Author Topic: 2016 NFL Season  (Read 12893 times)

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2016 NFL Season
« on: September 09, 2016, 12:00:54 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Well, in tonight's opener we got a game that was a dang sight better than the last real NFL game we saw.

Still ....

You gotta love that last-minute, brutal, helmet-to-helmet torpedo hit on one of the game's biggest stars, with no real consequences, just to remind you how freaking stupid the NFL is.

https://vine.co/v/5Jzvjw1Peaz


This should be a SUSPENSION.  Period.  They cannot keep allowing this type of play.  It has to be out of the game. 


Ah well.  NFL is back! For whatever that's worth.
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Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 08:19:45 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Here are some highlights of the amazingly skilled defensive plays the Broncos made on Cam last night.

https://twitter.com/its__Extreme/status/774108019466444800?s=09
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2016, 09:34:36 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I was pretty shocked the Broncos didn't draw more flags.

Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 09:42:04 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Marshall hit was textbook personal foul conduct.  So that was pretty egregious.

All things being said, its good to having meaningful NFL football back even if the league office & much of the officiating is a farce.


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Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 11:38:56 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I was pretty shocked the Broncos didn't draw more flags.

Seems that there are always teams who build a reputation as a "great defensive team," which then allows them to get away with a lot more.

The Ravens, Jets, and 49ers a few years ago were like that.  More recently, the Seahawks and now the Broncos.


I'm not anti-defense, I just want the best defensive plays to involve tactics that require skill.

You don't need a lot of skill to launch yourself helmet-first at an opposing player, especially when they player is facing away from you, or is immobilized by another defender wrapped around his lower legs.

Yet those launching hits tend to do a huge amount of damage, whether in terms of twisting / impact injuries to bones and ligaments, or repeated concussive impacts to the head and upper body.


How about you play great defense by way of speed, intelligence, positioning, strength, and great tackling technique?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 11:44:26 AM by PhoSita »
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 11:39:28 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I was pretty shocked the Broncos didn't draw more flags.

I guess it's kinda like LeBron hardly ever getting fouls called on him擁f you're known as a great player (or in this case a great defensive unit), you get away with a lot of crap.
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Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 11:43:01 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I was pretty shocked the Broncos didn't draw more flags.

I guess it's kinda like LeBron hardly ever getting fouls called on him擁f you're known as a great player (or in this case a great defensive unit), you get away with a lot of crap.

Here's the thing I don't get about this, though -- Cam Newton is the reigning league MVP, one of the league's biggest stars.

Why doesn't the NFL prioritize protecting him from getting bombarded repeatedly by defenders flying at him full-speed, helmet-first?

In the NBA, yes the stars get some crazy calls, but at least the bias of the referees is toward protecting the stars from excessive physical contact.  Because sure, to really stop a guy like LeBron, or Shaq in his day, or whoever, you need to resort to excessively physical play. 

But I'd rather watch a game where the opponent is simply getting overpowered by a superlative physical talent, rather than watch a star player get hacked and beaten up to the point he literally can't see straight.
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Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 01:32:31 PM »

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Here are some highlights of the amazingly skilled defensive plays the Broncos made on Cam last night.

https://twitter.com/its__Extreme/status/774108019466444800?s=09

I am kind of torn on some of these. I feel like the last one was ridiculous. However, some of the other ones it does seem like they are aiming for his body and Cam lowered his head. There are two challenges here. One is that there is a benefit to hitting the quarterback as hard as possible, even mid tackle because there is a decent chance this leads to a fumble.

The other thing that I don't really know how to handle is that Cam Newton does regularly break tackles and get 5 more yards and is one of the biggest guys on the field. Sometimes it takes multiple players and a really hard hit to bring him down. In all the years watching Brady, Manning and Brees I never saw them plow through a defender and run up the field for a critical first down.

On the other hand, it is hard to advocate calling the game differently for different players based on their skillset.

Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 03:05:06 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree that some players -- Gronk and Newton are the best examples I can think of -- make it hard to call the game the same way because of how physically gifted they are.

In that situation, I'd prefer to err on the side of calling the rules in a way that allows the offensive player to make plays, rather than allow the defensive players to resort to extremely dangerous tactics that can take the offensive player out of the game entirely.

The analogy I'd make to the NBA is players like Shaq -- would you rather watch Shaq score 50 on 70% shooting, or watch defenders endlessly hack and foul him?  I don't like either option, but I'd prefer the first one.  And in football, you don't get free throws.  At the very least, these types of hits should result in a 1st down and 10-15 yards.


I really don't think this is so hard to identify.  Defensive players should not be allowed to "launch."  Period.  It's dangerous for all players involved.  You make a good tackle, or you don't.  You don't lead with your helmet, and you don't turn yourself into a missile to try and knock them down.

This should apply to offensive players, too.  Far too often I see offensive players lower their helmet toward the defender when they can see they are about to get hit. 

All of this, I believe, is why some studies have indicated that football is actually less dangerous when the players don't have helmets on.  When you don't have a helmet, you actually try to protect your own head!
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 03:07:34 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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NFL is following the example set by beloved commissioner david stern.

That game was rigged last night to keep it close for maximum ratings. You can feel which way the refs will go based on the score.

NBA has been doing this for many years, the TNT and ESPN games are officiated for tight finishes to maximize excitement. The old "NBA Jam" effect, only it's the refs rigging it, instead of the computer.

Of course stars are prone to getting more calls... but in the moment the league just needs eyeballs watching, and no-one wants to see the broncos getting drubbed 30-10 at home on opening day.

Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 03:14:51 PM »

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NFL is following the example set by beloved commissioner david stern.

That game was rigged last night to keep it close for maximum ratings. You can feel which way the refs will go based on the score.

NBA has been doing this for many years, the TNT and ESPN games are officiated for tight finishes to maximize excitement. The old "NBA Jam" effect, only it's the refs rigging it, instead of the computer.

Of course stars are prone to getting more calls... but in the moment the league just needs eyeballs watching, and no-one wants to see the broncos getting drubbed 30-10 at home on opening day.

I'm not really sure where there would be the idea that the Panthers were super hosed by the refs last night to the point of 20 point swing. I would say that Carolina was actually really fortunate to have a 10 point lead at the half. The defensive lineman catching that interception on the sack is the kind of play you constantly see opportunities for defensive linemen to make but they also really rarely catch the ball. The Broncos also had a fumble early in the game that was pretty close to the red zone. The yardage was also pretty even throughout the game. I think by all accounts that should have been a close game and not a blowout.

Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 03:19:00 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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The Marshall hit was textbook personal foul conduct.  So that was pretty egregious.

All things being said, its good to having meaningful NFL football back even if the league office & much of the officiating is a farce.
Yeah overall its a really good game.

Though when you reflect how Cam wasn't checked for a concussion at any point during that game it shows that their "protocols" still aren't going to take primacy over the product.

Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 03:19:07 PM »

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I agree that some players -- Gronk and Newton are the best examples I can think of -- make it hard to call the game the same way because of how physically gifted they are.

In that situation, I'd prefer to err on the side of calling the rules in a way that allows the offensive player to make plays, rather than allow the defensive players to resort to extremely dangerous tactics that can take the offensive player out of the game entirely.

The analogy I'd make to the NBA is players like Shaq -- would you rather watch Shaq score 50 on 70% shooting, or watch defenders endlessly hack and foul him?  I don't like either option, but I'd prefer the first one.  And in football, you don't get free throws.  At the very least, these types of hits should result in a 1st down and 10-15 yards.


I really don't think this is so hard to identify.  Defensive players should not be allowed to "launch."  Period.  It's dangerous for all players involved.  You make a good tackle, or you don't.  You don't lead with your helmet, and you don't turn yourself into a missile to try and knock them down.

This should apply to offensive players, too.  Far too often I see offensive players lower their helmet toward the defender when they can see they are about to get hit. 

All of this, I believe, is why some studies have indicated that football is actually less dangerous when the players don't have helmets on.  When you don't have a helmet, you actually try to protect your own head!

I agree with the launching. That needs to stop. However, some of the other stuff is harder like when a guy is lowering his head to break a tackle and then gets hit in the head. To go back to the foul shooting this is kind of how i think about it and why it is tough to make a decision. It is probably one of the most common expressions in basketball to say "make em earn it at the line." It is considered a good play if you contest a layup and end up fouling the player in a way that the contact prevents the shooter from having any chance of making the basket.

With a player like Lebron or Shaq, it takes more contact to achieve that goal. If you do a light contest and Lebron still easily makes the layup it becomes an awful play instead. So should the players not be allowed to do fouls that impact Lebron the same way they impact other player's chance of making a shot? I don't necessarily know there is a simple answer to that...   

Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2016, 03:26:16 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Marshall hit was textbook personal foul conduct.  So that was pretty egregious.

All things being said, its good to having meaningful NFL football back even if the league office & much of the officiating is a farce.
Yeah overall its a really good game.

Though when you reflect how Cam wasn't checked for a concussion at any point during that game it shows that their "protocols" still aren't going to take primacy over the product.

But they'll make [dang] sure they know that cold weather naturally cause the air pressure to decrease in footballs..... oh wait, nevermind.


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Re: 2016 NFL Season
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 04:42:13 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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With a player like Lebron or Shaq, it takes more contact to achieve that goal. If you do a light contest and Lebron still easily makes the layup it becomes an awful play instead. So should the players not be allowed to do fouls that impact Lebron the same way they impact other player's chance of making a shot? I don't necessarily know there is a simple answer to that...

I think you gotta draw the line at conduct that pretty obviously has a high chance of resulting in injury, whether on an individual hit basis, or on a cumulative basis.

In basketball, it's like when you see guys, quite literally, jumping on Deandre Jordan's back to commit the foul.  That's a bit much.

In football, I understand that it may skew the game towards offensive players, but I want to see them enforce rules that require the players to actually learn to practice sound tackling technique, rather than running at full speed and leading with the helmet like a ram in mating season.




It seems obvious to me that the Broncos defenders had a clear plan to work in concert to rattle and wear out Cam Newton as much as possible, so that by the end of the game Cam couldn't do what he is capable of doing in the first quarter.  Indeed, I think I read quotes to that effect.  They basically admit that's what they're trying to do.

The NFL is going to have a tough time rooting out that sort of strategic behavior.  At the very least, they need to make it carry a very high in-game cost.  If you want to take the wind out of Cam's sails by ramming him in the head and knocking him on his behind multiple times, you should be ready to give up some 15 yard penalties resulting in a 1st down.  And you should be prepared for some of your key guys to get tossed and possibly even suspended for a game or two if any of the hits is truly egregious.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 04:47:22 PM by PhoSita »
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain