Poll: Marcus for Nerlens straight up

[KG Living Legend]

 Brought up in the other thread so I wanted to see it by the numbers.

 I do think it's somewhat fair. Noel needs to be paid sooner but they both are going to get big money.

 So who would you rather extend for big $, Smart or Noel.

[alldaboston]

Haven't we done this before?

[tarheelsxxiii]

Both project to be elite defensively and suck offensively. Can't wait to read the rebuttals about Smart's promise on that end.

So what's more valuable, a defensive specialist that's 6'4", or one that's 6'11"?  Doesn't seem to be equal value to me at all, KGLL.

[KG Living Legend]

Both project to be elite defensively and suck offensively. Can't wait to read the rebuttals about Smart's promise on that end.

So what's more valuable, a defensive specialist that's 6'4", or one that's 6'11"?  Doesn't seem to be equal value to me at all, KGLL.

 First off this was Zach Harper of CBS sports idea.

 Secondly Smart still projects to have better offensive production and value at least 15 ppg and 5 Apg.

 Third you control Smart's Deal for longer and it's cheaper.

 Fourth we have to many guards and there have to many Center's. It's not perfect but it does make some sense.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Both project to be elite defensively and suck offensively. Can't wait to read the rebuttals about Smart's promise on that end.

So what's more valuable, a defensive specialist that's 6'4", or one that's 6'11"?  Doesn't seem to be equal value to me at all, KGLL.

 First off this was Zach Harper of CBS sports idea.

 Secondly Smart still projects to have better offensive production and value at least 15 ppg and 5 Apg.

 Third you control Smart's Deal for longer and it's cheaper.

 Fourth we have to many guards and there have to many Center's. It's not perfect but it does make some sense.

I know, I read LB's quotes from the article. And agree that Smart projects to be better offensively... but he's given no reason to believe he won't suck on that end since he was at Ok State.

True, re: contract. I think there's a team option next year, and I'm sure Noel will get paid. But, if both were RFA's this year (hypothetically), who would you be more comfortable shelling out money for?

Agreed -- I'm all for a Noel trade. I'd ship Smart for him, straight up, in a heartbeat. While I value all his contributions, my gut says he'll be moved if we land a star, due to both his strengths (e.g., defense, perceived upside) and weaknesses.

[LarBrd33]

Haven't we done this before?

It doesn't go away.  We've been talking about it for two years.

It might surprise some people to hear I'm on the fence about this despite arguing in favor of it for the past couple years.   

The good:   Smart has been historically bad shooting.  Defensive impact from guards pales in comparison to defensive impact from a legit rim protector.  I believe if Noel continues to develop, you can build a top-level defense around him.  He looks like a future DPOY candidate and should improve with better supporting cast.  While Horford is a huge addition, he's still not a rim protector.  Add Noel to the mix and we should be the best defensive team in the league (though that might already be true)... it's not like we'd be losing offensive firepower with Smart gone.  And I'm interested to see what Rozier can do with more minutes (as well as possibly Young or Hunter)... possibly even Gerald Green or Jaylen Brown could slot in as a SG in some lineups. 

The bad:  I've spent too much time on this forum.  I've been brainwashed into believing that Marcus Smart still has untapped potential and may break-out this season.  It really has to happen this year, though.  I haven't lost hope.  Year 3 is a big one for a lot of prospects.  I see this is a make or break year for Smart - really would prefer to hang onto him.   Another small concern is that Noel will be owed money next year and that could eat into our cap - HOWEVER... it's less of a concern than people want to make it out to be.  He's a restricted free agent.  We'd have a pocket of time to still go after a high level free agent after offering Noel his qualifying offer.  I had previously believed that adding Noel would kill our necessary cap space to go after a star next SUmmer - that doesn't appear to be the case.

It's probably a win for Boston.   I still don't see the reason Philly does it.  They are desperate for shooting so they can improve their teams spacing.  Smart offers nothing (so far) on that end.  They'd be gambling on Smart making the offensive leap we all hope he can make.

It would be bitter sweet if this happened.  If forced to decide, I'm pulling the trigger.  I love Marcus, though and really want to see him succeed in Boston.    A player like Noel will always be important in this league despite offensive limitations.  Guards need to be able to score in this league though.

[LarBrd33]

Haven't we done this before?

It doesn't go away.  We've been talking about it for two years.

It might surprise some people to hear I'm on the fence about this despite arguing in favor of it for the past couple years.   

The good:   Smart has been historically bad shooting.  Defensive impact from guards pales in comparison to defensive impact from a legit rim protector.  I believe if Noel continues to develop, you can build a top-level defense around him.  He looks like a future DPOY candidate and should improve with better supporting cast.  While Horford is a huge addition, he's still not a rim protector.  Add Noel to the mix and we should be the best defensive team in the league (though that might already be true)... it's not like we'd be losing offensive firepower with Smart gone.  And I'm interested to see what Rozier can do with more minutes (as well as possibly Young or Hunter)... possibly even Gerald Green or Jaylen Brown could slot in as a SG in some lineups. 

The bad:  I've spent too much time on this forum.  I've been brainwashed into believing that Marcus Smart still has untapped potential and may break-out this season.  It really has to happen this year, though.  I haven't lost hope.  Year 3 is a big one for a lot of prospects.  I see this is a make or break year for Smart - really would prefer to hang onto him.   Another small concern is that Noel will be owed money next year and that could eat into our cap - HOWEVER... it's less of a concern than people want to make it out to be.  He's a restricted free agent.  We'd have a pocket of time to still go after a high level free agent after offering Noel his qualifying offer.  I had previously believed that adding Noel would kill our necessary cap space to go after a star next SUmmer - that doesn't appear to be the case.

It's probably a win for Boston.   I still don't see the reason Philly does it.  They are desperate for shooting so they can improve their teams spacing.  Smart offers nothing (so far) on that end.  They'd be gambling on Smart making the offensive leap we all hope he can make.

It would be bitter sweet if this happened.  If forced to decide, I'm pulling the trigger.  I love Marcus, though and really want to see him succeed in Boston.    A player like Noel will always be important in this league despite offensive limitations.  Guards need to be able to score in this league though.

If anyone else is on the fence, I'd ask them to consider the following...

Let's pretend that Gordan Hayward signing in Boston next Summer is a lock.   How does that change your opinion of our depth chart going forward?  Hayward has played a bunch of shooting guard throughout his career... would you see him starting next to Thomas and Crowder?  Does that move Bradley to the bench?  Where does Smart factor into the lineup at that point?  How about Rozier, Hunter, Young?...  Would Noel potentially have more minutes available than Smart would in a post-Hayward lineup?

[tarheelsxxiii]

^ Actual thoughts behind my unsubstantiated judgments.

And seem to agree that Hayward would make the decision easier.  Blue collar, defensive-oriented team with a chip on their shoulder is our identity for the foreseeable future (and I dig it), but there's a luxury to having so many defensive guys -- we can flip one (probably our best prospect as a player) to improve offensively. 

[jpotter33]

Big fans of both, and I think they have a pretty similar value right now, which would make a fair trade. That said, I probably wouldn't do it, mostly because Smart is my binkie, though Noel is my non-Celtic binkie.

However, if Smart doesn't show improvement this year offensively as the leader/ball-handler of the second unit, then I'd probably pull the trigger at the deadline. Smart definitely has a much higher two-way potential than Noel, but if he gets the opportunity to succeed this year and still doesn't show much improvement, then he'll probably never be more than a Tony Allen-like high level defensive role player. Noel's potential to anchor a league-leading defense in the middle is probably more valuable to us long term than Smart's perimeter D, which is definitely special but expendable with Rozier, Brown, Bradley, and Crowder.

Best case scenario is for both Smart and Rozier to make a leap this year, and we use Rozier and the Memphis pick as the trade bait for Noel.

[tarheelsxxiii]

^Agreed, a Rozier leap would be huge for the team. Trade value improves, but he's also intriguing right now. He could end up a bust, but would you imagine his ceiling to be on par with D. Schroeder? Different skill sets, yeah, but question is specific to their potential contributions at PG, regardless of how they do it.

[jpotter33]

^Agreed, a Rozier leap would be huge for the team. Trade value improves, but he's also intriguing right now. He could end up a bust, but would you imagine his ceiling to be on par with D. Schroeder? Different skill sets, yeah, but question is specific to their potential contributions at PG, regardless of how they do it.

Yeah, Schroeder is a really good comp for him potential-wise. Their abilities are similar, too, though Schroeder is more of a traditional point guard and Rozier a scoring guard.

[tarheelsxxiii]

^Agreed, a Rozier leap would be huge for the team. Trade value improves, but he's also intriguing right now. He could end up a bust, but would you imagine his ceiling to be on par with D. Schroeder? Different skill sets, yeah, but question is specific to their potential contributions at PG, regardless of how they do it.

Yeah, Schroeder is a really good comp for him potential-wise. Their abilities are similar, too, though Schroeder is more of a traditional point guard and Rozier a scoring guard.

And if he can score half as well as he rebounds, a Smart & Rozier lead 2nd-unit could be devastating.

[Ilikesports17]

Smart is easily my favorite player. Plus I think hes got the clutch gene and real knack for the big play.  Now you can say these are green tinted glasses but a) hes the only guy on the team who I think really has it and b) it is a bias and one of the many reasons its good I dont run the Celtics.

I think the contract stuff is actually pretty important. With Marcus, we dont pay him for another year. With Noel its gotta be this year. With Marcus we can add a max guy in either of the next two FA periods and still resign everyone. With Noel wed only get 1.

[Csfan1984]

Keep Smart and sign Noel as a RFA next year. Doubt 76ers match anything above $10 million. Noel isn't in their long term plans.

[TheSundanceKid]

If you harbour any hope of a big name free agent in either 2017 or 18 then you don't make this deal