Author Topic: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?  (Read 8898 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2016, 11:56:41 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9658
  • Tommy Points: 323
Super-athletic but never had the basketball mind to match, and was a terrible shooter to boot. The poster child for much of what's wrong with today's NBA.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2016, 12:38:48 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
He was exposed as a net negative player.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2016, 02:29:33 AM »

Offline Smartacus

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2112
  • Tommy Points: 318
Guys like Kobe, Dirk, and KG add to their games and age them when necessary.

Kobe picked up post moves from Hakeem. KG became a great floor spacer with that high release jump shot opening up the paint for Rondo and Pierce. Dirk kept up that crazy pliometric Holger Geschwindner training and old man strengthed his way to a title.

30 year old Josh Smith still tries to play like Rookie Josh Smith, he was a unique talent with his athletesim but now that it's declined he's marginalized because never picked up that Karl Malone like bully ball game. FWIW he has one of the great too 10 feels out there.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qF7SE5kETlw

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2016, 03:04:29 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
He had a really unique play style that doesn't work in every system.  Similar to someone like Rondo.  Just doesn't work everywhere.

Bingo.

Smith reminds me a lot of Sully.

Josh Smith actually has pretty solid BBIQ and talent.  He's always been a pretty good rebounder, always had exceptional court vision and passing ability for a big man.  Always been a good ball handler.  Has the talent to be an elite defender.  He's extremely skilled and has higher BBIQ then he's given credit for.

BUT Josh Smith has never seen a shot he didn't like.  If he's got an open three he'll take it, even if he's a 25% shooter.  Even if another guy has a better shot.  Even if his three isn't really all that open. 

He also doesn't seem like he's ever really "wanted it" as much as the next guy.  Feels like he's out there to collect his cheque, have some fun, go home.  He doesn't appear to  have the competitive drive to want to win, to want to be the best he can be.

In this league the guys who lack talent but who REALLY want it, tend to beat out the guys who have talent and don't really care that much.  When he's locked in and motivated, Smith is an absolute monster -  a triple double machine.  That just doesn't come very often at all.

Hence my comparison with Sully.

You can cover up some of Josh Smith's weaknesses by playing him STRICTLY in the paint as a pure PF/C and utilizing his inside scoring, rebounding, shot-blocking and passing ability.  He can still be quite effective in that type of role.  The instant you put up at the SF spot and stand him out around the perimeter you're asking for trouble, and sadly that's what a lot of teams seem to do.

Based on talent and IQ alone, Smith should be a better version of Paul Millsap.  Instead he's drifting towards Lamar Odom minus the jump shot.

It's a path Ben Simmons may well follow along if he's not careful, as he reminds me of Josh Smith in a lot of ways.  I hope that's not the case, because that kid has a TON of promise.

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2016, 06:44:11 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33431
  • Tommy Points: 1532
Athletically reliant player who once he lost a good bit of that athleticism made his poor shot selection, inability to stretch the floor, lackadaisical effort, and unreliable team defense simply too much for the decreased productivity.

On the defense part, I always thought he got away with the notion of being a good defensive player because his unreal athleticism generated a lot of blocks and steals. However, he was always a guy that didn't really have a good understanding of defense and got by because he was so athletic. Again, once that was lost there really wasn't much actual skill there, on either side of the floor.
TP.  This is absolutely correct.  Just a poor fundamental player who relied on athleticism and now has lost some of that athleticism. 

That said, I wouldn't mind signing him to a camp contract to see if he can perform.  Might be better than keeping someone like Hunter who probably won't turn into much of anything.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2016, 07:36:04 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
You can only coast so long on your athletic ability.  Smith had athletic ability but lack skills.

Quote
Smith reminds me a lot of Sully.

Josh Smith actually has pretty solid BBIQ and talent.  He's always been a pretty good rebounder, always had exceptional court vision and passing ability for a big man.  Always been a good ball handler.  Has the talent to be an elite defender.  He's extremely skilled and has higher BBIQ then he's given credit for.

BUT Josh Smith has never seen a shot he didn't like.  If he's got an open three he'll take it, even if he's a 25% shooter.  Even if another guy has a better shot.  Even if his three isn't really all that open. 

He also doesn't seem like he's ever really "wanted it" as much as the next guy.  Feels like he's out there to collect his cheque, have some fun, go home.  He doesn't appear to  have the competitive drive to want to win, to want to be the best he can be.

I actually agree with this, Stallion.   I think their wanting ended when they made it in the league.   Both of them take ill-advised shots, now that being said, Smith was a way better athlete.

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2016, 07:38:37 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1937
  • Tommy Points: 104
Smith reminds me somewhat of antoine walker. Just soeculating but I'm guessing he never worked at any skill of the game. Shot never improved. I mean that many years in the league and you can't develop a decent, somewhat reliable  midrange jumper. Like Toune he probably just played pick up year round.

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2016, 07:59:48 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1314
  • Tommy Points: 232
Jackin' up Jump Shots year after year, that's what happened to him.

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2016, 08:01:26 AM »

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
Ainge deserves credit for staying away from this scrub, despite all the outcry here to pursue him at all cost, including from many who defend Ainge's draft record to the death.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2016, 08:24:33 AM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7638
  • Tommy Points: 441
Smith reminds me somewhat of antoine walker. Just soeculating but I'm guessing he never worked at any skill of the game. Shot never improved. I mean that many years in the league and you can't develop a decent, somewhat reliable  midrange jumper. Like Toune he probably just played pick up year round.
TP, I always thought the same thing.  There really isn't a single wrinkle that he added to his game after the first couple of years.  That seems hard to "accomplish" after all these years in the league.

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2016, 08:37:34 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33431
  • Tommy Points: 1532
Ainge deserves credit for staying away from this scrub, despite all the outcry here to pursue him at all cost, including from many who defend Ainge's draft record to the death.
Yeah he was never going to be worth the contract he signed in Detroit (though to be fair that was a poor fit forcing him to play SF), but he wouldn't have worked out in Boston either.  Now however, I think he is worth a shot because he won't have a huge contract and if he doesn't work out Boston can just cut him, but if he has anything left, Boston could use a shot blocker/steal generator on its bench and he would actually be a pretty good compliment to KO on that second unit.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2016, 08:41:52 AM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
Smith reminds me somewhat of antoine walker. Just soeculating but I'm guessing he never worked at any skill of the game. Shot never improved. I mean that many years in the league and you can't develop a decent, somewhat reliable  midrange jumper. Like Toune he probably just played pick up year round.
TP, I always thought the same thing.  There really isn't a single wrinkle that he added to his game after the first couple of years.  That seems hard to "accomplish" after all these years in the league.

He definitely did not add.  However I think it has been a bit lost how good he really was in ATL.  Back during the big three era he played really well against us very often.  He was really good back then.

Gerald Wallace and Smith were too very dynamic players who both aged poorly since they didn't add anything to their games.  But for a time they were big impact guys in that era.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 08:47:27 AM by Snakehead »
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2016, 09:25:00 AM »

Offline manl_lui

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6571
  • Tommy Points: 427
He had a really unique play style that doesn't work in every system.  Similar to someone like Rondo.  Just doesn't work everywhere.

Bingo.

Smith reminds me a lot of Sully.

Josh Smith actually has pretty solid BBIQ and talent.  He's always been a pretty good rebounder, always had exceptional court vision and passing ability for a big man.  Always been a good ball handler.  Has the talent to be an elite defender.  He's extremely skilled and has higher BBIQ then he's given credit for.

BUT Josh Smith has never seen a shot he didn't like.  If he's got an open three he'll take it, even if he's a 25% shooter.  Even if another guy has a better shot.  Even if his three isn't really all that open. 

He also doesn't seem like he's ever really "wanted it" as much as the next guy.  Feels like he's out there to collect his cheque, have some fun, go home.  He doesn't appear to  have the competitive drive to want to win, to want to be the best he can be.

In this league the guys who lack talent but who REALLY want it, tend to beat out the guys who have talent and don't really care that much.  When he's locked in and motivated, Smith is an absolute monster -  a triple double machine.  That just doesn't come very often at all.

Hence my comparison with Sully.

You can cover up some of Josh Smith's weaknesses by playing him STRICTLY in the paint as a pure PF/C and utilizing his inside scoring, rebounding, shot-blocking and passing ability.  He can still be quite effective in that type of role.  The instant you put up at the SF spot and stand him out around the perimeter you're asking for trouble, and sadly that's what a lot of teams seem to do.

Based on talent and IQ alone, Smith should be a better version of Paul Millsap.  Instead he's drifting towards Lamar Odom minus the jump shot.

It's a path Ben Simmons may well follow along if he's not careful, as he reminds me of Josh Smith in a lot of ways.  I hope that's not the case, because that kid has a TON of promise.

I don't get how Smith and Rondo are buddy buddies and wanted to play with each other for a while but not once played with each other

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2016, 01:21:47 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11192
  • Tommy Points: 858
Ainge deserves credit for staying away from this scrub, despite all the outcry here to pursue him at all cost, including from many who defend Ainge's draft record to the death.

I always thought Josh Smith was overrated also and am glad he never ended up on the Celtics but what does Ainge's draft record have to do with it?

Re: What the heck happened to Josh Smith?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2016, 01:35:37 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1937
  • Tommy Points: 104
I thought Smith finally would be seen as a plus coming off the bench. It seemed a good fit for him since he just never improved but had some useful skills. But if you cringe every time the guy is gonna shoot and he likes to shoot it..