pure 5's that can neither play the 4 nor play together.

Combine that with the fact that both Saric and Simmons are clearly 4's that simply can't play the 3 (though Simmons could play small-ball 5), let alone Covington that will also have time at the small-ball 4, and, no, there simply isn't enough minutes to go around, and keeping all of them is going to do nothing but start locker room issues (as we're seeing play out before our eyes) and lower their trade value even more by them either not getting sufficient minutes or having to play out of position with a poor fitting frontcourt mate.

Ah, that Sam Hinkie team-building logic, though!
Hinkie collected assets.  It remains to be seen how it fits together.  They have time to figure it out.  Embiid might be able to play PF.  Simmons might be able to play PG or SF.  They'll figure it out eventually, but there's no urgency to give away their guys for nothing.  Just like there's no urgency for us to give away Terry Rozier for a 3rd round pick just because that's the only offer we'd get for him right now.

It'll be interesting if Philly makes the playoffs this year.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2016, 07:16:15 AM »

Online moiso

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They don't need to do anything.  Plenty of minutes to go around.  It's not ideal, but who cares.  That team isn't threatening for a championship this year.

Imagine a scenario where Thomas and Bradley keep playing excellent basketball.  Pretend Marcus Smart actually makes his leap and looks like a starter.  Now let's also pretend that Terry Rozier's Summer League was legit and he's everything we hope he can be.  Let's say Terry Rozier looks like a legit starting PG in the handful of minutes he gets.  How's he getting starting guard minutes on a team with Thomas, Bradley and Smart all playing excellent ball? 

Now, because Rozier's minutes are limited and teams know Boston is desperate to move one of their PGs, should Boston trade him for a early 2nd rounder just for the sake of trading him?  No, of course not.  That doesn't help the team.  Better off just having Rozier play his 5-10 minutes per night at PG than give him away for pennies on the dollar.   In that scenario, Boston just hangs onto him until someone makes a legit offer or they figure out a way to get equal value for Thomas or Smart. 

Once you understand that, you'll understand why 99% of this board his no idea what they are talking about in regards to Philly's big man situation.   They'll probably trade one of those guys eventually, but it makes the most sense to play out the season and see if someone's trade value increases to the point that someone makes them an acceptable offer.




Perhaps that's because Smart, Rozier, and Bradley can all effectively play two (or even three in Smart's case) positions, and Okafor, Noel, and Embiid are all pure 5's that can neither play the 4 nor play together.

Combine that with the fact that both Saric and Simmons are clearly 4's that simply can't play the 3 (though Simmons could play small-ball 5), let alone Covington that will also have time at the small-ball 4, and, no, there simply isn't enough minutes to go around, and keeping all of them is going to do nothing but start locker room issues (as we're seeing play out before our eyes) and lower their trade value even more by them either not getting sufficient minutes or having to play out of position with a poor fitting frontcourt mate.

Ah, that Sam Hinkie team-building logic, though!
Hinkie collected assets.  It remains to be seen how it fits together.  They have time to figure it out.  Embiid might be able to play PF.  Simmons might be able to play PG or SF.  They'll figure it out eventually, but there's no urgency to give away their guys for nothing.  Just like there's no urgency for us to give away Terry Rozier for a 3rd round pick just because that's the only offer we'd get for him right now.

It'll be interesting if Philly makes the playoffs this year.
Like it will be interesting if Golden State loses 73 games this year.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #88 on: September 27, 2016, 07:52:43 AM »

Offline Moranis

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It's too bad that Noel doesn't understand the situation as well as a certain poster around here.  Then he'd know there was no problem at all.

Mike
He doesn't understand the situation at all obviously.  Otherwise he wouldn't have opened his mouth further diminishing his own trade value and making it more likely he gets stuck there. 

I'm beginning to think that Noel is just really dumb.  Like all time level dumb.

Or, he could be telling Philly to trade him NOW, no matter the return, or he'll Greg Monroe them next year.

Mike
And then Philly gets two more years of him, which doesn't seem like a bad deal for Philly.  If Noel really wanted out, he wouldn't crush his own value, because it makes it far less likely he is the guy that gets moved.

Classic Hinkie-think.  Yeah, keeping an unhappy lottery pick on the roster for two years when he's surrounded by other very young players couldn't possibly go wrong.

And try and understand this logic.  If Noel gets traded NOW, he gets an entire season with a new team to up the value of his next contract.  If he stays in Philly for this season, even if he gets traded at the deadline, his value will continue to decline.  Or the alternative, he wants one of the other bigs traded NOW.  Not at the trade deadline.  Not next offseason.  NOW.

It is in Noel's best interest to get something done as quickly as possible, so it makes perfect sense to try and up the pressure on Philly to do something as quickly as possible.  It's not like anyone has given him any reason to trust that his current management knows what the heck they are doing.

Mike
But it doesn't serve Philly's purpose if you destroy your value.  That is the point I'm making.  I understand fully why Noel would want out, but he is going about it the wrong way.
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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2016, 09:06:23 AM »

Offline MBunge

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It's too bad that Noel doesn't understand the situation as well as a certain poster around here.  Then he'd know there was no problem at all.

Mike
He doesn't understand the situation at all obviously.  Otherwise he wouldn't have opened his mouth further diminishing his own trade value and making it more likely he gets stuck there. 

I'm beginning to think that Noel is just really dumb.  Like all time level dumb.

Or, he could be telling Philly to trade him NOW, no matter the return, or he'll Greg Monroe them next year.

Mike
And then Philly gets two more years of him, which doesn't seem like a bad deal for Philly.  If Noel really wanted out, he wouldn't crush his own value, because it makes it far less likely he is the guy that gets moved.

Classic Hinkie-think.  Yeah, keeping an unhappy lottery pick on the roster for two years when he's surrounded by other very young players couldn't possibly go wrong.

And try and understand this logic.  If Noel gets traded NOW, he gets an entire season with a new team to up the value of his next contract.  If he stays in Philly for this season, even if he gets traded at the deadline, his value will continue to decline.  Or the alternative, he wants one of the other bigs traded NOW.  Not at the trade deadline.  Not next offseason.  NOW.

It is in Noel's best interest to get something done as quickly as possible, so it makes perfect sense to try and up the pressure on Philly to do something as quickly as possible.  It's not like anyone has given him any reason to trust that his current management knows what the heck they are doing.

Mike
But it doesn't serve Philly's purpose if you destroy your value.  That is the point I'm making.  I understand fully why Noel would want out, but he is going about it the wrong way.

He doesn't care what Philly does or doesn't want.  He's also pretty clearly tired of waiting for Philly to do something.  He just wants out or he wants one or more of the other bigs gone.  Trying to up the pressure on Philly is a logical move.

Mike