Anyone upset about the wasted assets?

[spikelovetheCelts]

I actually forgot that Robert Covington and Matthew Dellavedova were undrafted but otherwise in the 2013 draft.  A fairly strong argument could be made that both would be ahead of Olynyk in a re-draft as well.

No it couldn't.  Delle is a backup pg who wouldn't start for any good team that didn't have LeBron Janes.  Covington was a marginal rotation player on one of the worst teams in league history.

Mike

Dellavedova just signed a large contract.  He has shot over 40% from three point range the last two years.  Last time I checked, Olynyk was a back-up as well, whose claim to fame is being a worse three point shooter than Dellavedova.

Covington is a SF that is a good defender (and far better than KO), currently a better rebounder, etc.  Covington shoots too many threes, but is a quality shooter from there (not as good as KO, but shoots a much higher volume playing on a worse team so doesn't have as many open/good looks as KO). 

You guys act like Olynyk is a future all star.  He isn't.  He is a back-up who barely averaged 20 minutes a game last year, and who got worse pretty much everywhere except 3 point shooter from his 2nd to 3rd year.  KO is a back-up for a reason.  That is his end game.  He will never be much more than he is now i.e. good shooting range, ok passer, but terrible rebounder and below average defender.  Maybe Delly will only ever be a back-up also, but he is a better three point shooter and a better defender.  Covington has actually shown the ability to be a respectable starter, playing starters minutes with solid production.  Yeah, the Sixers were terrible, but not all terrible teams are comprised of entirely terrible players.  Covington's skill set would transfer very well to pretty much any team.

You actually Believe this. KO would be taken by any team in the league over these two and twice on Sunday. DA is a TOP 5 GM without a doubt. We only have 15 slots he signed Green because he wants to win this year. Young will play in the NBA mark it down.

[Moranis]

Here are some re-drafts from 2015/2016.  I couldn't find many such links that gave the class at least 2 years (there were a bunch in 2014, but they still had Bennett in many of those showing that it wasn't enough time).  Some are just the top 10 or lottery

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2013-nba-draft-rewind-the-greek-freak-leaps-to-cavs-at-no-1-in-redraft/

http://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2015/6/22/8823613/nba-re-draft-2013-antetokounmpo-oladipo-bennett

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/04/04/2013-nba-redraft/

http://www.trendingtoplists.com/redrafting-the-last-20-nba-drafts-now/20

[saltlover]

have to agree that assessment is pretty biased to make a biased point. 

no one off that third list is better than KO. 

Off the second list, there's no way Zeller is taken ahead of KO.  he's not even getting minutes playing on the same team.  Plumlee, not taken before KO either.  Porter?  This kid is considered a bust for where he was picked.  if he wasn't taken so high in the draft, Washington would have traded him by now.  Even Dieng and Len are debatable.

To clarify,  the Zeller is Cody Zeller of Charlotte, who, while better than Tyler, has not had the same success as KO (but it is closer.)

thanks for the clarification and I agree, he's not had the same success as KO.

Zeller has more win shares playing on a worse team.  Bigger, better rebounder, much better defender, more points per shot, etc.  KO is a better all around offensive player and has the 3 point range Zeller does not, though as KO moves away from the basket his 2% has gotten worse as has his rebounding.  Zeller though is coming a very solid season starting for a 48 win team, which he followed up with an excellent playoff series against Miami.  KO on the otherhand is getting worse everywhere except the 3% (not that is a bad thing).  I'm very confident in a redraft that Zeller would go ahead of Olynyk, though they would be closer because Zeller wouldn't go nearly as high as he did originally.

No he hasn't.  The Hornets have more wins than the Celtics in the last three years, which matters a bit since a player's Win Shares is dependent on his team's total wins.  Meanwhile, Olynyk has a higher career PER, VORP, and BPM.

This past year it was close between them.  You could make capable arguments favoring one or the other.  The first two years, not so much.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I'm not particularly upset about the draft picks, except for the Rozier pick (when we had millions of PG's already).  However, I am quite annoyed that we haven't consolidated anything.  The asking price in the 2015 draft to move up was absurd, so I'm glad the Celtics didn't meet those demands.  But I can't imagine that the price was that high to move anywhere in the 2016 draft. 

[GratefulCs]

I actually forgot that Robert Covington and Matthew Dellavedova were undrafted but otherwise in the 2013 draft.  A fairly strong argument could be made that both would be ahead of Olynyk in a re-draft as well.

No it couldn't.  Delle is a backup pg who wouldn't start for any good team that didn't have LeBron Janes.  Covington was a marginal rotation player on one of the worst teams in league history.

Mike

Dellavedova just signed a large contract.  He has shot over 40% from three point range the last two years.  Last time I checked, Olynyk was a back-up as well, whose claim to fame is being a worse three point shooter than Dellavedova.

Covington is a SF that is a good defender (and far better than KO), currently a better rebounder, etc.  Covington shoots too many threes, but is a quality shooter from there (not as good as KO, but shoots a much higher volume playing on a worse team so doesn't have as many open/good looks as KO). 

You guys act like Olynyk is a future all star.  He isn't.  He is a back-up who barely averaged 20 minutes a game last year, and who got worse pretty much everywhere except 3 point shooter from his 2nd to 3rd year.  KO is a back-up for a reason.  That is his end game.  He will never be much more than he is now i.e. good shooting range, ok passer, but terrible rebounder and below average defender.  Maybe Delly will only ever be a back-up also, but he is a better three point shooter and a better defender.  Covington has actually shown the ability to be a respectable starter, playing starters minutes with solid production.  Yeah, the Sixers were terrible, but not all terrible teams are comprised of entirely terrible players.  Covington's skill set would transfer very well to pretty much any team.

you act like Kelly is a garbage man

[Donoghus]

Seems like extreme nitpicking to go after Ainge on late first round picks & second rounders.  As others have mentioned, you're essentially dealing with a crapshoot of talent at that point.    Certainly not worth getting worked up about, IMO.

Think its much more reasonable to judge Ainge's draft acumen on the high to mid first rounders.  Guys like Smart, Brown, next year's first rounder, etc.  Certainly going back to guys like Jefferson, Allen, G. Green, the Rondo trade, Keilly, Sully, whatever.  Those are the ones that should really be getting criticized or praised.   

Swinging & missing on #30 shouldn't move the needle much.  Obviously, it'd be nice to find those diamonds in the rough but it sure as heck isn't easy and that's illustrated pretty well when stacked up against other GMs in the league.   

The nitpicking just seems to come across as awfully petty.

[rollie mass]

couldn't have sully been traded or signed and traded later in season
-it would have been nice to get something back
did sully report their offer or just take it for a change of scenery-

[MBunge]

I actually forgot that Robert Covington and Matthew Dellavedova were undrafted but otherwise in the 2013 draft.  A fairly strong argument could be made that both would be ahead of Olynyk in a re-draft as well.

No it couldn't.  Delle is a backup pg who wouldn't start for any good team that didn't have LeBron Janes.  Covington was a marginal rotation player on one of the worst teams in league history.

Mike

Dellavedova just signed a large contract.  He has shot over 40% from three point range the last two years.  Last time I checked, Olynyk was a back-up as well, whose claim to fame is being a worse three point shooter than Dellavedova.

Covington is a SF that is a good defender (and far better than KO), currently a better rebounder, etc.  Covington shoots too many threes, but is a quality shooter from there (not as good as KO, but shoots a much higher volume playing on a worse team so doesn't have as many open/good looks as KO). 

You guys act like Olynyk is a future all star.  He isn't.  He is a back-up who barely averaged 20 minutes a game last year, and who got worse pretty much everywhere except 3 point shooter from his 2nd to 3rd year.  KO is a back-up for a reason.  That is his end game.  He will never be much more than he is now i.e. good shooting range, ok passer, but terrible rebounder and below average defender.  Maybe Delly will only ever be a back-up also, but he is a better three point shooter and a better defender.  Covington has actually shown the ability to be a respectable starter, playing starters minutes with solid production.  Yeah, the Sixers were terrible, but not all terrible teams are comprised of entirely terrible players.  Covington's skill set would transfer very well to pretty much any team.

Okay, you are just trolling now.

Mike

[incoherent]

I actually forgot that Robert Covington and Matthew Dellavedova were undrafted but otherwise in the 2013 draft.  A fairly strong argument could be made that both would be ahead of Olynyk in a re-draft as well.

No it couldn't.  Delle is a backup pg who wouldn't start for any good team that didn't have LeBron Janes.  Covington was a marginal rotation player on one of the worst teams in league history.

Mike

Dellavedova just signed a large contract.  He has shot over 40% from three point range the last two years.  Last time I checked, Olynyk was a back-up as well, whose claim to fame is being a worse three point shooter than Dellavedova.

Covington is a SF that is a good defender (and far better than KO), currently a better rebounder, etc.  Covington shoots too many threes, but is a quality shooter from there (not as good as KO, but shoots a much higher volume playing on a worse team so doesn't have as many open/good looks as KO). 

You guys act like Olynyk is a future all star.  He isn't.  He is a back-up who barely averaged 20 minutes a game last year, and who got worse pretty much everywhere except 3 point shooter from his 2nd to 3rd year.  KO is a back-up for a reason.  That is his end game.  He will never be much more than he is now i.e. good shooting range, ok passer, but terrible rebounder and below average defender.  Maybe Delly will only ever be a back-up also, but he is a better three point shooter and a better defender.  Covington has actually shown the ability to be a respectable starter, playing starters minutes with solid production.  Yeah, the Sixers were terrible, but not all terrible teams are comprised of entirely terrible players.  Covington's skill set would transfer very well to pretty much any team.

Okay, you are just trolling now.

Mike

I agree the guy is trolling.  If he is basing his argument off the fact that Delly got paid just wait and see what KO gets.  KO is the best 3pt shooting big in the game.  Dude is gonna get paid WAY more then Delly.

[kozlodoev]

I agree the guy is trolling.  If he is basing his argument off the fact that Delly got paid just wait and see what KO gets.  KO is the best 3pt shooting big in the game.  Dude is gonna get paid WAY more then Delly.

He is... if you don't count Dirk, Ryan Anderson, Chris Bosh, and Kevin Love. And then there are Scola, Frye, and Leonard that are arguably at least as good.

[Moranis]

I actually forgot that Robert Covington and Matthew Dellavedova were undrafted but otherwise in the 2013 draft.  A fairly strong argument could be made that both would be ahead of Olynyk in a re-draft as well.

No it couldn't.  Delle is a backup pg who wouldn't start for any good team that didn't have LeBron Janes.  Covington was a marginal rotation player on one of the worst teams in league history.

Mike

Dellavedova just signed a large contract.  He has shot over 40% from three point range the last two years.  Last time I checked, Olynyk was a back-up as well, whose claim to fame is being a worse three point shooter than Dellavedova.

Covington is a SF that is a good defender (and far better than KO), currently a better rebounder, etc.  Covington shoots too many threes, but is a quality shooter from there (not as good as KO, but shoots a much higher volume playing on a worse team so doesn't have as many open/good looks as KO). 

You guys act like Olynyk is a future all star.  He isn't.  He is a back-up who barely averaged 20 minutes a game last year, and who got worse pretty much everywhere except 3 point shooter from his 2nd to 3rd year.  KO is a back-up for a reason.  That is his end game.  He will never be much more than he is now i.e. good shooting range, ok passer, but terrible rebounder and below average defender.  Maybe Delly will only ever be a back-up also, but he is a better three point shooter and a better defender.  Covington has actually shown the ability to be a respectable starter, playing starters minutes with solid production.  Yeah, the Sixers were terrible, but not all terrible teams are comprised of entirely terrible players.  Covington's skill set would transfer very well to pretty much any team.

Okay, you are just trolling now.

Mike

I agree the guy is trolling.  If he is basing his argument off the fact that Delly got paid just wait and see what KO gets.  KO is the best 3pt shooting big in the game.  Dude is gonna get paid WAY more then Delly.

Delly is a better 3 point shooter and defender than Olynyk.  Olynyk doesn't do much of anything except 3 point shooting.  KO is quite good at that, but that is basically all he does.  He has no post game at all, he is becoming a progressively worse rebounder, and is a below average defender (to put it kindly).  There is a reason he barely played 20 minutes a game last year and he lost time to Jerekbo and Crowder (who played the 4 enough to be noticeable).

KO has a nice role, stretch 4 off the bench, but that is all he will ever be.  He just doesn't have the skills to be more than that.  That might get him a nice contract in the new NBA or it might not (look at what the guy that started ahead of him last year got).

[BitterJim]

I actually forgot that Robert Covington and Matthew Dellavedova were undrafted but otherwise in the 2013 draft.  A fairly strong argument could be made that both would be ahead of Olynyk in a re-draft as well.

No it couldn't.  Delle is a backup pg who wouldn't start for any good team that didn't have LeBron Janes.  Covington was a marginal rotation player on one of the worst teams in league history.

Mike

Dellavedova just signed a large contract.  He has shot over 40% from three point range the last two years.  Last time I checked, Olynyk was a back-up as well, whose claim to fame is being a worse three point shooter than Dellavedova.

Covington is a SF that is a good defender (and far better than KO), currently a better rebounder, etc.  Covington shoots too many threes, but is a quality shooter from there (not as good as KO, but shoots a much higher volume playing on a worse team so doesn't have as many open/good looks as KO). 

You guys act like Olynyk is a future all star.  He isn't.  He is a back-up who barely averaged 20 minutes a game last year, and who got worse pretty much everywhere except 3 point shooter from his 2nd to 3rd year.  KO is a back-up for a reason.  That is his end game.  He will never be much more than he is now i.e. good shooting range, ok passer, but terrible rebounder and below average defender.  Maybe Delly will only ever be a back-up also, but he is a better three point shooter and a better defender.  Covington has actually shown the ability to be a respectable starter, playing starters minutes with solid production.  Yeah, the Sixers were terrible, but not all terrible teams are comprised of entirely terrible players.  Covington's skill set would transfer very well to pretty much any team.

I would say that the player Kelly best compares to is Ryan Anderson.  Both are poor defenders (although KO had a much better DRating [103 vs 112] and DBPM [1.2 vs -1.4].  He also lead in win shares, but the Pelicans won 18 fewer games so it's meaningless), poor rebounders (Kelly is a slightly better defensive rebounder, while Anderson is a slightly better offensive rebounder), who excel at three point shooting (40.5% in 5.4 3pa/36min for Kelly and 36.6% in 6.4 3pa/36min for Anderson).  Kelly is a much better passer with 2.7 ast/36 with 1.3 for Anderson, while both have similar turnover numbers (1.9 and 1.6 per36, respectively).  Kelly is much more foul-happy, with 4.2 fper36 vs 2.0 for Anderson.  Both played less than 70 games last year (69 and 66, respectively), and started a handful (8 and 7).  The biggest difference comes in the form of minutes, with Anderson playing 30.4 and Kelly playing 20.2 per game, although the circumstances there differed, with the Celtics winning 48 games while the Pelicans only won 30.

Why is that comparison so important? Because Anderson, despite never making an All Star game (and it's doubtful that he ever will), was still recognized as a hugely valuable player, and got a 4 year, $80 million contract this summer, not bad for a backup who has only played more than 66 games in a season once (and more than both Dellavadova and Covington, despite the former's superiority at 3 point shooting [on a team with better spacing] and the latter's better defense and rebounding).  If Kelly has another year like last year, it's not unreasonable to expect that he'll be looking at similar money.

You can still believe that Kelly would be taken after players like Dellavadova and Covington in a redraft, just realize that a GM wouldn't.

Edit: Source: http://bkref.com/tiny/dyyHW

[Moranis]

In June, CBS did a re-draft KO went 16th.  Now sure Delly went 19th in that redraft, but that isn't some gigantic insurmountable gap or some crazy proposition that Delly might actually go ahead of KO in a redraft.  It also seems pretty clear based on the comments on the selections, that CBS forgot that Covington was in that draft. 

[Snakehead]

You can still believe that Kelly would be taken after players like Dellavadova and Covington in a redraft, just realize that a GM wouldn't.

That is all underselling that he is 7 feet tall.  People constantly undersell this.  Do people realize he only needs one made three pointer to be only the third 7ft + player to make 500 + three pointers in his career?  Bargnani and Dirk are the only other two.  Bargs has like 6 hundred something and Dirk is up at 1,400 plus.  There are just not players like Olynyk around at all.  He is a giant mismatch.

As well, you do discount his defense but his defense is miles better than Anderson ever has been.  Olynyk was good on defense last year.

So I support your post but think you even undersell that Olynyk is really special and certainly very primed to be a break out player.  I would easily take him over Anderson and think he has moved past him last year, with much better passing/ball handling (truly elite for a guy his size), legit defense, and he is a legit 7 footer.  Anderson is not a guy you can ever have in there at center.

[kozlodoev]

The biggest difference comes in the form of minutes, with Anderson playing 30.4 and Kelly playing 20.2 per game, although the circumstances there differed, with the Celtics winning 48 games while the Pelicans only won 30.

Anderson played 36 mpg and averaged 19 ppg on a 2013 NO team that was 12-10 in the games he was on the court. That's the type of player he was when he was deemed to be worth $20 million a year, and before injuries did him in.