Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"

[LarBrd33]

This really isn't news.  Everyone is well aware that Okafor and Noel weren't able to show their star potential when forced to share time together.  Everyone knows they are open to trading one of them.  Everyone knows that at some point they will probably move one.

What's not mentioned in this article, but generally accepted by everyone, is that Philly probably isn't getting great offers for either player right now. 

My point has been that Philly doesn't actually NEED to trade either right now.  Especially if the offers are weak.  They can (and probably should) go into this season with all their bigs, see how things shake out, see if either of those guys makes a leap, see if one of those guys forms great chemistry with the new players (Embiid, Saric, Simmons, etc), see if offers improve, and make an educated decision when the time is right.   Whatever weak offers they are getting now will probably still be available to them at the trade deadline. 

Like the rest of everyone here, I hope Boston is the team that snags one of these star big man prospects.  It's a little cringe-worthy to celebrate the perceived lack of trade value when neither has yet been traded.  If a pennies on the dollar trade is made such as Okafor for Smart + Rozier, then you can celebrate the acquisition of a potential offensive phenom big man.  Until then, Philly holds the chips and anyone who wants one of those bigs has to meet their demands.

[Donoghus]

The main problem is that Okafor is trash and it seems like a lot of teams are able to realize that, so they can't trade Okafor as easily as they wish.  Their best bet might be to wait until the next draft and move Okafor to a team that missed out on one of their intended big man targets, then re-sign Noel.  I think they'd be better off making Okafor come off the bench in a reduced role rather than trading him for the sake of trading him at the trade deadline if it means accepting a paltry return.

I don't think he's necessarily "trash".  It's more that he's pretty flawed and has a skillset that isn't totally conducive for today's NBA.   He & Noel are terrible complements to each other.  Remove one from the other & match them with a different type of frontcourt mate & I think you'll see better results from both of them. 

The league knows this and it certainly hamstrings Philly's leverage in potential trades.

[LarBrd33]

The main problem is that Okafor is trash and it seems like a lot of teams are able to realize that, so they can't trade Okafor as easily as they wish.  Their best bet might be to wait until the next draft and move Okafor to a team that missed out on one of their intended big man targets, then re-sign Noel.  I think they'd be better off making Okafor come off the bench in a reduced role rather than trading him for the sake of trading him at the trade deadline if it means accepting a paltry return.

I don't think he's necessarily "trash".  It's more that he's pretty flawed and has a skillset that isn't totally conducive for today's NBA.   He & Noel are terrible complements to each other.  Remove one from the other & match them with a different type of frontcourt mate & I think you'll see better results from both of them. 

The league knows this and it certainly hamstrings Philly's leverage in potential trades.

Philly doesn't have leverage to force a trade. But none of the teams that want Okafor/Noel have leverage to force Philly to make a trade either.   Philly is likely "gambling" that someone will come knocking with a legitimate offer they find acceptable.  If the entire league calls their bluff and refuses to make a legitimate offer, Philly will have a tough decision between cashing in one of those guys for a paltry return - or just keeping them in roles that aren't ideal.   

Nobody really has delusions of Philly contending this season one way or the other, so I don't really think it matters. 

There's people here who think Okafor's trade value is a late 1st rounder.  I guess the idea is that Embiid will be such a phenom that there will be minimal minutes left for a guy like Okafor.  So the suggestion is that they need to trade Okafor for someone like RJ Hunter or something.  Ask yourself, is Philly better off having Okafor backing up Embiid and playingy 15-20 minutes off the bench or having someone like RJ Hunter fight for minutes off the bench with Nik Stauskas?   It just doesn't make sense to me that Philly would give away one of these guys for the sake of giving one away - unless things are so hostile and dangerous behind the scenes that making a move has become absolutely necessary.   

[LarBrd33]

I've always been suspicious about the strategy of drafting the best player available. I know many GM's and coaches "say" that's how they draft, but this is an example where it didn't work.

When trading partners realize you "need" to trade a position player because you're too deep at that position, the value of the player reduces, as we're seeing in this situation.

It's obvious that GM's around the league know the 76er need to trade one of the many young center they've collected, and are taking advantage of the situation. 

Kind of similar to collecting too many future draft picks.

That certainly seems to be the narrative, but last I checked Okafor and Noel were both on the 76ers... so teams don't seem to be taking advantage of the situation very well.

The longer they are on there there worse it becomes for the 76ers.

Not really, though.  There's a better than decent chance the offers improve.

[footey]

I really think the Embiid set back last summer really hurt the Sixers.  I don't think they were really planning on tanking last year and I don't think they would have taken Okafor if Embiid was healthy.  I also don't think Porzingis made much sense either so I think if they couldn't trade the pick they would have gone with Mudiay (they really wanted Russell, but the Lakers ruined that one).  But when Embiid went down again, Okafor became a fairly logical pick because at the time I think they believed Noel and Okafor would have been ok together (maybe not a great fit, but not the terrible fit they ended up being) and because they didn't know if Embiid was ever going to play.

Why didn't Porzingis make sense? Seems like he matched up much better with Noel than Okafor does.

[footey]

Devaluation of Philly's assets has less to do with the glut of centers on their team, than the devaluation of the traditional, back to the center player, that has occurred the last several years. 

[celticsclay]

I've always been suspicious about the strategy of drafting the best player available. I know many GM's and coaches "say" that's how they draft, but this is an example where it didn't work.

When trading partners realize you "need" to trade a position player because you're too deep at that position, the value of the player reduces, as we're seeing in this situation.

It's obvious that GM's around the league know the 76er need to trade one of the many young center they've collected, and are taking advantage of the situation. 

Kind of similar to collecting too many future draft picks.

That certainly seems to be the narrative, but last I checked Okafor and Noel were both on the 76ers... so teams don't seem to be taking advantage of the situation very well.

The longer they are on there there worse it becomes for the 76ers.

Not really, though.  There's a better than decent chance the offers improve.

you cut off the whole part of my text (including where i acknowledged your great detective work) to point out the possibility that Noel may demand a trade sooner rather than later which would make the offers get worse.

[celticsclay]

The main problem is that Okafor is trash and it seems like a lot of teams are able to realize that, so they can't trade Okafor as easily as they wish.  Their best bet might be to wait until the next draft and move Okafor to a team that missed out on one of their intended big man targets, then re-sign Noel.  I think they'd be better off making Okafor come off the bench in a reduced role rather than trading him for the sake of trading him at the trade deadline if it means accepting a paltry return.

I don't think he's necessarily "trash".  It's more that he's pretty flawed and has a skillset that isn't totally conducive for today's NBA.   He & Noel are terrible complements to each other.  Remove one from the other & match them with a different type of frontcourt mate & I think you'll see better results from both of them. 

The league knows this and it certainly hamstrings Philly's leverage in potential trades.

Philly doesn't have leverage to force a trade. But none of the teams that want Okafor/Noel have leverage to force Philly to make a trade either.   Philly is likely "gambling" that someone will come knocking with a legitimate offer they find acceptable.  If the entire league calls their bluff and refuses to make a legitimate offer, Philly will have a tough decision between cashing in one of those guys for a paltry return - or just keeping them in roles that aren't ideal.   

Nobody really has delusions of Philly contending this season one way or the other, so I don't really think it matters. 

There's people here who think Okafor's trade value is a late 1st rounder.  I guess the idea is that Embiid will be such a phenom that there will be minimal minutes left for a guy like Okafor.  So the suggestion is that they need to trade Okafor for someone like RJ Hunter or something.  Ask yourself, is Philly better off having Okafor backing up Embiid and playingy 15-20 minutes off the bench or having someone like RJ Hunter fight for minutes off the bench with Nik Stauskas?   It just doesn't make sense to me that Philly would give away one of these guys for the sake of giving one away - unless things are so hostile and dangerous behind the scenes that making a move has become absolutely necessary.   

[/b]
This is probably the exact fear. Okafor last year was driving 120 on a bridge. He had a gun held to his head at a club. He started multiple street brawls. Whatever is going on down there is making him an absolute ticking time bomb with some sort of death wish. If he is there still mid season what does he start doing? Playing Russian roulette in texas? Noel has been a little more reserved but was still making weed and gatorade cocktails and trashing his house in some perverse effort to be free of the stress of playing for Philly. He even threatened a landowner with a tombstone just to feel alive. They got to unload these guys before things get anymore dangerous for both these guys and the community around them.

[LarBrd33]

The main problem is that Okafor is trash and it seems like a lot of teams are able to realize that, so they can't trade Okafor as easily as they wish.  Their best bet might be to wait until the next draft and move Okafor to a team that missed out on one of their intended big man targets, then re-sign Noel.  I think they'd be better off making Okafor come off the bench in a reduced role rather than trading him for the sake of trading him at the trade deadline if it means accepting a paltry return.

I don't think he's necessarily "trash".  It's more that he's pretty flawed and has a skillset that isn't totally conducive for today's NBA.   He & Noel are terrible complements to each other.  Remove one from the other & match them with a different type of frontcourt mate & I think you'll see better results from both of them. 

The league knows this and it certainly hamstrings Philly's leverage in potential trades.

Philly doesn't have leverage to force a trade. But none of the teams that want Okafor/Noel have leverage to force Philly to make a trade either.   Philly is likely "gambling" that someone will come knocking with a legitimate offer they find acceptable.  If the entire league calls their bluff and refuses to make a legitimate offer, Philly will have a tough decision between cashing in one of those guys for a paltry return - or just keeping them in roles that aren't ideal.   

Nobody really has delusions of Philly contending this season one way or the other, so I don't really think it matters. 

There's people here who think Okafor's trade value is a late 1st rounder.  I guess the idea is that Embiid will be such a phenom that there will be minimal minutes left for a guy like Okafor.  So the suggestion is that they need to trade Okafor for someone like RJ Hunter or something.  Ask yourself, is Philly better off having Okafor backing up Embiid and playingy 15-20 minutes off the bench or having someone like RJ Hunter fight for minutes off the bench with Nik Stauskas?   It just doesn't make sense to me that Philly would give away one of these guys for the sake of giving one away - unless things are so hostile and dangerous behind the scenes that making a move has become absolutely necessary.   

[/b]
This is probably the exact fear. Okafor last year was driving 120 on a bridge. He had a gun held to his head at a club. He started multiple street brawls. Whatever is going on down there is making him an absolute ticking time bomb with some sort of death wish. If he is there still mid season what does he start doing? Playing Russian roulette in texas? Noel has been a little more reserved but was still making weed and gatorade cocktails and trashing his house in some perverse effort to be free of the stress of playing for Philly. He even threatened a landowner with a tombstone just to feel alive. They got to unload these guys before things get anymore dangerous for both these guys and the community around them.

Yeah based on that, it seems Okafor's trade value can only go up.  I think he's still their starting center.  Maybe he makes a leap in his second year. 

[Moranis]

I really think the Embiid set back last summer really hurt the Sixers.  I don't think they were really planning on tanking last year and I don't think they would have taken Okafor if Embiid was healthy.  I also don't think Porzingis made much sense either so I think if they couldn't trade the pick they would have gone with Mudiay (they really wanted Russell, but the Lakers ruined that one).  But when Embiid went down again, Okafor became a fairly logical pick because at the time I think they believed Noel and Okafor would have been ok together (maybe not a great fit, but not the terrible fit they ended up being) and because they didn't know if Embiid was ever going to play.

Why didn't Porzingis make sense? Seems like he matched up much better with Noel than Okafor does.

Because they had Noel, Embiid (maybe), and Saric (at some point).  They didn't really need a big man, but obviously felt Okafor was so much better than everyone else available at 3 that they had to take him (if they couldn't find a reasonable trading partner, which they didn't).  I think they believed that Noel would be a fine defensive PF with Okafor at center, and offensively Okafor had enough range to work with Noel on that end.  Porzingis was projected to have more range, but not nearly as versed an offensive game as Okafor and while a better defender, wasn't considered quick enough to really guard opposing PF's (so Noel would have been doing that anyway).  Now obviously, Porzingis was better than advertised, but I don't think going into the draft he really made any more sense than Okafor for Philly, except most people felt Okafor was better.  I do think the Sixers really wanted Russell and he would have been their no brainer selection if he was still there at 3, but when he was gone, Okafor became in their minds the obvious choice.  Again though with Embiid healthy I don't think they pick either Okafor or Porzingis and would have gone with Mudiay.  The Embiid injury and the Lakers selection of Russell really through Philly for a loop.

[dannyboy35]

I really think the Embiid set back last summer really hurt the Sixers.  I don't think they were really planning on tanking last year and I don't think they would have taken Okafor if Embiid was healthy.  I also don't think Porzingis made much sense either so I think if they couldn't trade the pick they would have gone with Mudiay (they really wanted Russell, but the Lakers ruined that one).  But when Embiid went down again, Okafor became a fairly logical pick because at the time I think they believed Noel and Okafor would have been ok together (maybe not a great fit, but not the terrible fit they ended up being) and because they didn't know if Embiid was ever going to play.

Purely from a fan of the NBA standpoint it's a real shame Embiid, Yao Ming, and Greg Oden all have had these injuries. It'd be nice to have some great centers.

[LarBrd33]

I really think the Embiid set back last summer really hurt the Sixers.  I don't think they were really planning on tanking last year and I don't think they would have taken Okafor if Embiid was healthy.  I also don't think Porzingis made much sense either so I think if they couldn't trade the pick they would have gone with Mudiay (they really wanted Russell, but the Lakers ruined that one).  But when Embiid went down again, Okafor became a fairly logical pick because at the time I think they believed Noel and Okafor would have been ok together (maybe not a great fit, but not the terrible fit they ended up being) and because they didn't know if Embiid was ever going to play.

Purely from a fan of the NBA standpoint it's a real shame Embiid, Yao Ming, and Greg Oden all have had these injuries. It'd be nice to have some great centers.

Looks like there are a lot of positive signs about embiid this summer, but who knows if he will stay healthy.  Probably a good reason for Philly to take the "wait and see" approach before moving one of their bigs.

[celticsclay]

The main problem is that Okafor is trash and it seems like a lot of teams are able to realize that, so they can't trade Okafor as easily as they wish.  Their best bet might be to wait until the next draft and move Okafor to a team that missed out on one of their intended big man targets, then re-sign Noel.  I think they'd be better off making Okafor come off the bench in a reduced role rather than trading him for the sake of trading him at the trade deadline if it means accepting a paltry return.

I don't think he's necessarily "trash".  It's more that he's pretty flawed and has a skillset that isn't totally conducive for today's NBA.   He & Noel are terrible complements to each other.  Remove one from the other & match them with a different type of frontcourt mate & I think you'll see better results from both of them. 

The league knows this and it certainly hamstrings Philly's leverage in potential trades.

Philly doesn't have leverage to force a trade. But none of the teams that want Okafor/Noel have leverage to force Philly to make a trade either.   Philly is likely "gambling" that someone will come knocking with a legitimate offer they find acceptable.  If the entire league calls their bluff and refuses to make a legitimate offer, Philly will have a tough decision between cashing in one of those guys for a paltry return - or just keeping them in roles that aren't ideal.   

Nobody really has delusions of Philly contending this season one way or the other, so I don't really think it matters. 

There's people here who think Okafor's trade value is a late 1st rounder.  I guess the idea is that Embiid will be such a phenom that there will be minimal minutes left for a guy like Okafor.  So the suggestion is that they need to trade Okafor for someone like RJ Hunter or something.  Ask yourself, is Philly better off having Okafor backing up Embiid and playingy 15-20 minutes off the bench or having someone like RJ Hunter fight for minutes off the bench with Nik Stauskas?   It just doesn't make sense to me that Philly would give away one of these guys for the sake of giving one away - unless things are so hostile and dangerous behind the scenes that making a move has become absolutely necessary.   

[/b]
This is probably the exact fear. Okafor last year was driving 120 on a bridge. He had a gun held to his head at a club. He started multiple street brawls. Whatever is going on down there is making him an absolute ticking time bomb with some sort of death wish. If he is there still mid season what does he start doing? Playing Russian roulette in texas? Noel has been a little more reserved but was still making weed and gatorade cocktails and trashing his house in some perverse effort to be free of the stress of playing for Philly. He even threatened a landowner with a tombstone just to feel alive. They got to unload these guys before things get anymore dangerous for both these guys and the community around them.

Yeah based on that, it seems Okafor's trade value can only go up.  I think he's still their starting center.  Maybe he makes a leap in his second year.

what if he ends up in jail or worse? Surely these are such troubling signs for a young man, a cry for help if you will. Guns, streets brawls, drag racing?

[LarBrd33]

I really think the Embiid set back last summer really hurt the Sixers.  I don't think they were really planning on tanking last year and I don't think they would have taken Okafor if Embiid was healthy.  I also don't think Porzingis made much sense either so I think if they couldn't trade the pick they would have gone with Mudiay (they really wanted Russell, but the Lakers ruined that one).  But when Embiid went down again, Okafor became a fairly logical pick because at the time I think they believed Noel and Okafor would have been ok together (maybe not a great fit, but not the terrible fit they ended up being) and because they didn't know if Embiid was ever going to play.

Why didn't Porzingis make sense? Seems like he matched up much better with Noel than Okafor does.

Because they had Noel, Embiid (maybe), and Saric (at some point).  They didn't really need a big man, but obviously felt Okafor was so much better than everyone else available at 3 that they had to take him (if they couldn't find a reasonable trading partner, which they didn't).  I think they believed that Noel would be a fine defensive PF with Okafor at center, and offensively Okafor had enough range to work with Noel on that end.  Porzingis was projected to have more range, but not nearly as versed an offensive game as Okafor and while a better defender, wasn't considered quick enough to really guard opposing PF's (so Noel would have been doing that anyway).  Now obviously, Porzingis was better than advertised, but I don't think going into the draft he really made any more sense than Okafor for Philly, except most people felt Okafor was better.  I do think the Sixers really wanted Russell and he would have been their no brainer selection if he was still there at 3, but when he was gone, Okafor became in their minds the obvious choice.  Again though with Embiid healthy I don't think they pick either Okafor or Porzingis and would have gone with Mudiay.  The Embiid injury and the Lakers selection of Russell really through Philly for a loop.

Okafor was a safe pick at 3.  The assumption being they could move him for value when they were ready.  The perception is now that it was a bad gamble that didn't pay off - though it's not unthinkable that Okafor will make a leap this year.  If anything, I think porzingis is slightly overrated right now and Okafor is underrated.

[LarBrd33]

The main problem is that Okafor is trash and it seems like a lot of teams are able to realize that, so they can't trade Okafor as easily as they wish.  Their best bet might be to wait until the next draft and move Okafor to a team that missed out on one of their intended big man targets, then re-sign Noel.  I think they'd be better off making Okafor come off the bench in a reduced role rather than trading him for the sake of trading him at the trade deadline if it means accepting a paltry return.

I don't think he's necessarily "trash".  It's more that he's pretty flawed and has a skillset that isn't totally conducive for today's NBA.   He & Noel are terrible complements to each other.  Remove one from the other & match them with a different type of frontcourt mate & I think you'll see better results from both of them. 

The league knows this and it certainly hamstrings Philly's leverage in potential trades.

Philly doesn't have leverage to force a trade. But none of the teams that want Okafor/Noel have leverage to force Philly to make a trade either.   Philly is likely "gambling" that someone will come knocking with a legitimate offer they find acceptable.  If the entire league calls their bluff and refuses to make a legitimate offer, Philly will have a tough decision between cashing in one of those guys for a paltry return - or just keeping them in roles that aren't ideal.   

Nobody really has delusions of Philly contending this season one way or the other, so I don't really think it matters. 

There's people here who think Okafor's trade value is a late 1st rounder.  I guess the idea is that Embiid will be such a phenom that there will be minimal minutes left for a guy like Okafor.  So the suggestion is that they need to trade Okafor for someone like RJ Hunter or something.  Ask yourself, is Philly better off having Okafor backing up Embiid and playingy 15-20 minutes off the bench or having someone like RJ Hunter fight for minutes off the bench with Nik Stauskas?   It just doesn't make sense to me that Philly would give away one of these guys for the sake of giving one away - unless things are so hostile and dangerous behind the scenes that making a move has become absolutely necessary.   

[/b]
This is probably the exact fear. Okafor last year was driving 120 on a bridge. He had a gun held to his head at a club. He started multiple street brawls. Whatever is going on down there is making him an absolute ticking time bomb with some sort of death wish. If he is there still mid season what does he start doing? Playing Russian roulette in texas? Noel has been a little more reserved but was still making weed and gatorade cocktails and trashing his house in some perverse effort to be free of the stress of playing for Philly. He even threatened a landowner with a tombstone just to feel alive. They got to unload these guys before things get anymore dangerous for both these guys and the community around them.

Yeah based on that, it seems Okafor's trade value can only go up.  I think he's still their starting center.  Maybe he makes a leap in his second year.

what if he ends up in mail or worse? Surely these are such troubling signs for a young man, a cry for help if you will. Guns, streets brawls, drag racing?

If we had Okafor we wouldn't trade him for the type of offers we've been coming up with.   I'd rather lose a late 1st round pick for nothing than abandon a player of okafor's caliber after a single decent season.