Author Topic: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?  (Read 9181 times)

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Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2016, 03:45:00 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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It's bad business to give him the max, which will be ridiculous, but he is the best thing to happen to the city of Boston since Larry Bird (with no disrespect to Ortiz and Pierce)

Definitely one of the wackiest posts I've seen on the internet. Once he said no disrespect to Oritz and Pierce, it made me think that he was serious. IT prob does not crack the top 20 of best things to happen to the city of Boston in just the last 10 years. Zero playoff series wins for IT in Boston.

Am I happy he is here? Yes. Is he irreplaceable? Certainly not.

TB12 and Big Papi will both be on Boston sports' Mt Rushmore. Isaiah? He will likely play for the Celtics for 4 years and then follow the $.

It is to be seen with Isaiah Thomas. Pierce wasn't flashy in Isaiah style, but he was a Hall of Famer who won us the Finals. Ortiz is most definitely on the short list for Boston Sports Mount Rushmores.

Isaiah has potential to reach their levels. If it's allowed, I'd restructure his contract, so it turns into 20-25 million/year up to age 32, something like that. Otherwise, it is bad luck for Isaiah his age doesn't line up with maximizing free agency.

Isaiah is the opposite of Marcus Smart. He is a potential height liability on defense, yet potential all-time greatness on offense.

The report card for Isaiah Thomas is incomplete. We will find out if he takes it to the next level. Why not? Why wouldn't Isaiah's full potential be realized if that's something Brad Stevens is good at?

His situation will play out naturally. It's nothing to worry about. We are hungry for real games and results. That is all this is.

The key is to score one more point than the other team. That will probably decide whether Isaiah gets his fancy $30 million payday all things considered. If we are winning a lot of games going with Isaiah, then he is definitely worthy of Brinks Truck consideration.

Now if someone else emerges or somehow it's not Isaiah in a couple years, I'll analyze it then. It makes no sense to do so now.

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2016, 04:20:25 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I don't think the market will force his price up to $25M range (although I am usually wrong and salaries always end up higher than I think).  I think we can get him on a more reasonable deal and I would be fine with that.  If he walks for a big deal I am OK with that.

This is what I am thinking. IT is fresh off of a solid all-star season where he was still ranked #45 in the NBA. As he ages, I don't see that number rising. We were able to obtain a guy going for 20+ppg and 6+apg on decent efficiency and an amazing contract for essentially an RJ Hunter level pick.

I think he will always be one of those guys (because of his height) that teams will never want to give up too much for. If Danny plays his cards right and lets IT test the market first, I will be surprised if we need to pay him more than $15M/yr. It's not Danny's fault that IT signed a crappy contract. In this case it will be all about timing (of his first contract and of his next when he will just about be 30).

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2016, 04:28:31 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I think there is not much difference between what Ainge would offer IT and what he would offer a 6'2" PG with the same level of offensive and defensive production.

I suspect this is correct.
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Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2016, 04:41:54 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think there is not much difference between what Ainge would offer IT and what he would offer a 6'2" PG with the same level of offensive and defensive production.

I suspect this is correct.

Assuming this is the case, Isaiah's level of production -- and whether or not that production slips compared to the last couple of years -- will make a big difference.

I'd say that 19-20 pts and 5-6 assists with plenty of free throws and 57% TS is worthy of a max contract, even if the defense is a question-mark.  I wouldn't be surprised if Isaiah stays at that level this season and next, so long as he avoids any major injuries.  I'm less confident he'll remain at that level much beyond his 30th birthday.
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Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2016, 05:27:52 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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It'd be nice to save some dough if it could be used elsewhere but I'd pay thomas the max instead of losing him. We'd be horrendous without him.

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2016, 05:28:47 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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Imagine trying to get shots off with no thomas or Turner. Talk about cringeworthy.

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2016, 05:48:42 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I would if we have another starting quality PG in place where as Thomas enters his 30s he can take the 6th man role, or if by not signing Thomas means we can go after a younger max free agent which is unlikely after next offseason when there won't be significant jumps in cap space. 

Of course I would still be open to offers for anything that would be hard to turn down.

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2016, 07:24:51 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Imagine trying to get shots off with no thomas or Turner. Talk about cringeworthy.

Which is why I still think Turner's departure is being underrated.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2016, 10:20:42 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I don't think the market will force his price up to $25M range (although I am usually wrong and salaries always end up higher than I think).  I think we can get him on a more reasonable deal and I would be fine with that.  If he walks for a big deal I am OK with that.

This is what I am thinking. IT is fresh off of a solid all-star season where he was still ranked #45 in the NBA. As he ages, I don't see that number rising. We were able to obtain a guy going for 20+ppg and 6+apg on decent efficiency and an amazing contract for essentially an RJ Hunter level pick.

I think he will always be one of those guys (because of his height) that teams will never want to give up too much for. If Danny plays his cards right and lets IT test the market first, I will be surprised if we need to pay him more than $15M/yr. It's not Danny's fault that IT signed a crappy contract. In this case it will be all about timing (of his first contract and of his next when he will just about be 30).

There are plenty of guys that made serious money this offseason that are not as good as IT. Guys like Chandler Parsons, Ryan Anderson, Joakim Noah, and Luol Deng just landed deals in the $20m range and Mike Conley got 5 yrs at $153m. I don't think it's a stretch if IT secures a 3-4 yr deal at $25m per.

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2016, 08:12:09 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I don't think the market will force his price up to $25M range (although I am usually wrong and salaries always end up higher than I think).  I think we can get him on a more reasonable deal and I would be fine with that.  If he walks for a big deal I am OK with that.

This is what I am thinking. IT is fresh off of a solid all-star season where he was still ranked #45 in the NBA. As he ages, I don't see that number rising. We were able to obtain a guy going for 20+ppg and 6+apg on decent efficiency and an amazing contract for essentially an RJ Hunter level pick.

I think he will always be one of those guys (because of his height) that teams will never want to give up too much for. If Danny plays his cards right and lets IT test the market first, I will be surprised if we need to pay him more than $15M/yr. It's not Danny's fault that IT signed a crappy contract. In this case it will be all about timing (of his first contract and of his next when he will just about be 30).

There are plenty of guys that made serious money this offseason that are not as good as IT. Guys like Chandler Parsons, Ryan Anderson, Joakim Noah, and Luol Deng just landed deals in the $20m range and Mike Conley got 5 yrs at $153m. I don't think it's a stretch if IT secures a 3-4 yr deal at $25m per.

I guess I shouldn't have used the word 'surprise' as your scenario isn't a stretch at all. I just think that there are going to be a lot of gun-shy gms around the league when it comes to paying an aging IT. His value has always been low, even right now, I am just not sure there are going to be a lot of Thomas suitors when it comes time to be a FA. And, frankly, I don't really think it's fair.

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2016, 11:27:05 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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Just because other teams have ponied up a ton of money to players who dont deserve it, doesnt mean that we should also. I kind of hope and think that we have a GM who doesnt jump off the bridge with all the other GMs. As others have said, I dont see the latter parts of ITs projected deal being worth it. I could see investing that much in Isaiah as one of the fundamental mistakes that undermine this awesome rebuild so far.

If he takes one for the team and takes a 15 mil per year to help lead the younger guys and eventually become that super 6th man, I love it.

But do you really want to pay IT 25 per/ 4 years? Would you pay an aging Jamal Crawford in his late 20s an almost max? If you took jamal and slapped him on the celtics at that age in ITs shoes, he probably has very similar offensive stats (less playmaking probably.)
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Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2016, 11:43:45 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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To early to tell still

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2016, 12:18:58 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Just because other teams have ponied up a ton of money to players who dont deserve it, doesnt mean that we should also. I kind of hope and think that we have a GM who doesnt jump off the bridge with all the other GMs. As others have said, I dont see the latter parts of ITs projected deal being worth it. I could see investing that much in Isaiah as one of the fundamental mistakes that undermine this awesome rebuild so far.

If he takes one for the team and takes a 15 mil per year to help lead the younger guys and eventually become that super 6th man, I love it.

But do you really want to pay IT 25 per/ 4 years? Would you pay an aging Jamal Crawford in his late 20s an almost max? If you took jamal and slapped him on the celtics at that age in ITs shoes, he probably has very similar offensive stats (less playmaking probably.)

If we are close to or over the cap already if we signed him for 15 mil or 25 mil a year it doesn't really hinder us in other moves, only if we tried to trade him directly.  I guess if we were to go over the luxury if we signed him to 25 mil verses 15 mil maybe ownership would hesitate but I believe they have showed they would go over the luxury tax in the past. 

For this year I believe the gap between cap space and the tax is 20 mil so there is wiggle room if we don't want to go over the tax. In the end if we are contending even if we have a declining Thomas for the last couple years of his contract I think I would be fine with 25 mil. Shoot Hoford probably won't be the same player in year 4 of his contract than he is now, and I think most are fine with the deal.  Horford's contract would also end in year 2 of Thomas's new deal, which would give us more flexibility.

Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2016, 01:20:09 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Just because other teams have ponied up a ton of money to players who dont deserve it, doesnt mean that we should also.
If we want to compete in the FA market, then actually, it is indeed because other teams have ponied up a ton of money that , yes, we may have to.

The word, "deserve" is a tough one.   Per the CBA, the players collectively "deserve" just a hair under half of all Basketball Related Income (BRI).   So those checks are going to get written.   The guy you think deserves it may not be deserving in the eyes of the fan sitting next to you.  But ultimately, if a GM thinks a player deserves it, then he does.
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Re: Do most people think that the Celtics Won't Pay up for Isaiah Thomas?
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2016, 06:13:56 PM »

Offline detour

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"The league’s last 25 champions had starting point guards with an average salary accounting for only 11.3 percent of that year’s cap. That’s the equivalent of $10.6 million (or, nearly, Austin Rivers’s 2016–17 salary) under this season’s enormous $94.1 million salary cap. Only two of the championship point guards have accounted for slightly over "20 percent of a cap (Tony Parker in 2014 and Irving in 2016), and only Parker was the highest-paid player on his team. Instead of splurging on star free-agent point guards, general managers of Finals winners have typically leaned on young 1s (Rajon Rondo, B.J. Armstrong, early-’00s Parker) or PGs on inexpensive deals (Derek Fisher, Mario Chalmers, Avery Johnson), paying the spared funds to stars at different positions and key role players."

Kevin O'Connor wrote this recently in Ringer as he discusses the advantages of grabbing a rookie point guard in 2017 draft. It seems that paying IT a large chunk of salary cap, considering his age is not that logical - if history holds.

Full article: https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft-point-guards-markelle-fultz-dennis-smith-jr-ef66c2bf3653#.ey58ayic0