Anyone upset about the wasted assets?

[Moranis]

What's this thread about now?  I want to make a hot take.

Basically moranis is saying Covington is good or better than KO while also arguing that Henry Sims had good per 36 numbers before being cut by the nets, KJ mcdabiels has good 36 numbed despite being unable to crack the rotation and saying MCW has improved his efficiency or something

Is the comparing of KO to Covington intended to suggest KO is one of our wasted assets - since we used a lotto pick on him?

Nope.  That was a result of someone questioning the following analysis I made of the 2013 draft:

2013 - Olynyk (in a redraft he probably goes around 15, though ahead of most of the guys taken before him, just behind a lot of guys taken after him - so I will call this about average performance)

Thus I was challenged to support my contention that KO would go around 15.  I had initially forgotten about Dellavedova and Covington and mentioned them after a few posts, and thus we have now had 2 pages of posts comparing Covington and Olynyk.


BTW, below is my full Celtics draft analysis since Boston got good i.e. the 2008 draft to present.  The post was originally on page 3 of the thread



How many people that Ainge has drafted starting with the 2008 draft have actually overperformed?  How many were so bad they didn't even last their rookie contract?

2008 - Giddens (horrible), Erden (solid, though just 69 games total, but for pick 60 that isn't bad)
2009 - Hudson (same as Erden basically)
2010 - Bradley (overperformed), Harangody (same as Erden basically)
2011 - JJJ (horrible), Moore (overperformed - real nice value for end of 2nd round)
2012 - Sullinger (overperformed, though no longer on team), Melo (underperformed), Joseph (about average)
2013 - Olynyk (in a redraft he probably goes around 15, though ahead of most of the guys taken before him, just behind a lot of guys taken after him - so I will call this about average performance)
2014 - Smart (fairly early, but at this point looks more like the 10th pick than the 6th pick so I'll call that underperformed), Young (underperformed)
2015 - Rozier (probably too early to call Rozier), Hunter (if he gets cut then he underperformed)

In the last 8 drafts (before this past summer), Bradley, Sullinger, and Moore were excellent picks for their draft position, but that is pretty much it (and Moore was on the team for one year and Sullinger didn't get a second contract).  That is a terrible track record and the recent one is all that matters.  It doesn't matter that 10+ years ago he hit on Jefferson, Perkins, Davis, and Rondo because those drafts were so long ago (he also had a few stinkers in there some of which that actually worked out over time though not for Boston like Green and Allen). 

Put it this way, Ainge has had 3 1st round picks in those 8 drafts, play less than 1 full season combined and none of the 3 was a draft and stash player.  That is frankly unbelievable.

Ainge does a great job trading and generating future assets, but he has done a pretty poor job turning those future assets into actual assets and that is what matters far more.

[LarBrd33]

Thanks for catching me up.  I'll be surprise dropping my hot take around 5:15pm Eastern.

[kozlodoev]

Put it this way, Ainge has had 3 1st round picks in those 8 drafts, play less than 1 full season combined and none of the 3 was a draft and stash player.  That is frankly unbelievable.

You're so easy to entertain 

*yawn*

[celticsclay]

What's this thread about now?  I want to make a hot take.

Basically moranis is saying Covington is good or better than KO while also arguing that Henry Sims had good per 36 numbers before being cut by the nets, KJ mcdabiels has good 36 numbed despite being unable to crack the rotation and saying MCW has improved his efficiency or something

Is the comparing of KO to Covington intended to suggest KO is one of our wasted assets - since we used a lotto pick on him?

nah just dragging down the board

[Moranis]

Lol at Covington! Grab some popcorn fellas, Moranis is spinning his yarn.

So perhaps you can kindly explain what Kelly Olynyk has done that makes him better than Robert Covington right now?

Covington 2015-2016 stats.
PER 13.2
OWS -.1
DSW 2.1

KO 2015-2016 stats
PER 16.3
OWS 2.1
DWS 2.0

And, of course, you can add in that KO has been playing in a competitive environment while Covington has essentially been putting up stats for a glorified YMCA team.

There are more people around here than you can shake a stick at who talk like they understand basketball but then aggressively refuse to examine the most basic evidence before shooting their mouths off.

Mike

Spitting a bunch of numbers that you may or may not understand on a page isn't really explaining anything, but I'll play.

Apparently the main argument here is that Olynyk has been playing in a "competitive environment", so we should ignore the fact that he was limited to 20 mpg in a rotation where the minutes were clearly there for the taking. Or that he's a seven footer who cannot rebound or control the paint, and has no offensive came within 10 feet. In fact, an argument can be made that Covington, who has established himself as a competent 3-and-D type, can do just as fine as Olynyk in a 20-minute rotational role on a contended.

Are we ignoring the fact that since Philly has started their marvelous experiment there have been a large number of players that have seen their numbers completely crumble once leaving Philadelphia and have put up worse numbers or fallen out of the league completely since leaving? I don't get how people can ignore this fact at this point.

Look at:
MCW
Sims
Mbah a Moute
Ish Smith (between his stops, it is like a time series analysis!)
Spencer Hawes
KJ McDaniels
Tony Wroten

How can we not be extremely skeptical that anyone outside of Noel, Okafor that was on their roster last season would be able to crack another team's rotation after watching this the last few years?

Ish Smith was every bit as good in New Orleans as he was in Philadelphia, he just had more shots and more minute opportunities in Philly so his total points were higher. 

Spencer Hawes best stint ever was in Cleveland after he left Philly.

MCW just had his most efficient season ever, just less shots on a better team.  He also rebounded and assisted at around the same percentage. 

Mbah a Moute just started 61 games for the Clippers.  Last time I checked they were a pretty good team, no?

McDaniels per 36 was better in Houston than Philly and was far more efficient.  Didn't play as many minutes, but actually performed better away from Philly.

Even Sims per 36 was right around the same player in Brooklyn as he was in Philly. 

Wroten hasn't played anywhere but Philly.  Who knows what he will do, but all of your other examples, don't exactly help your cause.  In fact, they prove the exact opposite of what you think.  Yes, Philly lacks overall talent and thus role players have bigger roles and play more minutes than they would elsewhere, but pretty much across the board those role players are performing at or above their Philly level when they go to better teams, they just do so in lesser roles because those teams have more talent.

You are moderately intelligent no? If a guy can't land on an NBA roster (and he tried to like heck signing a summer league make good team) how in the world are his per 36 numbers playing for a team benching it's best two players on a 10 game losing streak relevant to anything?
Like seriously? We have a 25 year old guy that can't make an NBA roster and you are trying to talk to me about his per 36 numbers on a team that elects not to keep him on their roster...

KJ McDaniels can not stay in the Rockets rotation. He has not been good enough. Isn't that more important than what his per 36 numbers would be based on 6.5 minutes?

Wroten keeps getting cut (and by teams that desperately need talent). It means not good.

Of all of the posters on these board you drag the conversations into such nonsense because you don't accept the basic premises that if a guy can't make the league he isn't very good or if he can't crack a rotation he isn't very good. Do better pal.

You used examples of players that are in rotations of far better teams than Philly as an example that you can't trust players on Philly to be in rotations of other teams.  Your entire premise makes no sense when you use guys that are in rotations and performing at the same rates.  If you would have just said Wroten and Sims (or added in Aldemir), I wouldn't have responded, but you added in MWC, Hawes, Mbah a Moute, Smith, etc.  All guys that were in rotations and contributing about the same rate as they were in Philly.  And Wroten had a pretty devastating injury and looked terrible when he came back from said injury.  I really have no idea what type of player he might have become or may still be someday.  Injuries are always a tricky thing.

[Moranis]

Put it this way, Ainge has had 3 1st round picks in those 8 drafts, play less than 1 full season combined and none of the 3 was a draft and stash player.  That is frankly unbelievable.

You're so easy to entertain 

*yawn*

Yep.  Still don't think my analysis of Ainge's drafting has been wrong.  Maybe if I have time I will do all of Ainge's drafts (he was better before 2008 though he had plenty of misses which you can overlook because of the hits).

[celticsclay]

Lol at Covington! Grab some popcorn fellas, Moranis is spinning his yarn.

So perhaps you can kindly explain what Kelly Olynyk has done that makes him better than Robert Covington right now?

Covington 2015-2016 stats.
PER 13.2
OWS -.1
DSW 2.1

KO 2015-2016 stats
PER 16.3
OWS 2.1
DWS 2.0

And, of course, you can add in that KO has been playing in a competitive environment while Covington has essentially been putting up stats for a glorified YMCA team.

There are more people around here than you can shake a stick at who talk like they understand basketball but then aggressively refuse to examine the most basic evidence before shooting their mouths off.

Mike

Spitting a bunch of numbers that you may or may not understand on a page isn't really explaining anything, but I'll play.

Apparently the main argument here is that Olynyk has been playing in a "competitive environment", so we should ignore the fact that he was limited to 20 mpg in a rotation where the minutes were clearly there for the taking. Or that he's a seven footer who cannot rebound or control the paint, and has no offensive came within 10 feet. In fact, an argument can be made that Covington, who has established himself as a competent 3-and-D type, can do just as fine as Olynyk in a 20-minute rotational role on a contended.

Are we ignoring the fact that since Philly has started their marvelous experiment there have been a large number of players that have seen their numbers completely crumble once leaving Philadelphia and have put up worse numbers or fallen out of the league completely since leaving? I don't get how people can ignore this fact at this point.

Look at:
MCW
Sims
Mbah a Moute
Ish Smith (between his stops, it is like a time series analysis!)
Spencer Hawes
KJ McDaniels
Tony Wroten

How can we not be extremely skeptical that anyone outside of Noel, Okafor that was on their roster last season would be able to crack another team's rotation after watching this the last few years?

Ish Smith was every bit as good in New Orleans as he was in Philadelphia, he just had more shots and more minute opportunities in Philly so his total points were higher. 

Spencer Hawes best stint ever was in Cleveland after he left Philly.

MCW just had his most efficient season ever, just less shots on a better team.  He also rebounded and assisted at around the same percentage. 

Mbah a Moute just started 61 games for the Clippers.  Last time I checked they were a pretty good team, no?

McDaniels per 36 was better in Houston than Philly and was far more efficient.  Didn't play as many minutes, but actually performed better away from Philly.

Even Sims per 36 was right around the same player in Brooklyn as he was in Philly. 

Wroten hasn't played anywhere but Philly.  Who knows what he will do, but all of your other examples, don't exactly help your cause.  In fact, they prove the exact opposite of what you think.  Yes, Philly lacks overall talent and thus role players have bigger roles and play more minutes than they would elsewhere, but pretty much across the board those role players are performing at or above their Philly level when they go to better teams, they just do so in lesser roles because those teams have more talent.

You are moderately intelligent no? If a guy can't land on an NBA roster (and he tried to like heck signing a summer league make good team) how in the world are his per 36 numbers playing for a team benching it's best two players on a 10 game losing streak relevant to anything?
Like seriously? We have a 25 year old guy that can't make an NBA roster and you are trying to talk to me about his per 36 numbers on a team that elects not to keep him on their roster...

KJ McDaniels can not stay in the Rockets rotation. He has not been good enough. Isn't that more important than what his per 36 numbers would be based on 6.5 minutes?

Wroten keeps getting cut (and by teams that desperately need talent). It means not good.

Of all of the posters on these board you drag the conversations into such nonsense because you don't accept the basic premises that if a guy can't make the league he isn't very good or if he can't crack a rotation he isn't very good. Do better pal.

You used examples of players that are in rotations of far better teams than Philly as an example that you can't trust players on Philly to be in rotations of other teams.  Your entire premise makes no sense when you use guys that are in rotations and performing at the same rates.  If you would have just said Wroten and Sims (or added in Aldemir), I wouldn't have responded, but you added in MWC, Hawes, Mbah a Moute, Smith, etc.  All guys that were in rotations and contributing about the same rate as they were in Philly.  And Wroten had a pretty devastating injury and looked terrible when he came back from said injury.  I really have no idea what type of player he might have become or may still be someday.  Injuries are always a tricky thing.

Hawes went from starting on the 76ers to starting on a bad pre-lebron cavs team to coming off the bench and struggling mightily on a good clippers team to playing 18 minutes a night for the Bobcats. He was down to 9 minutes a game in their playoff series? How many minutes will he get this year with Kaminsky only seeing an increase, Marvin Williams seeing the bulk of his minutes at power forward, Zeller still playing and a presumably more durable Hibbert replacing Jefferson? He is an example of the point i am trying to make. He started on the 76ers (and pre lebron cavs) cause they didn't have any frontcourt players and put up ok raw numbers (13 points and 8 rebounds in 31 minutes). When he gets on a halfway decent team he is relegated to being a bad 2nd or 3rd string center that struggles to get minutes. It is not like it is because he is old either he is 28 and doesn't exactly rely on athleticism.

That is what happened to MCW. He went from starter to backup.

This is what happened with McDaniels (he couldn't crack the rotation)

This is what happened to wroten and sims (only they fell even further out of the league)

If you want to say Mbah a Moute was still playing great cause he got starts, i guess you can make that argument but he made the team as the 15th player and was Docs 4th attempt at a starting small forward for the Clips following the collapse of pierce, Stephenson and disappointing play from Wes Johnson. It is more a problem with the clippers that he started for them rather than him being excellent and I think most people would agree with that including Clipper Fans. Now this is a guy that was starting for the 76ers and averaging 10 points a game. He also signed for 2.2 million this offseason when backups were getting 4 times that. He is yet another player that probably will have the biggest stats and role as a part of the carnival era 76ers.

Now you think Covington is going to buck the trend and keep up his averages or be able to play 20+ minutes on a contender and the career trajectories of all these other guys (including young ones like Sims and Wroten) just don't support that.

[Donoghus]

Thanks for catching me up.  I'll be surprise dropping my hot take around 5:15pm Eastern.

My shades are on and I'm waiting.....

[LarBrd33]

What's this thread about now?  I want to make a hot take.

Basically moranis is saying Covington is good or better than KO while also arguing that Henry Sims had good per 36 numbers before being cut by the nets, KJ mcdabiels has good 36 numbed despite being unable to crack the rotation and saying MCW has improved his efficiency or something

Is the comparing of KO to Covington intended to suggest KO is one of our wasted assets - since we used a lotto pick on him?

Nope.  That was a result of someone questioning the following analysis I made of the 2013 draft:

2013 - Olynyk (in a redraft he probably goes around 15, though ahead of most of the guys taken before him, just behind a lot of guys taken after him - so I will call this about average performance)

Thus I was challenged to support my contention that KO would go around 15.  I had initially forgotten about Dellavedova and Covington and mentioned them after a few posts, and thus we have now had 2 pages of posts comparing Covington and Olynyk.


BTW, below is my full Celtics draft analysis since Boston got good i.e. the 2008 draft to present.  The post was originally on page 3 of the thread



How many people that Ainge has drafted starting with the 2008 draft have actually overperformed?  How many were so bad they didn't even last their rookie contract?

2008 - Giddens (horrible), Erden (solid, though just 69 games total, but for pick 60 that isn't bad)
2009 - Hudson (same as Erden basically)
2010 - Bradley (overperformed), Harangody (same as Erden basically)
2011 - JJJ (horrible), Moore (overperformed - real nice value for end of 2nd round)
2012 - Sullinger (overperformed, though no longer on team), Melo (underperformed), Joseph (about average)
2013 - Olynyk (in a redraft he probably goes around 15, though ahead of most of the guys taken before him, just behind a lot of guys taken after him - so I will call this about average performance)
2014 - Smart (fairly early, but at this point looks more like the 10th pick than the 6th pick so I'll call that underperformed), Young (underperformed)
2015 - Rozier (probably too early to call Rozier), Hunter (if he gets cut then he underperformed)

In the last 8 drafts (before this past summer), Bradley, Sullinger, and Moore were excellent picks for their draft position, but that is pretty much it (and Moore was on the team for one year and Sullinger didn't get a second contract).  That is a terrible track record and the recent one is all that matters.  It doesn't matter that 10+ years ago he hit on Jefferson, Perkins, Davis, and Rondo because those drafts were so long ago (he also had a few stinkers in there some of which that actually worked out over time though not for Boston like Green and Allen). 

Put it this way, Ainge has had 3 1st round picks in those 8 drafts, play less than 1 full season combined and none of the 3 was a draft and stash player.  That is frankly unbelievable.

Ainge does a great job trading and generating future assets, but he has done a pretty poor job turning those future assets into actual assets and that is what matters far more.

Your analysis is pretty accurate.

I will say that generally expectations for late 1sts are minimal.  Lots of them never amount to anything. So it's not a major disappointment that guys like fab melo didn't pan out.  And as you said, Ainge managed to grab some quality talent late in the first during the early part of his tenure (guys like rondo and perk in the 20s, big al at #15). So I guess overall we have been average drafting late.

You can't afford to blow those high picks, though.  Jury is still out on Smart and we hope for the best with brown. If this is smart's final form, that's a greater disappointment than all of our late round busts combined.  You need to hit a home dinger with a top 6 pick.

As for oly vs Covington, it's tough to say.  One is significantly better defensively while the other is significantly better offensively.

If Oly was given Convington minutes on Philly, I wouldn't be stunned to see Oly averaged 16+ points.  If Covington was given Oly minutes on Boston, he might be utilized more as a defensive role player.  Perhaps Oly would struggle to earn a consistent starring role there.  Perhaps Covington would earn a role in the starting lineup here.  Hard to say.

It's common to dismiss stats from guys on bad teams and to an extent, it makes sense.  We've seen guys like Alexey Shved show up and start putting up blank stats on a bad team and then exit the league.  In some ways it's overblown.  There's been instances of guys who put up decent stats on bad teams and then go on to put up decent stats on good teams.  Role is important.  There's always going to be guys like Eric Bledsoe and James harden who show talent off the bench and flourish once given a greater role.  That doesn't mean every scrub on a contender is a hidden star.

And while there's some instances of guys who put up inflated stats on bad teams, a lot of those guys show similar per-36 minute production when they end up on a bench.  Just because Jahlil Okafor played on a horrible team doesn't mean he's incapable of scoring on a good team. In some instances, efficiency will improve with better surrounding talent.

And then there is someone like Avery Bradley - who put up nearly identical stats on a bottom 5 Celtic team to the stats he put up on a 48 win Celtic team.  In Bradley's case, he wasn't merely productive because his team was garbage.   Bradley is more of less the same exact player he was on that bottom 5 team. What has changed is the team's success and his perceived prestige as a result.

[celticsclay]

What's this thread about now?  I want to make a hot take.

Basically moranis is saying Covington is good or better than KO while also arguing that Henry Sims had good per 36 numbers before being cut by the nets, KJ mcdabiels has good 36 numbed despite being unable to crack the rotation and saying MCW has improved his efficiency or something

Is the comparing of KO to Covington intended to suggest KO is one of our wasted assets - since we used a lotto pick on him?

Nope.  That was a result of someone questioning the following analysis I made of the 2013 draft:

2013 - Olynyk (in a redraft he probably goes around 15, though ahead of most of the guys taken before him, just behind a lot of guys taken after him - so I will call this about average performance)

Thus I was challenged to support my contention that KO would go around 15.  I had initially forgotten about Dellavedova and Covington and mentioned them after a few posts, and thus we have now had 2 pages of posts comparing Covington and Olynyk.


BTW, below is my full Celtics draft analysis since Boston got good i.e. the 2008 draft to present.  The post was originally on page 3 of the thread



How many people that Ainge has drafted starting with the 2008 draft have actually overperformed?  How many were so bad they didn't even last their rookie contract?

2008 - Giddens (horrible), Erden (solid, though just 69 games total, but for pick 60 that isn't bad)
2009 - Hudson (same as Erden basically)
2010 - Bradley (overperformed), Harangody (same as Erden basically)
2011 - JJJ (horrible), Moore (overperformed - real nice value for end of 2nd round)
2012 - Sullinger (overperformed, though no longer on team), Melo (underperformed), Joseph (about average)
2013 - Olynyk (in a redraft he probably goes around 15, though ahead of most of the guys taken before him, just behind a lot of guys taken after him - so I will call this about average performance)
2014 - Smart (fairly early, but at this point looks more like the 10th pick than the 6th pick so I'll call that underperformed), Young (underperformed)
2015 - Rozier (probably too early to call Rozier), Hunter (if he gets cut then he underperformed)

In the last 8 drafts (before this past summer), Bradley, Sullinger, and Moore were excellent picks for their draft position, but that is pretty much it (and Moore was on the team for one year and Sullinger didn't get a second contract).  That is a terrible track record and the recent one is all that matters.  It doesn't matter that 10+ years ago he hit on Jefferson, Perkins, Davis, and Rondo because those drafts were so long ago (he also had a few stinkers in there some of which that actually worked out over time though not for Boston like Green and Allen). 

Put it this way, Ainge has had 3 1st round picks in those 8 drafts, play less than 1 full season combined and none of the 3 was a draft and stash player.  That is frankly unbelievable.

Ainge does a great job trading and generating future assets, but he has done a pretty poor job turning those future assets into actual assets and that is what matters far more.

Your analysis is pretty accurate.

I will say that generally expectations for late 1sts are minimal.  Lots of them never amount to anything. So it's not a major disappointment that guys like fab melo didn't pan out.  And as you said, Ainge managed to grab some quality talent late in the first during the early part of his tenure (guys like rondo and perk in the 20s, big al at #15). So I guess overall we have been average drafting late.

You can't afford to blow those high picks, though.  Jury is still out on Smart and we hope for the best with brown. If this is smart's final form, that's a greater disappointment than all of our late round busts combined.  You need to hit a home dinger with a top 6 pick.

As for oly vs Covington, it's tough to say.  One is significantly better defensively while the other is significantly better offensively.

If Oly was given Convington minutes on Philly, I wouldn't be stunned to see Oly averaged 16+ points.  If Covington was given Oly minutes on Boston, he might be utilized more as a defensive role player.  Perhaps Oly would struggle to earn a consistent starring role there.  Perhaps Covington would earn a role in the starting lineup here.  Hard to say.

It's common to dismiss stats from guys on bad teams and to an extent, it makes sense.  We've seen guys like Alexey Shved show up and start putting up blank stats on a bad team and then exit the league.  In some ways it's overblown.  There's been instances of guys who put up decent stats on bad teams and then go on to put up decent stats on good teams.  Role is important.  There's always going to be guys like Eric Bledsoe and James harden who show talent off the bench and flourish once given a greater role.  That doesn't mean every scrub on a contender is a hidden star.

And while there's some instances of guys who put up inflated stats on bad teams, a lot of those guys show similar per-36 minute production when they end up on a bench.  Just because Jahlil Okafor played on a horrible team doesn't mean he's incapable of scoring on a good team. In some instances, efficiency will improve with better surrounding talent.

And then there is someone like Avery Bradley - who put up nearly identical stats on a bottom 5 Celtic team to the stats he put up on a 48 win Celtic team.  In Bradley's case, he wasn't merely productive because his team was garbage.   Bradley is more of less the same exact player he was on that bottom 5 team. What has changed is the team's success and his perceived prestige as a result.

This isn't a hot take. I am disappointed it is fairly reasonable. I honestly don't know what would happen with Okafor's per 36 stats on a better team and we don't need to open up that at the moment.

There is a difference in players like Okafor, Harden and Bledsoe and players like Sims, Covington, Thompson etc (and schved). The first 3 were all first rounds and bledsoe was the only one that wasn't a lottery pick (18th). These players were not passed over by 30 teams twice (while Sims, Covington and Thompson were). The second three just are not that good. It is possible that Hinkie unearthed one legit NBA player from the undrafted ranks but the idea that he has found all these undrafted players that are going to go on and play legit minutes for playoff teams is pretty laughable and shouldn't really be something that has to be pointed out.

After I have watched all the player's I mentioned have their stats and roles crater as they have left the 76ers the last few years (including several falling all the way out of the league) I really can't have much confidence that Covington or Thompson would get minutes on other NBA players and play a legit role . Moranis for whatever reason is completely convinced they will despite his earlier assertions about these players being completely off the mark (eg crowder and sims were interchangable)

[Moranis]

CC of course their minutes go down, they are role players forced into bigger roles playing on a bad team, that doesn't mean they aren't credible role players though, which seems to be the point you are arguing, yet continually support that exact point.  Time and time again, Sixers' "starters" end up performing at about the same efficiency (in lesser roles) on much better teams.  There is a reason for that, they are clearly quality NBA players, they just aren't starter level players.  Of course Covington is still on the Sixers with a major role, which should probably tell you something.

[celticsclay]

CC of course their minutes go down, they are role players forced into bigger roles playing on a bad team, that doesn't mean they aren't credible role players though, which seems to be the point you are arguing, yet continually support that exact point.  Time and time again, Sixers' "starters" end up performing at about the same efficiency (in lesser roles) on much better teams.  There is a reason for that, they are clearly quality NBA players, they just aren't starter level players.  Of course Covington is still on the Sixers with a major role, which should probably tell you something.

i mean you got sims out of the league. Wroten in an out of the league. Furkin Ademir is out of the league. McDaniels is glued to the bench with 40-50 DNP-CD for a mediocre rockets team. These were all guys that were starting for the 76ers at various points.  I would not be surprised if Hollis Thompson finds his way out of the league despite your affection for him. Similarly I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen to Covington or have him in a real bit role off the bench (5-10 minutes). You have built up all these guys and they suck. You keep doing you though moranis

[Moranis]

CC of course their minutes go down, they are role players forced into bigger roles playing on a bad team, that doesn't mean they aren't credible role players though, which seems to be the point you are arguing, yet continually support that exact point.  Time and time again, Sixers' "starters" end up performing at about the same efficiency (in lesser roles) on much better teams.  There is a reason for that, they are clearly quality NBA players, they just aren't starter level players.  Of course Covington is still on the Sixers with a major role, which should probably tell you something.

i mean you got sims out of the league. Wroten in an out of the league. Furkin Ademir is out of the league. McDaniels is glued to the bench with 40-50 DNP-CD for a mediocre rockets team. These were all guys that were starting for the 76ers at various points.  I would not be surprised if Hollis Thompson finds his way out of the league despite your affection for him. Similarly I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen to Covington or have him in a real bit role off the bench (5-10 minutes). You have built up all these guys and they suck. You keep doing you though moranis

Wroten was signed by Memphis in August, though I think he was given a non-guaranteed contract so he will have to play well to make their team (and Wroten unlike these other guys was a 1st round pick that was cut when he looked terrible after his injury).  Aldemir played 13 mpg for one season and then went back to Europe.  Sims 19 mpg for the Sixers.  We aren't talking about big minute guys.  Covington, Grant, and Thompson are not that and that is why they are still on the Sixers

[celticsclay]

CC of course their minutes go down, they are role players forced into bigger roles playing on a bad team, that doesn't mean they aren't credible role players though, which seems to be the point you are arguing, yet continually support that exact point.  Time and time again, Sixers' "starters" end up performing at about the same efficiency (in lesser roles) on much better teams.  There is a reason for that, they are clearly quality NBA players, they just aren't starter level players.  Of course Covington is still on the Sixers with a major role, which should probably tell you something.

Mcdaniels, wroten and sims played legit minutes for the 76ers and started a decent number of games. You can try and weasel out of their flame outs  by saying Thompson and Covington played a handful more minutes per game, but your just progressively wasting my time here with nonsense on people that are not very good at basketball. I'll laugh at you a year from now just like I did today with your crowder comparison to sims.
i mean you got sims out of the league. Wroten in an out of the league. Furkin Ademir is out of the league. McDaniels is glued to the bench with 40-50 DNP-CD for a mediocre rockets team. These were all guys that were starting for the 76ers at various points.  I would not be surprised if Hollis Thompson finds his way out of the league despite your affection for him. Similarly I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen to Covington or have him in a real bit role off the bench (5-10 minutes). You have built up all these guys and they suck. You keep doing you though moranis

Wroten was signed by Memphis in August, though I think he was given a non-guaranteed contract so he will have to play well to make their team (and Wroten unlike these other guys was a 1st round pick that was cut when he looked terrible after his injury).  Aldemir played 13 mpg for one season and then went back to Europe.  Sims 19 mpg for the Sixers.  We aren't talking about big minute guys.  Covington, Grant, and Thompson are not that and that is why they are still on the Sixers

[Bobshot]

Speaking of "wasted assets", on another note, the new fantasy values for '16 just came out at CDM, and Sullinger has a higher fantasy value than Amir, Olynyk and Zeller. Now, Sully did have conditioning problems, and his playoff collapse didn't figure into his fantasy value--basically points and rebounds--but it does make you wonder. Sully at his best is better than the other three, no matter how many Big Macs he eats.