Poll

Is it a top five offense with Okafor.

Yes
10 (16.1%)
No
46 (74.2%)
Okafor will look like Sully in Two year's
6 (9.7%)

Total Members Voted: 62

Author Topic: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor  (Read 11485 times)

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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2016, 04:56:03 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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We were 10th by ORTG last year according to basketball reference though that is deceptive as we were only somewhat above average. OKC/GSW were in their own class, then the rest of the league broke out more like a typical curve from 110s at the top to the 106ish average.

I think Okafor would hurt our offense if he played more than 20 minutes a game, not yet well rounded enough to be a net positive force offensively over starter minutes.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2016, 04:57:00 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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If you took last season's Celtics and replaced all of Olynyk's minutes with Okafor, the Celtics offense would be worse and the Celtics defense would probably be worse.
Yeah we lack shooting as is, our bigs outside games helped open things up for the C's overall. Plus I don't think he'd help our transition game.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2016, 06:04:07 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2016, 07:03:17 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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We were 10th by ORTG last year according to basketball reference though that is deceptive as we were only somewhat above average. OKC/GSW were in their own class, then the rest of the league broke out more like a typical curve from 110s at the top to the 106ish average.

I think Okafor would hurt our offense if he played more than 20 minutes a game, not yet well rounded enough to be a net positive force offensively over starter minutes.



 His dominant inside presence would most definitely improve our three point shooting. It's called inside out basketball.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2016, 07:25:55 PM »

Offline loco_91

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We were 10th by ORTG last year according to basketball reference though that is deceptive as we were only somewhat above average. OKC/GSW were in their own class, then the rest of the league broke out more like a typical curve from 110s at the top to the 106ish average.

I think Okafor would hurt our offense if he played more than 20 minutes a game, not yet well rounded enough to be a net positive force offensively over starter minutes.

 His dominant inside presence would most definitely improve our three point shooting. It's called inside out basketball.

Okafor isn't exactly known for the "out" part of inside out... his assist rate was 8.2%...

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2016, 08:57:06 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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We were 10th by ORTG last year according to basketball reference though that is deceptive as we were only somewhat above average. OKC/GSW were in their own class, then the rest of the league broke out more like a typical curve from 110s at the top to the 106ish average.

I think Okafor would hurt our offense if he played more than 20 minutes a game, not yet well rounded enough to be a net positive force offensively over starter minutes.



 His dominant inside presence would most definitely improve our three point shooting. It's called inside out basketball.
Last year Phi. shot 34.7% on 30.1 3 point attempts per 100 possessions with Okafor OFF the floor.  With Okafor ON the floor Phi. shot 32.2 % on 22.9 3 point attempts per 100 possessions.  The narrative that Okafor would help this teams offense is ridiculous.  He would clog the lane, slow the pace and force you to run your offense through him.  I.T.'s penetration would be hindered, cutters wouldn't find as many open lanes, and the 3 point attempts would drop a lot.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2016, 10:14:29 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Sigh. This guy just isn't that good.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2016, 10:25:08 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Well stated, Oracle, loco and Faf.  It's just hard to see this guy being a positive unless he adds skills in passing and perimeter shooting.  There's no guarantee he'll ever be significantly better at either of those skills.

I don't want to take that gamble and suffer through the growing pains.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2016, 04:56:16 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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We were 10th by ORTG last year according to basketball reference though that is deceptive as we were only somewhat above average. OKC/GSW were in their own class, then the rest of the league broke out more like a typical curve from 110s at the top to the 106ish average.

I think Okafor would hurt our offense if he played more than 20 minutes a game, not yet well rounded enough to be a net positive force offensively over starter minutes.



 His dominant inside presence would most definitely improve our three point shooting. It's called inside out basketball.
Last year Phi. shot 34.7% on 30.1 3 point attempts per 100 possessions with Okafor OFF the floor.  With Okafor ON the floor Phi. shot 32.2 % on 22.9 3 point attempts per 100 possessions.  The narrative that Okafor would help this teams offense is ridiculous.  He would clog the lane, slow the pace and force you to run your offense through him.  I.T.'s penetration would be hindered, cutters wouldn't find as many open lanes, and the 3 point attempts would drop a lot.



 Are We talking about Philly? Not the Celtics, man.... We talking about Philly.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2016, 09:27:37 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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We were 10th by ORTG last year according to basketball reference though that is deceptive as we were only somewhat above average. OKC/GSW were in their own class, then the rest of the league broke out more like a typical curve from 110s at the top to the 106ish average.

I think Okafor would hurt our offense if he played more than 20 minutes a game, not yet well rounded enough to be a net positive force offensively over starter minutes.



 His dominant inside presence would most definitely improve our three point shooting. It's called inside out basketball.
Okafor isn't a good passer out of the post. Its one of the biggest flaws in his game at the NBA level. He wasn't bad in college from what I recall though, should develop.

Additionally from a roster standpoint we lack shooting at the guard/wing positions overall. So we are less able to take advantage of what kick outs he would generate effectively.

I don't recall him screening or rolling well either when I watched him play, though I will freely admit that was limited to a few of the C's games and maybe one or two other random quarters throughout the season.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2016, 09:55:25 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Okafor is a pretty good mid-range shooter.  Would have been better at it that virtually every Celtic on the team.  From 3-10' he shot 46.3%, only Amir Johnson was better from that range last year (including Horford).  From 10-16' Okafor shot 35.3%, basically on par with Horford and behind Thomas, Smart, and Johnson (but ahead of everyone else in a potential rotation).  From 16' to 3 pointers, Okafor is only better than Olynyk and Jerekbo, and he was a terrible 3 point shooter, but only about 9% of his shots were from those two ranges.

So, Okafor doesn't have three point range, but is a pretty credible shooter from 3 to 16'.  He would likely clog the lane a bit, but you could set him on the elbow or baseline and he could be very effective. 

His AST% is pretty low at 8.2% (though some of that could be who he was passing to), but he doesn't turn it over very much at only 12.5% given his USG% of over 27%.  That is particularly good when you consider he was a rookie bigman on one of the worst teams in NBA history.

The interior post skills are there and he has a nice shooting touch as evident by his 3-16' game and respectable foul shooting.  He is a pretty poor rebounder and his defense was atrocious (though I think he has the skills to be a lot better on that end of the floor).  I think he would improve the offense overall though because he provides skills that no one else on the team has i.e. the ability to score inside in traffic in the paint and step out to the elbow/baseline and drain shots.  No other current Celtic has those traits.
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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2016, 11:30:00 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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The main concerns are that he doesn't shoot it beyond 16 feet, has an extremely low rate of his shots assisted, and doesn't pass the ball very much.  This adds up to making him a classic "black hole" player.  His skills don't lend themselves to an offense that relies on ball movement and finding the open man.  The numbers so far have shown that he is a drain on offense rather than a boon.


I don't think his game lends itself to being a role player, and I'd prefer not to have to watch an offense built around having him chew up possessions in the paint.   Unproductive, not to mention painfully ugly basketball.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2016, 12:04:38 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Okafor is a pretty good mid-range shooter.  Would have been better at it that virtually every Celtic on the team.  From 3-10' he shot 46.3%, only Amir Johnson was better from that range last year (including Horford).  From 10-16' Okafor shot 35.3%, basically on par with Horford and behind Thomas, Smart, and Johnson (but ahead of everyone else in a potential rotation).  From 16' to 3 pointers, Okafor is only better than Olynyk and Jerekbo, and he was a terrible 3 point shooter, but only about 9% of his shots were from those two ranges.

So, Okafor doesn't have three point range, but is a pretty credible shooter from 3 to 16'.  He would likely clog the lane a bit, but you could set him on the elbow or baseline and he could be very effective. 

His AST% is pretty low at 8.2% (though some of that could be who he was passing to), but he doesn't turn it over very much at only 12.5% given his USG% of over 27%.  That is particularly good when you consider he was a rookie bigman on one of the worst teams in NBA history.

The interior post skills are there and he has a nice shooting touch as evident by his 3-16' game and respectable foul shooting.  He is a pretty poor rebounder and his defense was atrocious (though I think he has the skills to be a lot better on that end of the floor).  I think he would improve the offense overall though because he provides skills that no one else on the team has i.e. the ability to score inside in traffic in the paint and step out to the elbow/baseline and drain shots.  No other current Celtic has those traits.


 Excellent analysis Moranis Tp.

 You summed it up much better mid range shooter than advertised.

 My point is if you were Okafor by far the most talented scorer on the team and you played with a bucket of nothing's would you pass the ball to them? I wouldn't.

 I think I have seen Okafor play more than most and what I have seen is a Complete basketball player on the Offensive Side.

 He Can pass, absolutely. And if you put him on the Celtics you will see that proven.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2016, 12:20:15 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Okafor is a pretty good mid-range shooter.  Would have been better at it that virtually every Celtic on the team.  From 3-10' he shot 46.3%, only Amir Johnson was better from that range last year (including Horford).  From 10-16' Okafor shot 35.3%, basically on par with Horford and behind Thomas, Smart, and Johnson (but ahead of everyone else in a potential rotation).  From 16' to 3 pointers, Okafor is only better than Olynyk and Jerekbo, and he was a terrible 3 point shooter, but only about 9% of his shots were from those two ranges.

So, Okafor doesn't have three point range, but is a pretty credible shooter from 3 to 16'.  He would likely clog the lane a bit, but you could set him on the elbow or baseline and he could be very effective. 

His AST% is pretty low at 8.2% (though some of that could be who he was passing to), but he doesn't turn it over very much at only 12.5% given his USG% of over 27%.  That is particularly good when you consider he was a rookie bigman on one of the worst teams in NBA history.

The interior post skills are there and he has a nice shooting touch as evident by his 3-16' game and respectable foul shooting.  He is a pretty poor rebounder and his defense was atrocious (though I think he has the skills to be a lot better on that end of the floor).  I think he would improve the offense overall though because he provides skills that no one else on the team has i.e. the ability to score inside in traffic in the paint and step out to the elbow/baseline and drain shots.  No other current Celtic has those traits.


 Excellent analysis Moranis Tp.

 You summed it up much better mid range shooter than advertised.

 My point is if you were Okafor by far the most talented scorer on the team and you played with a bucket of nothing's would you pass the ball to them? I wouldn't.

 I think I have seen Okafor play more than most and what I have seen is a Complete basketball player on the Offensive Side.

 He Can pass, absolutely. And if you put him on the Celtics you will see that proven.

You say he's a "complete basketball player" offensively, but the numbers incontrovertibly show otherwise.  If you said "he's a very good low post player who can improve in other offensive areas," I could accept that.  But "complete," that's just inaccurate.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2016, 03:04:42 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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 Tp, Big. Not sure why so many hate on Okafor. He's 20 showed great promise as a rookie, is a much better post player already than Horford and that's saying something.

 I think his upside is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan, and if that happens you can build an offense around that no matter what era.

He played on the worst team in the NBA, and that team was worse (not just a little bit worse, a LOT worse) on both ends of the court when he was playing.

* He's slow and poorly conditioned
* He has a horrible attitude
* He's got poor court feel (Noel, of all people, had a better Ast:TO ratio)
* He is completely lacking in flexibility (back to the basket center is the only role he can play, and he can only defend one position)
* He lacks range on his jumper
* He is, statistically, the worst defensive center in the entire NBA

He's a poor man's Al Jefferson / Greg Monroe, but with a significantly lower motor and a terrible attitude and worse conditioning.

I don't see how you could possible have so much difficulty understanding why people don't want him in Boston.   
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 03:12:01 AM by crimson_stallion »