Poll

Is it a top five offense with Okafor.

Yes
10 (16.1%)
No
46 (74.2%)
Okafor will look like Sully in Two year's
6 (9.7%)

Total Members Voted: 62

Author Topic: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor  (Read 11483 times)

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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2016, 01:46:45 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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nope. I feel his game would clog the paint, unless we get more shooters. Only then will he improve our offense. Is it enough to trounce his horrid D? I dont think so.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2016, 02:13:38 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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 I really think most people are judging him negatively for playing on Philly. The guy threw down the jersey in disgust after he was drafted. The dude is a champion he led Duke his freshman year to a title and he was the best player on the team by far. If you surround him with Al Horford Jae Crowder Marcus Smart Avery Bradley Isaiah Thomas the dude is going to destroy teams you watch anybody besides Philly that gets this kid is going to be very happy for a long time and I hope it's the Celtics.

The part in bold tell me all I need to know about how you feel about Okafor. 

No offense intended, but when say a rookie threw his jersey down in disgust on draft day, and then call that same guy a "champion" right after - that seems to scream of bias to me.

When you come in the the NBA as a rookie, you're almost always going to find yourself on a crap team - that's the whole idea of the draft lottery.  I don't care what team you end up on, you should be proud that you even made it to the NBA, you should be over the moon with the gigantic salary you're making, and you should have absolute respect for the team that drafted you - knowing that they chose you.

For a draftee to "The guy threw down the jersey in disgust" after being drafted, that is absolutely disgraceful, and it speaks worlds about the horrible, horrible attitude Okafor has.

Ben Simmons could be the most hyped rookie to come into the league since Lebron - did he behave that way when selected by Philly?  Hell no.  He's said nothing but good things about the team ever since.

As for the original question, the answer is no. 

Jahlil Okafor simply isn't that good an offensive player right now.  He's got potential, but he has WAY too many flaws in his game for him to have a positive impact on either end of the court in his current state of development.  He played on the worst team in the NBA last year, and every advanced stat showed that he made that team WORSE when he was on the court, not better. 

This is not one of those "Demarcus Cousins" scenarios, where the team was really bad when he was on the bench, but actually pretty respectable when he was on the court.  No, Philly was significantly better on both ends of the court when Okafor was sitting on the bench.

We probably have a better chance at being a top 5 offense without Okafor then we do with him.   When / if he gets his head together and develops (mentally and in terms of basketball) then maybe we could revisit this question, but for now it's a big"hell no". 


  We had a top 10 team in the NBA - we'd be lucky to improve at all offensively by adding Okafor

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2016, 07:41:39 PM »

Online Big333223

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 I really think most people are judging him negatively for playing on Philly. The guy threw down the jersey in disgust after he was drafted. The dude is a champion he led Duke his freshman year to a title and he was the best player on the team by far. If you surround him with Al Horford Jae Crowder Marcus Smart Avery Bradley Isaiah Thomas the dude is going to destroy teams you watch anybody besides Philly that gets this kid is going to be very happy for a long time and I hope it's the Celtics.

The part in bold tell me all I need to know about how you feel about Okafor. 

No offense intended, but when say a rookie threw his jersey down in disgust on draft day, and then call that same guy a "champion" right after - that seems to scream of bias to me.

When you come in the the NBA as a rookie, you're almost always going to find yourself on a crap team - that's the whole idea of the draft lottery.  I don't care what team you end up on, you should be proud that you even made it to the NBA, you should be over the moon with the gigantic salary you're making, and you should have absolute respect for the team that drafted you - knowing that they chose you.

For a draftee to "The guy threw down the jersey in disgust" after being drafted, that is absolutely disgraceful, and it speaks worlds about the horrible, horrible attitude Okafor has.

Ben Simmons could be the most hyped rookie to come into the league since Lebron - did he behave that way when selected by Philly?  Hell no.  He's said nothing but good things about the team ever since.
Agree with all of that. His attitude is as big of a question as anything in his game.
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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2016, 10:35:15 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I'm not sure Okafor is nearly enough to make them top 5 offense. What is more likely is they would be better offensively with him, and better defensively with Noel.

There has been a lot of Okafor vs Noel analysis lately in the media, and the data shows Noel makes Philly better defensively. And, I believe, Okafor makes them better offensively. What's missing is Noel has one more year of NBA experience than Okafor, so there is less certainty of Okafor's upside.

I don't think the Celtics can go wrong with either Okafor or Noel. I see them as weak up front defensively and offensively, so either would help.

In my view, Ainge will never win a championship with the current guys he has up front around Horford. Al is good, but he's 30, and has benefitted from Millsap alongside him in Atlanta. He doesn't have that luxury in Boston.
We were top 5 last year in points scored already.  Our FG% and 3P% were pretty terrible, though.

Horford should help a bit with that.  Both his FG% and 3P% were higher than our team average last year.     

Okafor would help as well.  He's already proven he can score pretty efficiently with zero help.  Imagine him with actual talent surrounding him.

Problem is, we still lack consistent shooting and we can't really properly guess what the team would like like with Okafor without knowing what we would have to give up to acquire Okafor.  Like I said before, if a theoretical package required sending Avery Bradley, that's going to be a decent hit to our offense since Bradley was one of our best shooters.   I guess this thought experiment is based on the idea that we'd add Okafor without giving up anything.   Doing that, the team offense would be improved.  How much improved depends on how you are defining the top offenses.

One thing that hurts their FG% is they have no inside players with high FG%. Okafor would change that. They desperately need an inside player who can rebound and shoot close to the basket. In that sense, Okafor would be preferred over Noel.

I'm not sure how this thing is going to play out. Will Philly pull the string when they are convinced Embiid is OK?  When will that be? How much do they want? Is Ainge really interested in Okafor or Noel? Noel is obviously interested in Boston. You would think so, but then Danny goes off and throws $8 million at Zeller, a guy who is a classic backup. Still wondering what he was doing in SD besides photographing whales.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2016, 03:13:47 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 I really think most people are judging him negatively for playing on Philly. The guy threw down the jersey in disgust after he was drafted. The dude is a champion he led Duke his freshman year to a title and he was the best player on the team by far. If you surround him with Al Horford Jae Crowder Marcus Smart Avery Bradley Isaiah Thomas the dude is going to destroy teams you watch anybody besides Philly that gets this kid is going to be very happy for a long time and I hope it's the Celtics.

The part in bold tell me all I need to know about how you feel about Okafor. 

No offense intended, but when say a rookie threw his jersey down in disgust on draft day, and then call that same guy a "champion" right after - that seems to scream of bias to me.

When you come in the the NBA as a rookie, you're almost always going to find yourself on a crap team - that's the whole idea of the draft lottery.  I don't care what team you end up on, you should be proud that you even made it to the NBA, you should be over the moon with the gigantic salary you're making, and you should have absolute respect for the team that drafted you - knowing that they chose you.

For a draftee to "The guy threw down the jersey in disgust" after being drafted, that is absolutely disgraceful, and it speaks worlds about the horrible, horrible attitude Okafor has.

Ben Simmons could be the most hyped rookie to come into the league since Lebron - did he behave that way when selected by Philly?  Hell no.  He's said nothing but good things about the team ever since.
Agree with all of that. His attitude is as big of a question as anything in his game.


 The guy was literally a champion before he got to Philly. Ben Simmons was pathetic as a winner in college.


 Oh Come on. Put yourselves in his shoes you just won a championship by carrying a team on your back and one of the top players in the country and now you're going to Philadelphia a team that tanks unprecedently four years in a row and we're in the middle of the tank while they drafted you.

 Simmons at least gets there for the end of the tank where it all comes together and Simmons isn't a champion he's a self-entitled spoiled brat, that didn't even make the tournament, let alone win it.

 I'm sure that was his nightmare scenario he must have figured that the Lakers would take him second behind towns and the worst possible scenario was him going to Philly 3rd. You'd be salty too if you went from being the very best in college basketball to a team that barely wins any games at all and is not even trying to win the game let's be honest.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 03:32:49 AM by KG Living Legend »

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2016, 03:31:21 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Bottom line is Thomas, Horford, and Okafor Is a potent one two three combination that we currently can't match. Crowder and CV Bradley are the perfect role players to fill out a very well balanced starting five.

 If we can get Okafor without giving up a starter it's a win.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2016, 05:47:26 PM »

Online Big333223

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 Bottom line is Thomas, Horford, and Okafor Is a potent one two three combination that we currently can't match. Crowder and CV Bradley are the perfect role players to fill out a very well balanced starting five.

 If we can get Okafor without giving up a starter it's a win.
I have real concerns about his attitude, but yes, getting Okafor for some of these guys who will never get playing time makes sense.
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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2016, 05:54:26 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Tp, Big. Not sure why so many hate on Okafor. He's 20 showed great promise as a rookie, is a much better post player already than Horford and that's saying something.

 I think his upside is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan, and if that happens you can build an offense around that no matter what era.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2016, 06:59:13 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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 Tp, Big. Not sure why so many hate on Okafor. He's 20 showed great promise as a rookie, is a much better post player already than Horford and that's saying something.

 I think his upside is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan, and if that happens you can build an offense around that no matter what era.

We "hate" on him because there is such a large store of evidence to suggest that while he is a talented low post scorer, his skills may never translate to actually being very useful for an NBA offense.

It has been frequently pointed out that the Seventy-Sixers were actually considerably worse offensively when he was on the floor than when he was off it.  There may be some basketball reasons for this that go beyond; "well, it was the Sixers.  Everything that happened was meaningless. 

Okafor has a hefty usage percentage.  Along with that, he has a very low assist percentage.  Additionally, according to basketball reference, only 41% of his baskets were assisted.  That's the lowest number in the league among big men who played significant minutes last year.

Taken together, these stats show a guy who chews up a ton of possessions that normally end in a shot for himself.  He's not much of an off-the-ball contributor either as a catch-and-shooter or as a rim roller.  Nor is he much of a passer when double teamed in the post

Some of the above realities can possibly be blamed on the dysfunction of the Sixers, but it also seems likely much of it is simply due to what Jahlil Okafor is as a player. 

In conclusion, for me, while Okafor is clearly a talented low post scorer, I have no interest in seeing him bring his ugly and inefficient brand of basketball to the Celtics.  There's only one basketball, and I don't want to see it in Jah's hands most of the time while the rest of the team clears out and watches him go to work, knowing there's not much use waiting on a kick out which isn't coming.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 09:43:05 PM by Celtics18 »
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2016, 07:15:03 PM »

Offline loco_91

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No, not even close. He wouldn't even be a starter.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2016, 07:48:00 PM »

Online Moranis

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No, not even close. He wouldn't even be a starter.
I think he'd start with Horford and Johnson would be the 1st big off the bench (for either Horford or Okafor depending on how they are doing).
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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2016, 11:29:05 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2016, 12:40:14 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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No, not even close. He wouldn't even be a starter.
I think he'd start with Horford and Johnson would be the 1st big off the bench (for either Horford or Okafor depending on how they are doing).



 TP Moranis, for being honest. We started David Lee and Tyler Zeller last year, Amir and Horford are perfect bigs  to play with him. Kelly would provide great spacing.

 Amir or Kelly can't hold a candle to Okafors talent.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2016, 04:39:29 PM »

Online Big333223

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 Tp, Big. Not sure why so many hate on Okafor. He's 20 showed great promise as a rookie, is a much better post player already than Horford and that's saying something.

 I think his upside is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan, and if that happens you can build an offense around that no matter what era.
To be honest, he's not very high on my list of guys I'd pursue, though. While he might be a better post scorer than Horford, Horford is still a better offensive player out of the post because he's so much better of a distributor. You can run an offense through Horford in ways Okafor has not shown the ability to handle.

So maybe having Horford is an argument to go get Okafor and hope that Horford can mentor Okafor in passing (and defense, and professionalism...) but right now, to my eye, he projects as a specialist. But one who would immediately be better than a lot of the youngsters currently on the C's roster and one with a decently high ceiling.
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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2016, 04:49:18 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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If you took last season's Celtics and replaced all of Olynyk's minutes with Okafor, the Celtics offense would be worse and the Celtics defense would probably be worse.
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