Author Topic: Are you more excited about seeing Brown than you were about seeing Marcus...  (Read 39176 times)

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Offline Ilikesports17

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For me to not be disappointed in him, I'd have to see him average close to what Tyreke Evans did as a rookie:  20.1 points, 5.8 assists, 46% shooting.  That was what multiple people compared him to when he entered the league.   Tyreke Evans floor with Dwayne Wade ceiling.  He's been nowhere near that so far.  He's been a poor man's Tony Allen.

How did anyone watch Marcus Smart play at the same school as Tony Allen, putting up nearly identical numbers, with the same body type and style and say, "He looks like a cross between Tyreke Evans and Dwayne Wade?"
If they thought he was the next tony Allen, he wouldn't have gone 6th.  Julius Randle was widely believed to be a guy who, while limited defensively, could be a Zach Randolph level all star averaging 20 and 10 some day.   You don't pick Tony Allen above that.

BTW, I told people last Summer that Smart vs Randle was going to continue to be an interesting debate and people acted like I was out of my mind, because Randle missed his rookie season.  Throughout the season, I continued to believe Smart was above him.   Randle closed the gap considerably, though.   Averaged a double-double.   Per-36 numbers of 14.5 points, 13.1 rebounds.   Randle Vs Smart is a real thing.   It's going to be really interesting to see how these two develop.   Clearly Smart is on another level defensively.   Randle still looks like he could be a future Zach Randolph some day.     FWIW... NBA2k16 ratings recently came out and they have Randle with a higher Overall rating (77) than Smart (76), so there's that.
When you compare Randle's ceiling to something a bit above Smart's floor then yeah, Randle wins. Nice job.
They are both presumably at their floors.  Seems it's a tossup which floor is better.  Apparently NBA2k16 thinks Randle's floor is better, for instance.   Yet to be seen if either will improve beyond their floor.  We've only seen 1 season out of Randle.  We've seen 2 out of Smart and in some ways he regressed.
That really doesnt respond to the idea that your comparison was dumb. Right now Randle could be a Jared Sullinger level guy, while Smart has the potential to turn into a Chauncey Billups or a Mike Conley. You dont take Jared Sullinger over Chauncy Billups or Mike Conley.
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Offline LarBrd33

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For me to not be disappointed in him, I'd have to see him average close to what Tyreke Evans did as a rookie:  20.1 points, 5.8 assists, 46% shooting.  That was what multiple people compared him to when he entered the league.   Tyreke Evans floor with Dwayne Wade ceiling.  He's been nowhere near that so far.  He's been a poor man's Tony Allen.

How did anyone watch Marcus Smart play at the same school as Tony Allen, putting up nearly identical numbers, with the same body type and style and say, "He looks like a cross between Tyreke Evans and Dwayne Wade?"
If they thought he was the next tony Allen, he wouldn't have gone 6th.  Julius Randle was widely believed to be a guy who, while limited defensively, could be a Zach Randolph level all star averaging 20 and 10 some day.   You don't pick Tony Allen above that.

BTW, I told people last Summer that Smart vs Randle was going to continue to be an interesting debate and people acted like I was out of my mind, because Randle missed his rookie season.  Throughout the season, I continued to believe Smart was above him.   Randle closed the gap considerably, though.   Averaged a double-double.   Per-36 numbers of 14.5 points, 13.1 rebounds.   Randle Vs Smart is a real thing.   It's going to be really interesting to see how these two develop.   Clearly Smart is on another level defensively.   Randle still looks like he could be a future Zach Randolph some day.     FWIW... NBA2k16 ratings recently came out and they have Randle with a higher Overall rating (77) than Smart (76), so there's that.
When you compare Randle's ceiling to something a bit above Smart's floor then yeah, Randle wins. Nice job.
They are both presumably at their floors.  Seems it's a tossup which floor is better.  Apparently NBA2k16 thinks Randle's floor is better, for instance.   Yet to be seen if either will improve beyond their floor.  We've only seen 1 season out of Randle.  We've seen 2 out of Smart and in some ways he regressed.
That really doesnt respond to the idea that your comparison was dumb. Right now Randle could be a Jared Sullinger level guy, while Smart has the potential to turn into a Chauncey Billups or a Mike Conley. You dont take Jared Sullinger over Chauncy Billups or Mike Conley.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Randle is arguably better now and may be better long-term. 

Offline Ilikesports17

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For me to not be disappointed in him, I'd have to see him average close to what Tyreke Evans did as a rookie:  20.1 points, 5.8 assists, 46% shooting.  That was what multiple people compared him to when he entered the league.   Tyreke Evans floor with Dwayne Wade ceiling.  He's been nowhere near that so far.  He's been a poor man's Tony Allen.

How did anyone watch Marcus Smart play at the same school as Tony Allen, putting up nearly identical numbers, with the same body type and style and say, "He looks like a cross between Tyreke Evans and Dwayne Wade?"
If they thought he was the next tony Allen, he wouldn't have gone 6th.  Julius Randle was widely believed to be a guy who, while limited defensively, could be a Zach Randolph level all star averaging 20 and 10 some day.   You don't pick Tony Allen above that.

BTW, I told people last Summer that Smart vs Randle was going to continue to be an interesting debate and people acted like I was out of my mind, because Randle missed his rookie season.  Throughout the season, I continued to believe Smart was above him.   Randle closed the gap considerably, though.   Averaged a double-double.   Per-36 numbers of 14.5 points, 13.1 rebounds.   Randle Vs Smart is a real thing.   It's going to be really interesting to see how these two develop.   Clearly Smart is on another level defensively.   Randle still looks like he could be a future Zach Randolph some day.     FWIW... NBA2k16 ratings recently came out and they have Randle with a higher Overall rating (77) than Smart (76), so there's that.
When you compare Randle's ceiling to something a bit above Smart's floor then yeah, Randle wins. Nice job.
They are both presumably at their floors.  Seems it's a tossup which floor is better.  Apparently NBA2k16 thinks Randle's floor is better, for instance.   Yet to be seen if either will improve beyond their floor.  We've only seen 1 season out of Randle.  We've seen 2 out of Smart and in some ways he regressed.
That really doesnt respond to the idea that your comparison was dumb. Right now Randle could be a Jared Sullinger level guy, while Smart has the potential to turn into a Chauncey Billups or a Mike Conley. You dont take Jared Sullinger over Chauncy Billups or Mike Conley.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Randle is arguably better now and may be better long-term.
you wrote that you dont draft Tony Allen over the next Zach Randolph. That comparison, I felt was taking Randle's ceiling and Smart's floor. I think thats unfair to do. As I said, you also dont take Sullinger over Chauncey Billups, but thats also unfair because Randles floor looks to be about Sully and Smarts ceiling looks to be something like Chauncey Billups.

The idea that Randle might be the better player now and in the future is fine, but that example you used was misleading. Its a lot like saying Jimmy Butler isnt a superstar because he couldnt make the playoffs with a "former MVP" among other things on his squad when "former MVP" could have just as easily been replaced with "below average point gaurd" purely based on whichever descriptor better fit the narrative you chose to push. The point is fine, but the rhetoric is slimy.
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Offline crimson_stallion

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I am.

Coming out of college I was hopeful that Smart would become a Gerald Wallace type - a guy who would play hard nosed defense all day long and attack the basket with wreckless abandon.  Defensively he's been all I could hope for, offensively...not so much.

We've only seen Brown in SL so far, but what I saw in SL was the type of unstoppable force (going to the basket) that I hoped Smart would be.  The reason that excites me is two-fold:

1) The mental side - proving to us that he is absolutely willing and absolutely fearless attacking the basket. 

2) The ability - he didn't only show a willingness to get to the basket, he actually got there.  When he did, good things almost always happened.  He was among the leading rookie scorers at SL and I could swear 70% of all his points game from free throws!

So yeah, I'm excited about Brown.  Or I guess a more appropriate description would be 'cautiously optimistic".  I like what I see, but I'm also open minded enough to see the potential red-flag areas and to acknowledge that he's a risky proposition. 

But if he does work out, he could be a monster and a game changer down the road.

Offline LarBrd33

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For me to not be disappointed in him, I'd have to see him average close to what Tyreke Evans did as a rookie:  20.1 points, 5.8 assists, 46% shooting.  That was what multiple people compared him to when he entered the league.   Tyreke Evans floor with Dwayne Wade ceiling.  He's been nowhere near that so far.  He's been a poor man's Tony Allen.

How did anyone watch Marcus Smart play at the same school as Tony Allen, putting up nearly identical numbers, with the same body type and style and say, "He looks like a cross between Tyreke Evans and Dwayne Wade?"
If they thought he was the next tony Allen, he wouldn't have gone 6th.  Julius Randle was widely believed to be a guy who, while limited defensively, could be a Zach Randolph level all star averaging 20 and 10 some day.   You don't pick Tony Allen above that.

BTW, I told people last Summer that Smart vs Randle was going to continue to be an interesting debate and people acted like I was out of my mind, because Randle missed his rookie season.  Throughout the season, I continued to believe Smart was above him.   Randle closed the gap considerably, though.   Averaged a double-double.   Per-36 numbers of 14.5 points, 13.1 rebounds.   Randle Vs Smart is a real thing.   It's going to be really interesting to see how these two develop.   Clearly Smart is on another level defensively.   Randle still looks like he could be a future Zach Randolph some day.     FWIW... NBA2k16 ratings recently came out and they have Randle with a higher Overall rating (77) than Smart (76), so there's that.
When you compare Randle's ceiling to something a bit above Smart's floor then yeah, Randle wins. Nice job.
They are both presumably at their floors.  Seems it's a tossup which floor is better.  Apparently NBA2k16 thinks Randle's floor is better, for instance.   Yet to be seen if either will improve beyond their floor.  We've only seen 1 season out of Randle.  We've seen 2 out of Smart and in some ways he regressed.
That really doesnt respond to the idea that your comparison was dumb. Right now Randle could be a Jared Sullinger level guy, while Smart has the potential to turn into a Chauncey Billups or a Mike Conley. You dont take Jared Sullinger over Chauncy Billups or Mike Conley.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Randle is arguably better now and may be better long-term.
you wrote that you dont draft Tony Allen over the next Zach Randolph.
You don't draft the next Tony Allen over the next Zach Randolph. 

The comment was made that Smart basically looked exactly like Tony Allen in College and that all anyone should have expected him to become was Tony Allen:

How did anyone watch Marcus Smart play at the same school as Tony Allen, putting up nearly identical numbers, with the same body type and style and say, "He looks like a cross between Tyreke Evans and Dwayne Wade?"

... the suggestion there is that it was foolish to expect him to ever be anything more than Tony Allen long term... but obviously people expected him to be more than Tony Allen.   

My point was, if they really thought he was going to develop into the next Tony Allen, they wouldn't have taken him 6th.  Clearly they had higher expectations than him developing into the next Tony Allen.  You don't draft a guy who projects to be the next Tony Allen over a guy who projects to be the next Zach Randolph (Randle).

Not sure where you got the idea we were comparing Smart's floor to Randle's ceiling. 

Again, my comment was:  "If they thought he was the next tony Allen, he wouldn't have gone 6th."  They wanted a star there, not a long-term role player.

So basically, I disagree with what IDreamCeltic is saying.    Everyone expected more from Smart than "the next Tony Allen".   Some people were comparing him to Westbrook, Evans, Harden, Wade, etc.   He was widely thought at the time to have star potential... hence why he went 6th.  He's been a disappointment thus far.  Hopefully he makes a major leap soon.  If he peaks out at Tony Allen, that's a big disappointment considering we used a #6 pick on him.

Obviously, Smart isn't as good as Tony Allen yet and Randle isn't as good as Randolph yet.  We were always referring to what could develop into. 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 03:09:03 AM by LarBrd33 »

Offline Bucketgetter

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LarBrd33, Smart is already as good as Allen. That's where he got the "idea" that you were comparing Smart's floor to Randle's ceiling. So no, Smart is not obviously worse than Tony Allen.
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Offline LarBrd33

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LarBrd33, Smart is already as good as Allen. That's where he got the "idea" that you were comparing Smart's floor to Randle's ceiling. So no, Smart is not obviously worse than Tony Allen.
Allen in his peak was a starting guard, 1st Team All-Defense and career 48% shooter... so, no... Smart isn't on that level yet.  Hopefully he gets there.  But I'd still find it pretty disappointing if he didn't end up significantly better than Tony Allen in his prime.


Offline KG Living Legend

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 Here's the problem. If we actually did think he wouldn't be any better than Tony Allen, I say we still draft him.

 I agree we expected him to be better, but you can't knock him for drafting Tony Allen 2.0

 The fact is there was no better choice at the sixth spot in that horrible draft. Yeah I said Horrible. Wiggins and Parker were the two big names and that remains true.

 It was Randle or Smart and we chose right, especially for our needs.

 Oklahoma state producing some fine defenders though.

 Per 40 Stats College sophmore year.

 Tony Allen 20.3 ppg 7rpg 4apg 2.6 spg
                     .504% .297% .675%

        Smart. 22ppg 7.2rpg 5.8apg 3.5spg
                     .422% .299% .728%

 Same college, both sophomores, very comparable numbers with Tony having a bug advantage with Fg% probably because he's a quicker and better overall athlete than Marcus.

 Same crappy 3p%, and Smart is the slightly better defender. If the Celtics new they were getting Tony Allen all over again, I say they were fine with that plain and simple.

 Even with the benefit oh Heinsight the only guys in tge discussion at #6 in the lottery were.

 #7 Randle
 #8 Stuaskas
 #9 Vonleh
 #10 Payton
 #11 Doug Mcbuckets
 #12 Saric
 #13 Lavine

 So you tell me LB, or anyone else, who the heck do you want out if that list.



Offline LarBrd33

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 Here's the problem. If we actually did think he wouldn't be any better than Tony Allen, I say we still draft him.

 I agree we expected him to be better, but you can't knock him for drafting Tony Allen 2.0

 The fact is there was no better choice at the sixth spot in that horrible draft. Yeah I said Horrible. Wiggins and Parker were the two big names and that remains true.

 It was Randle or Smart and we chose right, especially for our needs.

 Oklahoma state producing some fine defenders though.

 Per 40 Stats College sophmore year.

 Tony Allen 20.3 ppg 7rpg 4apg 2.6 spg
                     .504% .297% .675%

        Smart. 22ppg 7.2rpg 5.8apg 3.5spg
                     .422% .299% .728%

 Same college, both sophomores, very comparable numbers with Tony having a bug advantage with Fg% probably because he's a quicker and better overall athlete than Marcus.

 Same crappy 3p%, and Smart is the slightly better defender. If the Celtics new they were getting Tony Allen all over again, I say they were fine with that plain and simple.

 Even with the benefit oh Heinsight the only guys in tge discussion at #6 in the lottery were.

 #7 Randle
 #8 Stuaskas
 #9 Vonleh
 #10 Payton
 #11 Doug Mcbuckets
 #12 Saric
 #13 Lavine

 So you tell me LB, or anyone else, who the heck do you want out if that list.
I'm still fine with the pick even though Smart right now is a poor man's Tony Allen.  He's still really young.  I'm hopeful he makes a leap next year.    It's true I wanted Randle over him, but I wasn't all that upset about the pick given our roster construction at the time.  And I'm not all that upset about the pick now.  Randle has only one season under his belt and there's a chance he doesn't make significant improvements either. 

The main point was that expectations for Smart were pretty high back in 2014.  Tony Allen was seen as a worst-case scenario... and it still is.   Most people saw him as having all-star potential.  He was believed to be an NBA-ready player who would make an impact on both ends immediately despite weak shooting in College.    He's been disappointing so far, but it's still early. 

Expectations are lower for Jaylen Brown than they were from Smart.  In-part, because he's seen as a lesser prospect than Smart was.  In-part, because fans have already been burned by Smart and have lowered expectations for Jaylen as a result.   Nobody anticipates Jaylen starting anytime next year.   For the most part, people expect that he's a long-term project that hopefully makes some defensive contributions off the bench.  This should be a top team in the East without relying on Brown so he really doesn't have any pressure to perform.  When Smart entered, he was thought to be the guy who was going to take the reigns from Rondo as "the man".  Despite expectations being lower for Brown, many of us (myself included) are more excited about Jaylen Brown than we were about Smart in 2014 or Smart in 2015.   Jaylen is more mysterious.  His age adds to his allure.  His physical attributes and potential skillset are intriguing.  Yeah, he might end up more Kedrick Brown/Gerald Green than Jimmy Butler/Tracy McGrady, but right now I'm super excited to watch what he can develop into.   Despite how either Smart or Brown were looked at by experts, I have higher hopes for the raw mystery box that is Jaylen Brown than I was for the 6'4 defensive roleplaying bricklayer that people thought could develop into a star back in 2014. 

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Here's the problem. If we actually did think he wouldn't be any better than Tony Allen, I say we still draft him.

 I agree we expected him to be better, but you can't knock him for drafting Tony Allen 2.0

 The fact is there was no better choice at the sixth spot in that horrible draft. Yeah I said Horrible. Wiggins and Parker were the two big names and that remains true.

 It was Randle or Smart and we chose right, especially for our needs.

 Oklahoma state producing some fine defenders though.

 Per 40 Stats College sophmore year.

 Tony Allen 20.3 ppg 7rpg 4apg 2.6 spg
                     .504% .297% .675%

        Smart. 22ppg 7.2rpg 5.8apg 3.5spg
                     .422% .299% .728%

 Same college, both sophomores, very comparable numbers with Tony having a bug advantage with Fg% probably because he's a quicker and better overall athlete than Marcus.

 Same crappy 3p%, and Smart is the slightly better defender. If the Celtics new they were getting Tony Allen all over again, I say they were fine with that plain and simple.

 Even with the benefit oh Heinsight the only guys in tge discussion at #6 in the lottery were.

 #7 Randle
 #8 Stuaskas
 #9 Vonleh
 #10 Payton
 #11 Doug Mcbuckets
 #12 Saric
 #13 Lavine

 So you tell me LB, or anyone else, who the heck do you want out if that list.
I'm still fine with the pick even though Smart right now is a poor man's Tony Allen.  He's still really young.  I'm hopeful he makes a leap next year.    It's true I wanted Randle over him, but I wasn't all that upset about the pick given our roster construction at the time.  And I'm not all that upset about the pick now.  Randle has only one season under his belt and there's a chance he doesn't make significant improvements either. 

The main point was that expectations for Smart were pretty high back in 2014.  Tony Allen was seen as a worst-case scenario... and it still is.   Most people saw him as having all-star potential.  He was believed to be an NBA-ready player who would make an impact on both ends immediately despite weak shooting in College.    He's been disappointing so far, but it's still early. 

Expectations are lower for Jaylen Brown than they were from Smart.  In-part, because he's seen as a lesser prospect than Smart was.  In-part, because fans have already been burned by Smart and have lowered expectations for Jaylen as a result.   Nobody anticipates Jaylen starting anytime next year.   For the most part, people expect that he's a long-term project that hopefully makes some defensive contributions off the bench.  This should be a top team in the East without relying on Brown so he really doesn't have any pressure to perform.  When Smart entered, he was thought to be the guy who was going to take the reigns from Rondo as "the man".  Despite expectations being lower for Brown, many of us (myself included) are more excited about Jaylen Brown than we were about Smart in 2014 or Smart in 2015.   Jaylen is more mysterious.  His age adds to his allure.  His physical attributes and potential skillset are intriguing.  Yeah, he might end up more Kedrick Brown/Gerald Green than Jimmy Butler/Tracy McGrady, but right now I'm super excited to watch what he can develop into.   Despite how either Smart or Brown were looked at by experts, I have higher hopes for the raw mystery box that is Jaylen Brown than I was for the 6'4 defensive roleplaying bricklayer that people thought could develop into a star back in 2014.



 Yeah but just by looking at the numbers don't you think the experts are kind of stupid for thinking that smart was going to be so much better than Tony Allen.

 I mean Allen's the better athlete, he jumps higher , he's quicker,  he's in better shape and smart shot a much worse field goal percentage for the entire year, by .82% worse. That's significant.

 If you watch Marcus Smart play in college you would know that he wasn't a true Point never was,  probably never will be just doesn't have the quickness or ball-handling ability I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so I think he's better at the 2.

 

Offline Bucketgetter

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LarBrd33, Smart is already as good as Allen. That's where he got the "idea" that you were comparing Smart's floor to Randle's ceiling. So no, Smart is not obviously worse than Tony Allen.
Allen in his peak was a starting guard, 1st Team All-Defense and career 48% shooter... so, no... Smart isn't on that level yet.  Hopefully he gets there.  But I'd still find it pretty disappointing if he didn't end up significantly better than Tony Allen in his prime.
First off, you never said Allen in his peak, so if you want to argue a point, at least make that point clear. And second, Smart is already a better offensive player than Allen ever was. Better court vision, better playmaker, better scorer.
Allen never even consistently started in all of his 6 years with the celtics, so the point that Allen eventually started on the grizzlies and Smart doesn't start right now on a team that features IT and Bradley doesn't prove anything.
As for defense, Allen was a great defender, but so is Smart. Just because Allen started winning All-Defensive team selections 7 years into his career and Smart hasn't won any so far doesn't make Allen a way better defender. All-Defense awards are very arbitrary, evident by Allen only starting to get recognized 7 years into his career. He was just as good a defender during his time on the celtics than he was when he was with the grizzlies, but you have to build up a reputation. I expect Smart to contend for All-Defense awards later in his career when he gets more playing time and more of a reputation, even though I don't expect his defense to improve that much.
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Offline CoachBo

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 Here's the problem. If we actually did think he wouldn't be any better than Tony Allen, I say we still draft him.

 I agree we expected him to be better, but you can't knock him for drafting Tony Allen 2.0

 The fact is there was no better choice at the sixth spot in that horrible draft. Yeah I said Horrible. Wiggins and Parker were the two big names and that remains true.

 It was Randle or Smart and we chose right, especially for our needs.

 Oklahoma state producing some fine defenders though.

 Per 40 Stats College sophmore year.

 Tony Allen 20.3 ppg 7rpg 4apg 2.6 spg
                     .504% .297% .675%

        Smart. 22ppg 7.2rpg 5.8apg 3.5spg
                     .422% .299% .728%

 Same college, both sophomores, very comparable numbers with Tony having a bug advantage with Fg% probably because he's a quicker and better overall athlete than Marcus.

 Same crappy 3p%, and Smart is the slightly better defender. If the Celtics new they were getting Tony Allen all over again, I say they were fine with that plain and simple.

 Even with the benefit oh Heinsight the only guys in tge discussion at #6 in the lottery were.

 #7 Randle
 #8 Stuaskas
 #9 Vonleh
 #10 Payton
 #11 Doug Mcbuckets
 #12 Saric
 #13 Lavine

 So you tell me LB, or anyone else, who the heck do you want out if that list.
I'm still fine with the pick even though Smart right now is a poor man's Tony Allen.  He's still really young.  I'm hopeful he makes a leap next year.    It's true I wanted Randle over him, but I wasn't all that upset about the pick given our roster construction at the time.  And I'm not all that upset about the pick now.  Randle has only one season under his belt and there's a chance he doesn't make significant improvements either. 

The main point was that expectations for Smart were pretty high back in 2014.  Tony Allen was seen as a worst-case scenario... and it still is.   Most people saw him as having all-star potential.  He was believed to be an NBA-ready player who would make an impact on both ends immediately despite weak shooting in College.    He's been disappointing so far, but it's still early. 

Expectations are lower for Jaylen Brown than they were from Smart.  In-part, because he's seen as a lesser prospect than Smart was.  In-part, because fans have already been burned by Smart and have lowered expectations for Jaylen as a result.   Nobody anticipates Jaylen starting anytime next year.   For the most part, people expect that he's a long-term project that hopefully makes some defensive contributions off the bench.  This should be a top team in the East without relying on Brown so he really doesn't have any pressure to perform.  When Smart entered, he was thought to be the guy who was going to take the reigns from Rondo as "the man".  Despite expectations being lower for Brown, many of us (myself included) are more excited about Jaylen Brown than we were about Smart in 2014 or Smart in 2015.   Jaylen is more mysterious.  His age adds to his allure.  His physical attributes and potential skillset are intriguing.  Yeah, he might end up more Kedrick Brown/Gerald Green than Jimmy Butler/Tracy McGrady, but right now I'm super excited to watch what he can develop into.   Despite how either Smart or Brown were looked at by experts, I have higher hopes for the raw mystery box that is Jaylen Brown than I was for the 6'4 defensive roleplaying bricklayer that people thought could develop into a star back in 2014.

Would have taken Randle then, would most assuredly take Randle now.

Brown, we'll see. He looks like a significant reach to me at 3 unless he improves dramatically scoring the basketball, but all you have to do is look at the roster to see Ainge's affection for the shooting-impaired.

We'll see on Jaylen Brown. I still would have drafted Dunn, and unloaded Smart in a deal for someone who can score the basketball.
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Offline rollie mass

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smart is part of a cadre of tough gritty defenders-these guys set the tone from the tip off forcing the refs to let them play
i think jaylen will benefit from this-
the head of the boston mob once said" i got tough guys i want smart tough guys" and thats what danny likes defensive dna,a chip on their shoulder and a relentless motor-smart tough guys

Offline Snakehead

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LarBrd33, Smart is already as good as Allen. That's where he got the "idea" that you were comparing Smart's floor to Randle's ceiling. So no, Smart is not obviously worse than Tony Allen.

The people constantly making this comparison seem not familiar with Tony Allen, which is funny considering he used to play for Boston.  The guy's game has huge flaws and Smart is better already in many respects (his ball handling and passing is way better), and shooting wise his flaw is that he shoots rather than not shooting mostly like TA.  His defense is already there.

Go take Randle and have fun.  Smart any day over him.
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Offline tankcity!

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For me to not be disappointed in him, I'd have to see him average close to what Tyreke Evans did as a rookie:  20.1 points, 5.8 assists, 46% shooting.  That was what multiple people compared him to when he entered the league.   Tyreke Evans floor with Dwayne Wade ceiling.  He's been nowhere near that so far.  He's been a poor man's Tony Allen.

How did anyone watch Marcus Smart play at the same school as Tony Allen, putting up nearly identical numbers, with the same body type and style and say, "He looks like a cross between Tyreke Evans and Dwayne Wade?"
If they thought he was the next tony Allen, he wouldn't have gone 6th.  Julius Randle was widely believed to be a guy who, while limited defensively, could be a Zach Randolph level all star averaging 20 and 10 some day.   You don't pick Tony Allen above that.

BTW, I told people last Summer that Smart vs Randle was going to continue to be an interesting debate and people acted like I was out of my mind, because Randle missed his rookie season.  Throughout the season, I continued to believe Smart was above him.   Randle closed the gap considerably, though.   Averaged a double-double.   Per-36 numbers of 14.5 points, 13.1 rebounds.   Randle Vs Smart is a real thing.   It's going to be really interesting to see how these two develop.   Clearly Smart is on another level defensively.   Randle still looks like he could be a future Zach Randolph some day.     FWIW... NBA2k16 ratings recently came out and they have Randle with a higher Overall rating (77) than Smart (76), so there's that.
When you compare Randle's ceiling to something a bit above Smart's floor then yeah, Randle wins. Nice job.
They are both presumably at their floors.  Seems it's a tossup which floor is better.  Apparently NBA2k16 thinks Randle's floor is better, for instance.   Yet to be seen if either will improve beyond their floor.  We've only seen 1 season out of Randle.  We've seen 2 out of Smart and in some ways he regressed.
That really doesnt respond to the idea that your comparison was dumb. Right now Randle could be a Jared Sullinger level guy, while Smart has the potential to turn into a Chauncey Billups or a Mike Conley. You dont take Jared Sullinger over Chauncy Billups or Mike Conley.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Randle is arguably better now and may be better long-term.
you wrote that you dont draft Tony Allen over the next Zach Randolph.
You don't draft the next Tony Allen over the next Zach Randolph. 

The comment was made that Smart basically looked exactly like Tony Allen in College and that all anyone should have expected him to become was Tony Allen:

How did anyone watch Marcus Smart play at the same school as Tony Allen, putting up nearly identical numbers, with the same body type and style and say, "He looks like a cross between Tyreke Evans and Dwayne Wade?"

... the suggestion there is that it was foolish to expect him to ever be anything more than Tony Allen long term... but obviously people expected him to be more than Tony Allen.   

My point was, if they really thought he was going to develop into the next Tony Allen, they wouldn't have taken him 6th.  Clearly they had higher expectations than him developing into the next Tony Allen.  You don't draft a guy who projects to be the next Tony Allen over a guy who projects to be the next Zach Randolph (Randle).

Not sure where you got the idea we were comparing Smart's floor to Randle's ceiling. 

Again, my comment was:  "If they thought he was the next tony Allen, he wouldn't have gone 6th."  They wanted a star there, not a long-term role player.

So basically, I disagree with what IDreamCeltic is saying.    Everyone expected more from Smart than "the next Tony Allen".   Some people were comparing him to Westbrook, Evans, Harden, Wade, etc.   He was widely thought at the time to have star potential... hence why he went 6th.  He's been a disappointment thus far.  Hopefully he makes a major leap soon.  If he peaks out at Tony Allen, that's a big disappointment considering we used a #6 pick on him.

Obviously, Smart isn't as good as Tony Allen yet and Randle isn't as good as Randolph yet.  We were always referring to what could develop into.

From what I remember, people were exploding when you compared Smart to Tony Allen during his rookie season. So in that sense, I can't imagine any of the posters really expecting Smart was going to be a future role player. TBH, I hated the pick. I never liked Smart because of his physical limitations. No vert or first step. Loved his intangibles though. I was hoping the guy could at least average 15 a game for his career but he has been a disappointment.

Also, I made a thread last year on the Smart vs. Randle debate. Thank you for bringing the truth on this board. That guy could be better. Smart wouldn't even start on the Lakers either, haha. People on this thread are blind I think. Randle is right there, if not better already. Also Randle would start on this team, while Smart doesn't as well. So again, people need to get their green goggles checked and actually hold Smart accountable. There is so much he can improve upon and hasn't.